Warren Magazine Reading Club! 7 7

[Axe Elf]

On 7/24/2022 at 12:36 AM, OtherEric said:

My copy of the issue is from the John G. Fantucchio pedigree.  Fantucchio actually drew a couple stories for Warren later, in Creepy #34 and Vampirella #5.

Interesting stuff.  It looks great, too!

On 7/24/2022 at 12:36 AM, OtherEric said:

I'm going with the view that this one was pure Wood, since Adkins's claim of assistance has been contested.  (Details at the GCD entry for the book, if anybody is interested.)

Good work!

I'm interested:

Pencils credit from Richard Arndt via his Complete Warren Magazines index (www.enjolrasworld.com).

Former Wood assistant, Ralph Reese, strongly disputes Adkins having anything to do with this story. In Fantagraphic's "Atomic Bomb and Other Stories, Illustrated by Wally Wood" (2020), Reese emphatically recalled this story as "some of his (Wood's) best work from that time......that was one that he completely did himself, and I don't think he even had anybody artograph the airplanes for him." When asked by Thommy Burns (for this Fantagraphics' volume) for any additional comments regarding Adkin's claims on this story, Reese added: The "Battle of Britain!" story was a labor of love for Wood, and, as I remember it, he (Wood) wouldn't let anyone else touch it."

Another Wood assistant, Paul Kirchner, states: "A lot of assistants give the impression that they did more work than they did. This has given Wood no small amount of grief. He always has control."

Thus a ? has been placed next to any Adkins credits on this piece. There is too much controversy re this story to completely verify the true situation.

[Axe Elf]

I actually read the first four stories of Blazing Combat #3 last Saturday, and while none of them really caught my eye or captured my imagination at the time, I was a little surprised to find that I didn't remember any of them by the time I went back to finish the issue today!  So I think it's safe to say that I enjoyed this issue the least of the Blazing Combat series so far, but it did have some bright spots as well.  Chief among them would be the number and variety of sprawling combat scenes rendered by the various artists.  Jungles, cityscapes, rivers, deserts, clouds and oceans are all depicted full of battle action:

Other than the stunning art, though, the stories all seemed a little weaker than normal, unfortunately.

"Special Forces" struck me much like the first story in Blazing Combat 1--not so much a story with a beginning, middle and end as it is a snapshot of one day in an endless stream of combat days.  Get up, do your duty, go to bed, and repeat until dead.

"Foragers" made me wonder how historically accurate it is--but it wouldn't surprise me if it was.  War gives license to man's baser instincts.

"U-Boat" at least had a little irony, with the Germans shooting the "traitor" just as they were themselves destroyed.

I'm not sure I get "Survival."  It was working just fine until the end, when the guy shows remorse for killing the "invaders" because one of them turns out to be a woman.  I guess I just don't buy why that would upset our hero so much.  I can't imagine he's really concerned about the survival of the species at that point; it seems like he would be more happy to eliminate any threat to his OWN survival than that he would have some sense of altruistic duty to repopulate the planet or something.  Maybe if it had been his wife he killed in a paranoid rage--from whom he had been separated in the original apocalypse or something--but just some stranger?  Doubtful.

Again, I wonder about the historical accuracy of "Battle of Britain."  Other stories in the Blazing Combat series have been based in historical fact, so I suspect this one might be as well--but if so, what a faux pas by Hitler to call off a winning strategy in favor of one that ultimately lost him the battle!

"Waterhole" has got to be the dumbest Warren story yet, across all three titles we have read.  I was literally looking to see if my copy was missing a page, the way it ended (or didn't end?).  Both sides got down to their last man--even though the Apaches seemed to be clearly winning--and then the lone Apache appears to be surrendering...  and the cowboy breaks out laughing...  aaand curtain.  WTF???

"Souvenirs" was probably the best story of the issue (and of course I love seeing more Severin art), and helped to redeem the issue after the "Waterhole" and "Survival" nonsense.  The lines between good and evil can be blurred beyond recognition in war, and this story of one man's avarice being mistaken for heroism highlights those ironies.  It was a solid tale of mixed morals.

Like @OtherEric, I also only missed one question on the Combat Quiz--the one about the 442nd Combat Team.  To be fair, I guessed on the Burp Gun question, and flipped a coin between the B17 and the B29 being the "flying fortress" as well, but still...

And I don't remember seeing the $5 printing press advertised before!  Cool!

[OtherEric]

On 7/28/2022 at 5:08 PM, Axe Elf said:

Other than the stunning art, though, the stories all seemed a little weaker than normal, unfortunately.

I think this may be the single issue you and I have disagreed the most on so far during the reading club.  I agreed with the index that this was a "fine, fine issue"; and think it might be the best of the Blazing Combat issues, with the stories trying slightly different directions and being all the stronger for that.  But as I've said before, if everybody enjoyed the same things it would be a boring world indeed.

[Axe Elf]

On 7/29/2022 at 5:19 PM, OtherEric said:

I think this may be the single issue you and I have disagreed the most on so far during the reading club.  I agreed with the index that this was a "fine, fine issue"; and think it might be the best of the Blazing Combat issues, with the stories trying slightly different directions and being all the stronger for that.  But as I've said before, if everybody enjoyed the same things it would be a boring world indeed.

I do kind of agree with you in that respect.  The issue did a fine job of covering a variety of combat situations, including non-traditional "wars" (as in "Survival").  I would also agree that the stories did a good job of highlighting unique perspectives and storytelling devices outside the usual.

It's just that subjective level of enjoyment that didn't quite rise to the level of the first two books--and for me, I think it's because a couple of those unique tales just didn't make that much sense to me--I either didn't get the twist, or didn't understand the characters' motivations.

I think the whole Blazing Combat series stands alone at the top of the war comics food chain for many of the reasons you mentioned; but this was the "least of the best" so far, for me.

And again, keep in mind that I'm not treating my reviews as opinions that should be adopted by others, I'm just sharing my own reactions for better or worse, and talking about them.  But there's no, "You're an insufficiently_thoughtful_person if you liked Blazing Combat #3" or any other such connotation.  It's just Axe Elf's least-favorite Blazing Combat so far, that's all.

[OtherEric]

On 7/29/2022 at 3:27 PM, Axe Elf said:

I do kind of agree with you in that respect.  The issue did a fine job of covering a variety of combat situations, including non-traditional "wars" (as in "Survival").  I would also agree that the stories did a good job of highlighting unique perspectives and storytelling devices outside the usual.

It's just that subjective level of enjoyment that didn't quite rise to the level of the first two books--and for me, I think it's because a couple of those unique tales just didn't make that much sense to me--I either didn't get the twist, or didn't understand the characters' motivations.

I think the whole Blazing Combat series stands alone at the top of the war comics food chain for many of the reasons you mentioned; but this was the "least of the best" so far, for me.

And again, keep in mind that I'm not treating my reviews as opinions that should be adopted by others, I'm just sharing my own reactions for better or worse, and talking about them.  But there's no, "You're an insufficiently_thoughtful_person if you liked Blazing Combat #3" or any other such connotation.  It's just Axe Elf's least-favorite Blazing Combat so far, that's all.

Agreed, neither of our reviews should be taken as gospel by anybody.  But I do think that we can sometimes make others see stories in a different perspective, either better or worse, and that has a lot of value as well.  In that regard, our reactions being further apart than has been typical so far is actually good... this would get boring if we agreed on everything!

And for the record, I don't personally think Blazing Combat is at the top of the war comics food chain.  If I had to choose one or the other I would say Frontline Combat is the better book.  But the difference is fine enough that I won't argue with anybody who puts Blazing Combat first.  I would have fun arguing with anybody who doesn't have those in the 1-2 positions in some order, though!  (For me, Two-Fisted Tales is third, the Enemy Ace stories are fourth, and I don't have terribly strong feelings beyond that point.)

[Axe Elf]

Well, I typically don't like war comics at all, but the perspective Warren took was unique and I respect it.  I hear that I would probably feel the same about Two-Fisted Tales, but I haven't explored them yet.  So "top of the war comics food chain" is a pretty low bar for me, due to unfamiliarity to some extent, but also largely disinterest.

[Axe Elf]

EERIE #3 - May 1966

According to the Warren Magazine Index...

3. cover: Frank Frazetta (May 1966)

1) Cousin Eerie’s Introduction [Archie Goodwin/Jack Davis] 1p   [frontis]

2) Soul Of Horror! [Archie Goodwin/Angelo Torres] 8p

3) The Lighthouse! [Archie Goodwin/Al Williamson] 6p

4) Room With A View! [Archie Goodwin/Steve Ditko] 6p

5) Monsterwork! [Archie Goodwin/Rocco Mastroserio] 6p

6) Under The Skin! [Archie Goodwin/Jerry Grandenetti & Joe Orlando] 7p   [art credited solely to Orlando]

7) Eerie’s Monster Gallery No. 2: The Vampire! [Archie Goodwin/Johnny Craig] 1p   [art credited to Jay Taycee]

8) The Monument [Archie Goodwin/Alex Toth] 6p

9) Full Fathom Fright [Archie Goodwin/Gene Colan] 8p

10) Easy Way To A Tuff Surfboard! [Archie Goodwin/Frank Frazetta] ½p   [anti-smoking ad on inside back cover]

Notes: A strong issue led off with Frazetta’s cover depicting an undersea monster and a diver.  All of the art jobs were good but particular note should be given to Angelo Torres, Steve Ditko and Alex Toth.  My favorite story is ‘Room With A View’ partly because when I was a kid, the first Warren comic I read was a coverless Eerie #42, which reprinted this story.  It was the first story I read in the book and the one that gave me nightmares for several days after.  It features sharp art by Ditko with a simple but compelling story by Goodwin. The anti-smoking ad by Goodwin & Frazetta was publisher Jim Warren’s reaction to cigarette companies offering him high paying advertising to target his 14-18 year old readers.  It effectively stopped the offers.  It should be noted that Warren stuck to his guns on this issue, even during the Dark Age years from 1967-1969 when he could have easily caved in and rescued his magazines with cigarette ad revenues.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I really have high hopes for this issue.  Not only because I've been a little disappointed in the last two books we've read--although that's certainly on my mind--but I have a soft spot for this cover, to begin with.  It was recycled as the cover of CREEPY #97, but back when I bought it off the rack in high school, I didn't know it was a reprint--it was just a cool cover.  It's one of the 7 original CREEPYs that survived to spark my Warren collection earlier this year.  So while it doesn't really have anything to do with the magazine itself or the stories within, I HOPE that the issue that bears the original printing of one of my fondest Frazettas is a good one.

It's nice to see that the guy writing the Index also has some cover-related nostalgia for this issue. 

And it gives me another level of respect for Jim Warren to read this about his stance against the marketing of tobacco products to teens--and actively engaging Frazetta in combatting those messages.  He sure used his platform to make his voice heard--and didn't sell out or compromise, even when that would have been much easier--with tobacco advertising or with the pushback against Blazing Combat that was happening about this time as well.

And Steve Ditko?  Wasn't he like a big contributor at Marvel also?

Edited July 31, 2022 by Axe Elf

[OtherEric]

Eerie #3 thoughts

Cover:  One of the absolute classic Warren covers by Frazetta... which is admittedly not that small a group, but this still stands out from the pack.

Frontispiece:  Nice work by Jack Davis, it's a shame he didn't do more for Warren... but I've said that repeatedly.

Soul of Horror:  Not the most original plot, but it's one that's always incredibly spooky, and well done by Goodwin and Torres.

The Lighthouse:  A fairly trite "punish the descendant" plot, elevated by Williamson's artwork.

Room with a View:  We welcome Steve Ditko to Warren.  Goodwin had a solid grasp of how to write stories that highlighted Ditko's legendary talents for weirdness.  This is a good point to highlight just how many incredible artists were working for Warren at this point... Frazetta, Wood, Ditko, Toth, and Williamson are all names that could easily make a list of top 10 comic artists of all time.  I'm not sure they're all on my list if I ever broke down and created it, but they're all solid candidates.  

Monsterwork:  A fairly straightforward story with a predictable twist, but well done.  Rocco Mastroserio is not an artist I'm that familiar with, and I've never been terribly impressed with what I have seen of his stuff at Charlton, but he does solid work here.

Under the Skin:  This one is far more Grandetti than Orlando, and honestly I've never warmed to Grandetti's artwork.

Eerie's Monster Gallery:  Not bad art as such from Johnny Craig, but it seems poorly staged to me.  It looks more like a story panel than a pin-up; the exact opposite of the common complaint about lots of other artists.

The Monument:  A good and unusual story from Goodwin, but the art by Toth, while good, seems less inspired than most of their collaborations so far.

Full Fathom Fright:  Very nice art by Colon, and a slightly unusual story structure elevates what could have been a fairly routine piece.

Easy Way to a Tuff Surfboard:  Very nice Frazetta art on a public service ad from Warren.  I think this may be Frazetta's last sequential art.   Get used to seeing this one a lot, though..

All in all, a very strong issue, but no stories that jump out as all-time classics in my opinion.

 

[OtherEric]

On 7/30/2022 at 10:01 PM, Axe Elf said:

And Steve Ditko?  Wasn't he like a big contributor at Marvel also?

This issue hit the stands the same month as Ditko's antepenultimate issues of Amazing Spider-Man and Strange Tales, it's entirely possible given a reduced lead time on the Warren magazines (they don't have to go through a coloring stage, and the smaller size of the operation in general) this was Ditko's first work after leaving Marvel.

[Axe Elf]

On 7/31/2022 at 12:35 AM, OtherEric said:

All in all, a very strong issue, but no stories that jump out as all-time classics in my opinion.

Well, if things keep going like they have, that means I'll treasure every story!

heh  j/k...  great review as always!

[Axe Elf]

We've been doing this for about three months now, and we sure get a lot of views for a thread that is dominated by two people (who aren't even fighting!).

I'd just like to reiterate my invitation for anyone to comment on any issue or even any story in any issue that they may have fond memories of or reactions to, if they're secretly reading along with us!

You don't have to be a charter member or a regular contributor for your thoughts to be welcome!

Edited July 31, 2022 by Axe Elf

[Axe Elf]

Awesome!  I've seen the Jerk 100 times and never noticed that!

[The Lions Den]

On 7/29/2022 at 6:46 PM, Axe Elf said:

Well, I typically don't like war comics at all, but the perspective Warren took was unique and I respect it.

The Fantagraphics Blazing Combat anthology contains excellent interviews with both Jim Warren and Archie Goodwin, and it does shed some light on their respective perspectives.  I don't know if you've read it or not, but it's worth seeking out.

And both you and OtherEric are approaching this whole process in a very professional manner---a sincere well done to both of you!   

[The Lions Den]

On 7/31/2022 at 1:35 AM, OtherEric said:

All in all, a very strong issue, but no stories that jump out as all-time classics in my opinion.

"Room with a View" would be my nomination. Ditko apparently had an "Axe" to grind with his former employer, and his work here shows what he could do in the less restrictive black and white format...        

[OtherEric]

On 7/31/2022 at 10:04 AM, King Farce said:

A rip-off of this painting is shown in The Jerk, when he's moving into his gaudy mansion. You can see Bernadette Peters in the lower left.

I think I've seen that mentioned before, but had forgotten the details.

Also, welcome to the forums!

[OtherEric]

On 7/31/2022 at 6:01 PM, The Lions Den said:

"Room with a View" would be my nomination. Ditko apparently had an "Axe" to grind with his former employer, and his work here shows what he could do in the less restrictive black and white format...        

Agreed, but I don't think this is necessarily the story that shows that to best effect.  He's got 15 more stories in the next 15 issues of Creepy & Eerie, so we'll see some more great work from him over the next few months of the reading group. 

[Jayman]

On 7/31/2022 at 11:58 PM, OtherEric said:

Agreed, but I don't think this is necessarily the story that shows that to best effect.  He's got 15 more stories in the next 15 issues of Creepy & Eerie, so we'll see some more great work from him over the next few months of the reading group. 

With some of THE BEST wash-tone artwork ever in comics! Blew me away as a kid thinking, Ditko can do this? 

[Axe Elf]

Sorry I'm so late again this week.  I read the book Monday, then my wife broke her femur Tuesday, had surgery and it's been a difficult recovery, in and out of ICU all week and I've spent a lot of time at the hospital.  It's one thing to post philosophy in the Water Cooler from my phone while sitting at my wife's side in the hospital, but I couldn't really write my book report from there.  But I have a little time at home today, so here we go!

Most importantly, my high hopes were NOT disappointed!  This may be the first book we've read that really felt like a Warren to me--or at least reproduced in me the same feelings that made me like Warren as a teen.  The stories were a little less formulaic, the stable of artists is expanding, and it just feels like the publishing group as a whole is hitting its stride with this whole horror comic magazine format thing.

And then there were some delightful Easter eggs too!

For starters, I probably wouldn't have noticed this if I hadn't been recently posting the Dark Horse EERIE run in my gallery last week, but I commented there on how almost all of the back covers in that series were various Bernie Wrightson depictions of Cousin Eerie.  But for some reason, the last one (the back cover of issue #8) appeared to be a Jack Davis depiction of Cousin Eerie instead.  ????

Aaand then when I opened the cover of EERIE #3 on Monday, there it was again!

I don't know if it was intentional or not, but here we have one of our first visual introductions to Cousin Eerie (ok, it's not technically his first appearance, but it's close), and it ironically ends up also being the final image published in any incarnation of the EERIE series (so far)!

It's not like they have Cousin Eerie saying goodbye or anything, though; he's just commenting on the contents of the issue, as if he has no idea it will be his last appearance--so maybe it's just a coincidence?  But why did they do 7 original Bernie Wrightson's renditions of Cousin Eerie for the first 7 back covers, and then suddenly on #8, they go way back and reprint the Jack Davis frontispiece from Warren issue #3 on what oh by the way turns out to be the final issue of EERIE ever?

EERIE, indeed!

So I was already delighted--with the Frazetta cover I remember from a CREEPY of my youth--and now with the "easter egg" frontispiece--and I haven't even gotten to the contents yet!

I did manage to get past the Contents without any further squeals of glee, only to be fascinated by the response to the first letter asking why EERIE #2 wasn't EERIE #1:

"Using some of our backlog material"?  I thought "backlog" meant it had already been printed; the stories in EERIE #1 weren't printed until later CREEPYs.

"Published nationally"?  "Sold throughout the country?" "Various selected cities?"  I've heard that there were only like 200 copies published and they were distributed at a few different newsstands across New York, but I've never heard of any national distribution in various cities throughout the country.  You think this is just a little more Warren tapdancing for the lawyers?

Also liked the suggestion from "Bambi" that "Uncle Eerie" and "Cousin Creepy" sound better than the other way around. 

And now, the stories...

I loved the deeply-shadowed art throughout "Soul of Horror"; it just made the story that much darker.  And even though the plot pretty much followed the direction you would expect, there were nice touches thrown in, like the crows chasing souls of the recently departed.

Again, nice foggy art in "The Lighthouse."  A little "wronged dead returns for vengeance" sort of thing, but combining a spiritual and a physical return keeps it from being too formulaic.

I was maybe expecting a little too much from the Steve Ditko piece, "Room With a View," after someone was commenting on how good it was in an earlier post--but I wasn't blown away by it.  Maybe he was referring to the wash tones in subsequent appearances.  The story was fun, though, and the images in the mirror were imaginative.  I can definitely see the Marvel flavor in them!

I believe we have the introduction of a new artist in "Monsterwork!"  Some of the panels are really interesting.

If would-be Frankensteins learned anything from the movie "Young Frankenstein," it should have been to screen your brains more thoroughly before just dropping one at random into a body.  Of course, "Young Frankenstein" would not be released for another 8 years or so, so we can hardly blame the Doc here.

"Under the Skin" was a pretty unique story, based more in psychological horror than the supernatural, which lent it an air of possibility that you don't get from the monster stories.

"Jay Taycee" was back for the Monster Gallery, but while I've appreciated his work in the last few books, a single page (really only a single panel) didn't give me enough to get too excited about--but as I mentioned upon first encountering his work back in EERIE #2, he sure can draw women from the rear view!

"The Monument" might be the least believable story in the book--would the architect really create his dream home only to have it programmed to embalm him alive the first time he laid down on the bed?  He didn't seem particularly suicidal.  But it was a fun story up to the end.

I think "Full Fathom Fright" introduced another new artist, Gene Colan?  But his style seems familiar, so maybe he was still doing art for Warren later in the series too.  And of course this is the story upon which the Frazetta cover is based.  It was an engaging story, but I wasn't real impressed by the monster.

And as someone said earlier--get used to seeing the Frazetta anti-smoking ad.  There it is again inside the back cover!

So this is one of my favorite issues, if not the strongest issue overall so far!

[OtherEric]

On 8/5/2022 at 3:49 PM, Axe Elf said:

I think "Full Fathom Fright" introduced another new artist, Gene Colan?  But his style seems familiar, so maybe he was still doing art for Warren later in the series too.  And of course this is the story upon which the Frazetta cover is based.  It was an engaging story, but I wasn't real impressed by the monster.

 

Gene Colan has been in a few issues we covered, although generally credited as Eugene Colan.  Every other publisher he's normally credited as Gene.  Or Adam Austin.  As you noticed Gene is how he signed the splash page, unlike the table of contents where he's listed as Eugene.

[Axe Elf]

On 8/5/2022 at 7:10 PM, OtherEric said:

Gene Colan has been in a few issues we covered, although generally credited as Eugene Colan.  Every other publisher he's normally credited as Gene.  Or Adam Austin.  As you noticed Gene is how he signed the splash page, unlike the table of contents where he's listed as Eugene.

Okay, I just didn't recognize the name.