Axe Elf Posted March 24 Author Share Posted March 24 On 3/24/2024 at 12:08 AM, OtherEric said: Cover: A very odd piece by Ken Smith, I'm torn if it's supposed to be a portrait of Uncle Creepy or not. Interesting thought; I had never really looked at it that way, but it kind of works as one, in an abstract psychedelic kind of way. I was curious myself which, if any, of the interior stories the cover might be referencing, but the closest-sounding title would probably be "Extra Censory Perception"? It's kind of an odd Warren cover in that there isn't any "teaser" text anywhere on the cover as to what might be awaiting a prospective reader inside. "WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOUR THIRD EYE GETS DETACHED? Find out on page 37!" or something like that... On 3/24/2024 at 12:08 AM, OtherEric said: Part of it is a response to the Altamont Free Concert Ooo, I'm always up for some juicy historical perspective! OtherEric and The Lions Den 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtherEric Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 On 3/23/2024 at 11:03 PM, Axe Elf said: Ooo, I'm always up for some juicy historical perspective! I'll elaborate once you read the story; it's not impossible I'm assuming facts not in evidence saying that. But I really think it has to have been on McGregor's mind when the story was created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 On 3/24/2024 at 1:08 AM, OtherEric said: The Thing in Loch Ness: The Warren debut of Bruce Jones, who is better known as a writer but has a lot of art credits as well. I always thought his art style was heavily influenced by EC artists like Frazetta and Williamson. Still, it's always nice to see his artwork, and his storytelling became first rate as time went on... Axe Elf, Stevemmg, Ken Aldred and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtherEric Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 On 3/24/2024 at 6:48 PM, The Lions Den said: I always thought his art style was heavily influenced by EC artists like Frazetta and Williamson. Still, it's always nice to see his artwork, and his storytelling became first rate as time went on... His art in this issue is definitely highly influenced by the Fleagle Gang, that's for sure. The Lions Den and Axe Elf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 On 3/24/2024 at 8:48 PM, The Lions Den said: I always thought his art style was heavily influenced by EC artists like Frazetta and Williamson. Still, it's always nice to see his artwork, and his storytelling became first rate as time went on... On 3/24/2024 at 9:05 PM, OtherEric said: His art in this issue is definitely highly influenced by the Fleagle Gang, that's for sure. I almost mentioned in my "100th Issue" intro that I have also gained a lot of collateral information regarding EC Comics as a precursor to the Warren mags over the course of this journey as well--and these kinds of posts are the reason why! I'm glad I'm not tempted to COLLECT EC Comics themselves, given that they all seem to be worth hundreds of dollars even in fairly poor conditions, but I appreciate having the cloud of contextual information to draw from. The Lions Den and OtherEric 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtherEric Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 On 3/24/2024 at 9:08 PM, Axe Elf said: I almost mentioned in my "100th Issue" intro that I have also gained a lot of collateral information regarding EC Comics as a precursor to the Warren mags over the course of this journey as well--and these kinds of posts are the reason why! I'm glad I'm not tempted to COLLECT EC Comics themselves, given that they all seem to be worth hundreds of dollars even in fairly poor conditions, but I appreciate having the cloud of contextual information to draw from. There are a lot of quite affordable EC's still; if you look. But yeah, most of their more famous stuff- the Horror and SF books- are definitely getting expensive. Reprints of almost everything are readily available, at least. Axe Elf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 On 3/24/2024 at 11:12 PM, OtherEric said: There are a lot of quite affordable EC's still; if you look. But yeah, most of their more famous stuff- the Horror and SF books- are definitely getting expensive. Reprints of almost everything are readily available, at least. I'll make do with digital copies (and that giant tome on the History of EC Comics)! The Lions Den and OtherEric 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted March 26 Author Share Posted March 26 On 3/24/2024 at 1:18 AM, OtherEric said: I'll elaborate once you read the story Ok, I went ahead and read "A Tangible Hatred" so you wouldn't have to wait all week to share your thoughts. The floor is yours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtherEric Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 On 3/25/2024 at 8:27 PM, Axe Elf said: Ok, I went ahead and read "A Tangible Hatred" so you wouldn't have to wait all week to share your thoughts. The floor is yours... The Altamont Free Concert was the infamous festival at the Altamont Speedway where they hired Hell's Angels for security and they wound up killing Meredith Hunter, an 18 year old concertgoer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamont_Free_Concert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Meredith_Hunter It's been described as the end of the 60's, and is referenced in the song "American Pie". Incidentally, "American Pie" was recorded on May 26, 1971, and Mike's Amazing World has this issue of Creepy going on sale June 29, 1971... so an awareness of the incident was clearly still in the air at this point, the story was being worked on at the same time the song was. And the ugliness of Altamont in contrast to Woodstock four months earlier was clearly informing the idea of getting concertgoers to actually believe in the words of the songs they were listening to. It's actually a very powerful and effective idea, I'm just not sure how well the story manages to convey it. I think that it doesn't really mesh well with the story's other interesting idea, the contrast between the young, idealistic cop and the cynical veteran cop. It's like the story develops and then drops the conflict between them, describing it as a truce half a page after one of them hits the other. Anyway, that's why I think that part of the story was directly inspired by Altamont, hopefully the references clear up why I feel that way. Jayman and The Lions Den 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that The Rolling Stones refused to play “Sympathy for the Devil” in concert for years after that incident as the stabbing happened during that song as they were preforming it. The Lions Den and OtherEric 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 Sorry, @OtherEric, I didn't mean to leave you hanging. There was just a lot going on with that story and I had to let it percolate a little to figure out what I wanted to say about it. I mean, I knew about Altamont (and saw "Gimme Shelter" in college), so I wasn't oblivious to the historical context, but I was curious about the perspective you would bring to it. Here are my thoughts... First of all, I was put off by three misspelled words in the opening block of text, but I try not to let things like that distract me as much any more. The script as a whole, though, was readable and told a comprehensible story--it just had parts that were absurd and parts that were profound, and I don't think that was intentional, but it kind of plays well with the theme of duality--love/hate, cynicism/optimism--that permeates the story in general. On the absurd side, you have the "tangible hatred" character itself--where did it begin its journey to the music festival? What spawned it? Why did it need to hitchhike to the music festival instead of just appearing there? And why a music festival anyway? I mean, before Altamont, the emblem for music festivals had been the peaceful Woodstock event--you'd think a being that fed on hate would go to like a war zone somewhere or something, not at a predominantly good-natured event. Even at Altamont, the hate really wasn't coming from the concertgoers in general--it wasn't that the hippies didn't believe in the songs of love they were singing--it was the Hell's Angels that were responsible for the violence, and they don't even pretend to be bastions of decency. So yeah, the violence at Altamont probably had a hand in setting the climax of this story at a music festival rather than a more hateful setting, but it's kind of absurd to blame the creature on the hypocrisy of the audience. On the profound side, you have the theme that plays just as well today as it did back then--that we would all be better off if we would figuratively join hands and cooperate, rather than dividing ourselves through prejudice and hate. And also the device of having the creature destroy every last bastion of hate at the concert--even one of the cops--suggests that even the "good" guys can be just as bad as anyone else. So there's quite a few moral and ethical questions that are suggested by the story--and it left me with a lot to think about--so those are both good things. And then the Richard Corben art. I really really like his style, and it occurred to me that like the script itself, his art is both absurd and profound at the same time. I don't believe Corben even thinks in black and white; his meticulous shadings look more like colored art that has been reduced down to black and white than monochrome drawings. So it wasn't a perfect story, but it was a good story, for sure--and it carried a little more weight than most Warren stories. OtherEric, Jayman and The Lions Den 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtherEric Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 On 3/27/2024 at 5:21 PM, Axe Elf said: Sorry, @OtherEric, I didn't mean to leave you hanging. There was just a lot going on with that story and I had to let it percolate a little to figure out what I wanted to say about it. I mean, I knew about Altamont (and saw "Gimme Shelter" in college), so I wasn't oblivious to the historical context, but I was curious about the perspective you would bring to it. Here are my thoughts... First of all, I was put off by three misspelled words in the opening block of text, but I try not to let things like that distract me as much any more. The script as a whole, though, was readable and told a comprehensible story--it just had parts that were absurd and parts that were profound, and I don't think that was intentional, but it kind of plays well with the theme of duality--love/hate, cynicism/optimism--that permeates the story in general. On the absurd side, you have the "tangible hatred" character itself--where did it begin its journey to the music festival? What spawned it? Why did it need to hitchhike to the music festival instead of just appearing there? And why a music festival anyway? I mean, before Altamont, the emblem for music festivals had been the peaceful Woodstock event--you'd think a being that fed on hate would go to like a war zone somewhere or something, not at a predominantly good-natured event. Even at Altamont, the hate really wasn't coming from the concertgoers in general--it wasn't that the hippies didn't believe in the songs of love they were singing--it was the Hell's Angels that were responsible for the violence, and they don't even pretend to be bastions of decency. So yeah, the violence at Altamont probably had a hand in setting the climax of this story at a music festival rather than a more hateful setting, but it's kind of absurd to blame the creature on the hypocrisy of the audience. On the profound side, you have the theme that plays just as well today as it did back then--that we would all be better off if we would figuratively join hands and cooperate, rather than dividing ourselves through prejudice and hate. And also the device of having the creature destroy every last bastion of hate at the concert--even one of the cops--suggests that even the "good" guys can be just as bad as anyone else. So there's quite a few moral and ethical questions that are suggested by the story--and it left me with a lot to think about--so those are both good things. And then the Richard Corben art. I really really like his style, and it occurred to me that like the script itself, his art is both absurd and profound at the same time. I don't believe Corben even thinks in black and white; his meticulous shadings look more like colored art that has been reduced down to black and white than monochrome drawings. So it wasn't a perfect story, but it was a good story, for sure--and it carried a little more weight than most Warren stories. Thank you, Axe Elf. I think my appreciation for the story has gone up seeing your comments. I agree that the Music Festival seems like an odd target in isolation; the only way it really makes sense to me is as a reaction to Altamont. Completely agreed that Corben seems inherently suited to color more than B&W, there's a reason that a huge percentage of the Color Sections we eventually get in the Warrens are by Corben. Jayman, Axe Elf and The Lions Den 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 On 3/28/2024 at 12:45 AM, OtherEric said: Thank you, Axe Elf. I think my appreciation for the story has gone up seeing your comments. I agree that the Music Festival seems like an odd target in isolation; the only way it really makes sense to me is as a reaction to Altamont. Completely agreed that Corben seems inherently suited to color more than B&W, there's a reason that a huge percentage of the Color Sections we eventually get in the Warrens are by Corben. He's one of my favorites... Jayman, OtherEric and Axe Elf 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 On 3/28/2024 at 10:19 PM, The Lions Den said: He's one of my favorites... OtherEric, Axe Elf and The Lions Den 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtherEric Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 If we're going that route... The Lions Den and Jayman 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted March 29 Author Share Posted March 29 Besides being cool and psychedelic, the cover to CREEPY #41 is unique in a couple of ways. First of all, as previously mentioned, it doesn't have any "teaser text" on the cover regarding any of the issue's content (except for the generic "First and Best in Illustrated Horror" text above the logo). This is only the second issue we have seen like that so far, with the first being the "Rock God" cover to CREEPY #32. I didn't look closely at all of the next 100 issues, but a cursory glance through my cover gallery leads me to believe that teaserless covers are as rare as hen's teeth throughout the run. The cover is also unique in the fact that it seems to be completely unrelated to anything inside the issue (which kind of supports @OtherEric's theory that it was inspired by Uncle Creepy himself). Unrelated covers aren't as unique as the teaserless ones, but they are still kind of unusual. "CREEPY's Loathsome Lore" continued the tradition from the Annual of using color inside the front cover, although again it's only the red ink that gets used. Thanks to @OtherEric for fact-checking the subject matter; I didn't know that was the origin of the word "derrick." "Dear Uncle Creepy" was kind of interesting in places; it sounds like they wanted to have John G. Fantucchio do more artwork, but weren't able to locate him! And there were some interesting comments about Ken Kelley's cover painting also being used for a panel in "The Secret of the Haunted Room" from CREEPY #38. There was a request for more Adam Link stories, and some complaining about having to pay so much for CREEPY. Listen pal, if you think sixty cents is bad, wait 30 or 40 years... As usual, the most interesting part of the "CREEPY Fan Club" was the artist bio, this time regarding Gary Kaufman. He's not one of my favorite artists, but the bios are always interesting and often humorous, as this one is. The fan art was sparse this time around, and the fan fiction was even more ridiculous than usual, if that's possible. One even made me laugh out loud, as it started out with some reasonable premise about monsters in the sewers, but then it was like the author just got tired of the story and ended it abruptly--"Then more monsters land in every country in the world, and as the years of horror pass, they eventually accomplish their goal of taking over the world. The End." "The Thing in Loch Ness" was a pretty solid debut for Bruce Jones, both in script and in artwork. In fact, if he wasn't sharing the issue with Wally Wood and Richard Corben, his art probably would have been the best of the issue. There was one little scripting glitch, though, which makes me think that "Laferty's Tavern" must have originally been "MacLaird's Tavern" before Jones changed it for some reason. It kind of threw me off when the guy who was run down in the road was called "John McLaird," but he was supposed to be the owner of "Laferty's Tavern," and when we see the body again later underwater, he is now called "Laferty." So there was probably a name change somewhere along the line that wasn't ever updated in one of the panels critical to the story: I respect the ambition behind "Skipper's Return," even if the story itself was a little silly. I know there are times when progress depends on animal testing, but it should always be as humane as possible--and there are times when it is probably not even necessary. So there are some heavy issues here (as with the "Tangible Hatred" story), but I think they are trivialized by the silliness of the story's climax. It took hundreds if not thousands of scientists and technicians to coordinate the launch of a Saturn rocket, but Skipper the Chimp is able to strap in the doctor and accomplish his launch into space all by his lonesome. You'd think if he was THAT intelligent, he would have progressed beyond the primitive urge for revenge. I almost always enjoy Colon's occasionally trippy art, but he should probably let someone else handle the scripting. "The Final Ingredient" is the third straight solo effort, this time with Bill DuBay handling the art and story. Again, I think a fairly enjoyable read was marred by a dumb ending. I smiled at all the little touches, like the witch's recipes being in rhyme, or the black cat hissing and jumping away as the witch calls for the "claw of black cat," but there was no talk of a "love potion" also making people immortal (well, unless you count stuff like "Now he'll be mine forever!") until they were ten feet away from the trap that would take their heads. And even then, just being immortal doesn't mean they wouldn't feel their heads being chopped off--they'd probably have to go back to find them, instead of just talking out of their neck stumps for the rest of eternity. I wonder if they will miss their heads when they go to kiss? How can they even see where they are going?? I didn't get the same disconnected feeling about "Prelude to Armageddon" that @OtherEric described. In fact, I really liked this story a lot--between the Wood art and a script that actually made sense all the way through, it could be the best story of the issue--though perhaps not the most weighty or thought-provoking. As a general fan of fantasy, though, the sprawling epic of centaurs and minotaurs and nymphs and ogres illustrated by Wood was a fabulous read, and then to tie it to the pre-history of Earth, before the ogres evolved into mankind, was a nice twist. "Extra Censory Perception" was pretty lightweight, both in its artwork and in its subject matter (and its titular pun); just a little throwaway filler piece between the meatier Wood and Corben vehicles--but it served to give a sample of Kaufman's work in the issue that contained his bio. I noticed that the artist in the story looks a little like Kaufman's self-portrait on the Fan Page (and they both wear ties), so I wonder if that's what he was going for--putting himself into his story. And I already discussed "A Tangible Hatred" in detail earlier this week, so I won't rehash it again. Overall, I would say this is a fairly strong issue, but largely for its art. Most of the stories suffered from one plot hole or another, but most were also either entertaining or thought-provoking aside from those errors, so I can excuse some of its warts. The Lions Den, OtherEric and Jayman 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 On 3/24/2024 at 1:00 AM, Axe Elf said: CREEPY #41 - September 1971 I always thought of this cover art as being the Tangible Hatred from the Corben story. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Elf Posted March 30 Author Share Posted March 30 (edited) On 3/29/2024 at 8:30 PM, Jayman said: I always thought of this cover art as being the Tangible Hatred from the Corben story. Maybe. But it looks less like that character than Uncle Creepy, and it isn't a dead ringer for him, either. Given that most, if not all, of the Kenneth Smith covers we've seen (CREEPY 1971 Annual, EERIE 1971 Annual, and CREEPY #35 come to mind) have also been unrelated to anything within those books themselves, I tend to think it's just a Kenneth Smith painting that looked creepy. Edited March 30 by Axe Elf Jayman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Aldred Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 On 3/28/2024 at 4:45 AM, OtherEric said: Completely agreed that Corben seems inherently suited to color more than B&W, there's a reason that a huge percentage of the Color Sections we eventually get in the Warrens are by Corben. He was one of the most talented colourists ever to work in comics. His airbrush technique was so warm and vibrant. OtherEric and The Lions Den 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 On 3/29/2024 at 7:33 PM, Axe Elf said: I didn't get the same disconnected feeling about "Prelude to Armageddon" that @OtherEric described. In fact, I really liked this story a lot--between the Wood art and a script that actually made sense all the way through, it could be the best story of the issue--though perhaps not the most weighty or thought-provoking. As a general fan of fantasy, though, the sprawling epic of centaurs and minotaurs and nymphs and ogres illustrated by Wood was a fabulous read, and then to tie it to the pre-history of Earth, before the ogres evolved into mankind, was a nice twist. These are many of the same reasons I enjoy Wally's work so much---he has a way of bringing you into his world (and what a wonderful world it is)... OtherEric, Jayman and Axe Elf 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
