Whatever Happened To....

[RickHigh]

Just sitting here on a rainy afternoon looking through old issiues of The Comicbook Marketplace. from ten years ago. It's interesting seeing ads for NM Hulk #181, GS X #1 and X-Men #94 at $150 to $200 each. There were alot of great articles in those old issues.

Having been away from comics for several years, I was wondering whatever happened to Gary Carter? Also, used to really enjoy reading Keith Contarino's articles in the old Overstreet Updates. Are these guys still involved in comics?

 

[aardvark88]

Gary Carter did a price guide on Native Indian Arrowheads & jkc Contarino is selling on eBay weekly. Just sold my CBM #1 vf for over $100. Wow.

[sfilosa]

I too had stopped collecting for the past few years (basically because I was tired of buying overgraded books). I have been looking at old CBM's myself, and read an article by Keith Contarino in issue No.33 about grading. The funny part is that he said he never believed there would be an independent third party grading company (fortunately he was wrong). He also uses an example that a AF #15 in VF might go for $15,000 but a NM/MT would be worth $50,000.

 

The most interesting point is that this CBM is 7 years old but there are ads to sell Tales of Suspense #39 VF for $2,700. Right now, that book CGC'd goes for only $2,800-3,000.

 

Looking at the prices what it really says is that over the past 7 years, all the increase in prices are in the NM range. In general Good to Very Fine books are selling for about what they did back then.

 

I believe that trend might stop soon for one reason. Now that there is CGC, the true NM books have had tremendous increases. Part of this is because books that were sold as Near mint 7,10, 20 , etc. years ago really weren't. Now, even the "unreputable dealer" has no choice but to sell acurately graded CGC books.

 

While I don't see Good to Very Fine books increasing in price that much over the next few years, it wouldn't surprise me to see NM book prices to stay constant or even come down a little over the next few years.

 

Only time will tell.

 

[fazman]

Speaking of : Whatever Happened to...

I have a comic book price guide (1974-75 Edition Volume 2 No.1 ) .

This price guide titled: " True Market " Price Guide to Comic Book Retail Values.

Published by Maxwell J Seeley & Edited by Robert D Crestohl.

64 pages in magazine format. B & W pictures. ( Action #1 @ $4000.00 M )

Anybody know what happenned to these guys &/or what happened to this price guide ( other than OS, of course ) ??

Just interested...

[joe_collector]

>>Part of this is because books that were sold as Near mint 7,10, 20 , etc. years ago really weren't.

 

This one statement outlines the fallacy that comics books have been an "excellent investment", as buying NM 10 years ago and selling CGC VF is a quick way to the poorhouse. The only good investment (in any area) is to buy low and sell high, usually off-the-shelf books and store them, or get lucky buying a collection from a buyer who did same.

 

I also agree that NM values are still vastly inflated and due to come down, and hard.

[sfilosa]

I bought a number of "pedigree" books from PCE 7-9 years ago (some of the prices even made the annual O/S guide). I have sold some of them for half of what I bought them for because they were sold as NM and I grade most as only VF (actually sold one last week on eBay as a Fine).

 

But, just like in the stock market, you really make all your money on a few books. In the stock market, if you buy 10 stocks, after several years (ignore the recent past) 5 might go up a little, 3 might go down a little, 1 goes down a lot and 1 goes up a lot. The difference is the one that goes up a lot goes up 200-300% and makes your overall return seem like a 10-15% average (when it was only one stock that did it).

 

Comic books are the same. The "true" NM book that was bought 10 years ago is probably the one worth 5-10 times as much now where the "overgraded" NM books are lower. The Good-Very Fine are the same (because they probably were more accurately grade in the first place).

 

Just my observations.

[joe_collector]

Sure, if you bought a Hulk 181 VF/NM for every five other issues.

 

Do you ever read the old Overstreet reports? The prices people paid were out of sight, like some 1989 sales like Hero for Hire #1 VF - $75 and Marvel Special Edition #15 VF - $50. Or an Iron Man 55 VF/NM - $150.

 

Now assuming that grading was on-target, you would have lost money on those books, even though they are semi-key issues, and highly valued in CGC 9.4 and above.

[greggy]

Or an Iron Man 55 VF/NM - $150.

 

Like the VF copy odin88 sold for me to a dealer in San Diego in the early 1990s for $125? Too bad I sold my really nice copy in 1998 with the 56 for around $67!

 

Came from the same dealer that sold me the Marvel Feature 1 CGC 9.8. Only cost me $10 back in the day! My one only regret!

[sfilosa]

I agree, only the very high grades have gone up in value (unless you were actually paying Overstreet prices as oppose to market prices).

 

What I believe is changing this is CGC. The premium being paid for the ultra high grade (in my opinion) has factored the next 10 years of increases all ready into the price of the book.

 

I've done an analysis over the past month and a half (on Silver Age Marvel because there are a lot of sales and this is mostly what I collect). What is interesting is that if a NM copy of a book goes for $200, then a NM- goes for (at best) $100 and a VF/NM goes for $50-60. This seems a little out of whack, once you consider the fact that if you had 10 NM books and 10 NM- resubmiited, we know they all wouldn't come back graded the same (i.e. the difference in NM- and NM is extremely subjective).

 

 

[sfilosa]

To add to one of my points, Heritage is selling a Shock Suspenstories #4 in NM+ (9.6) on eBay now for an opening price of $1,800 (I assume no reserve since the opening price is so high). This is a Gaines copy (and I have always wanted a nice copy of this book). Last summer they sold a NM (9.4) in one of their auctions for over $2,000. Therefore the price to acquire this book now is less than a year ago.

 

To expand on my point, the book being offered now (9.6) and the one sold last year (9.4) are one and the same. I know this because 1) they both have a very light corner crease and 2) there is no 9.4 in the census (so it must be a resubmit).

 

"Buy Low, Sell High" is the only way. Three years ago in the stock market, the "New" advice was Buy High, Sell Higher. See where that got everyone (Poor House).

[PovertyRow]

I also agree that NM values are still vastly inflated and due to come down, and hard.

 

Joe, a real question - do you see NM values coming down hard if the books are actually true NM?

[sfilosa]

In almost any field, all speculative investments have come down hard. I would consider most Bronze to Modern books (and some Silver) to be speculative.

 

Realize, most of these books are not rare (in the sense of being only a handful of nice copies). While I have no basis for this statement, I would gues that only about 10% (or less) of the books that are worthy (i.e. valuable enough) in this world have been CGC'd. Most books are in collectors hands.

 

I also like L.B. Cole covers and just bought a Startling Terror Tales #8 in VF from Heritage Auctions. According to the Census, its the nice copy. My guess is that there are 50-100 nicer copies, but why would a collector who has no intention of selling get their books CGC (for $30-$80 a piece).

 

That's a Golden Age book. Imagine how many copies of Bronze and Modern books are stocked away in dealers inventory. There is no reason for them to list 20 copies of a book. Just list one, sell it and list the next one.

[joe_collector]

>>Joe, a real question - do you see NM values coming down hard if the books are actually true NM?

 

Of course. As stated before, the price differences between the CGC 9.2, 9.4, 9.6, etc. grades can be huge, and this is by definition, pure speculation. Don't listen to the "collectors" try and sugar coat it as "wanting the best" as I've seen some horribly flawed CGC 9.6 and 9.8 comics go for large sums of money, only because of the label.

 

If we ever got these guys on a lie detector, I'd love to ask them if they had any interest in buying the books because he/she feels they'll continue to go up in value.

 

"No"

 

... of the scale!! .....

[aardvark88]

Seems to be a partnership sales catalog between 2 Montreal, Canada mail order dealers: Max Seeley (early 70s) & Robt D Crestohl (mid-70s) (later partnered with the Comic Master 1,000,000 Comics Ltd.) Think Crestohl sold all his silver Marvels to an Eastcoast NYC warehouse.

[fazman]

Thanks for that little bit of info. Too bad mags can't be slabbed !! This price guide might be worth $ 4..00 ( Cdn$ , of course)

[Crowzilla]

I love getting old dealer catalogs.

I still have one of Chuck's catalogs from 1979 or 80 where he first started crying about how poor Mile High really was and that he didn't make a lot of money off of the Church collection.

 

But the best catalog ever has to be that giant phone book one from Metropolis a few years back. Was there anything NOT listed in that catalog?