Are Color Break Creases allowed in NM grade comics? 1 1

[Colin Nash]

I'm having a bit of trouble getting my head around the subject of color break creases and spine ticks on NM comics and looking for help.

Can a grade 9.2 and above have them (eg. One, or two) ?

The Overstreet Grading Guide book says 'No Color Break Creases Are Allowed' and yet an experienced online ebay seller tells me a 9.2 can have them. Although grading is subjective, does it give scope for color break to be acceptable in NM grades? This reputable online seller has told me that he has actually seen and handled such a CGC 9.2 with a color break spine tick. I have not seen one myself.

What is the definitive answer?

Kind regards,

Colin

[Lazyboy]

I don't think the OGG considers spine ticks and creases to be the same thing.

There are CGC 9.8s with colour-breaking spine ticks.

[joeypost]

Years ago it was rare. Today you can get 9.8’s with numerous color breaks. Or you could 8.0’s with no color breaks or creases. All depends on how new the grader is or what they did the night before.

[marvelmaniac]

I do not have my books third party graded, however, everything I have read on this site CGC has become very inconsistent with their grading, is it the amount of books they have to grade, new graders, CGC changing their stance on certain defects, being human, etc. I am old school and tend to grade on the conservative side using the grading standards from Heritage and Overstreet. I am not saying there is anything wrong with CGC grading but you will not know what grade your book will receive until you get it back.

Online Question..."Can a CGC 9.8 have spine ticks?"

"This is still slightly controversial because it's ambiguous; it's open to the grader's interpretation. But, what is undeniable is that a 9.8 can still have spine ticks."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXfJzqCUNVY

Crease - A fold which causes ink removal usually resulting in a white line. See "Corner Crease" and "Reading Crease."

Stress Lines - Light, tiny wrinkles occurring along the spine, projecting from the staples or appearing anywhere on the covers of a comic book.

Spine Stress - A small fold, usually less than 1/4 inch long perpendicular to the spine.

Fold/Folding:  Is a crease that does not break the color.

Tick: A small color break usually located on the spine by the staples typically due from stress that is placed on the book when opening.

VF 8.0 - An unnoticeable 1/4" crease is acceptable if color is not broken. A few almost insignificant stress lines may be present.

VF/NM 9.0 -  An 1/8" bend is allowed if color is not broken. Corners are cut square and sharp with ever-so-slight blunting permitted but no creases. A very minor accumulation of stress lines may be present if they are nearly imperceptible.

NM- 9.2 - A 1/16-1/8" bend is permitted with no color break. Almost no stress lines.

NM 9.4 - A 1/16" bend is permitted with no color break. Almost no stress lines.

NM+ 9.6 -  Almost imperceptible indentations are permissible, but no creases, bends, or color break. 

 

[Gaard]

Does "The Official CGC Guide to Grading" give any insight? I don't own one, but I would think it would say something about this.

[Lazyboy]

On 12/29/2022 at 2:13 AM, Gaard said:

Does "The Official CGC Guide to Grading" give any insight? I don't own one, but I would think it would say something about this.

Probably, and I'm sure that book absolutely does not contradict any examples of CGC's actual work.

[EastEnd1]

I think in grading to CGC standards you have to avoid applying "absolutes".  While there may be some, from my experience the overall appearance of the book trumps specific defects.  It's a subjective process at the end of the day.

Edited January 4, 2023 by EastEnd1

[LowGradeBronze]

I agree. It's a subjective process in so far as a non mechanical being, a human, does the grading but it's quite technical too, so should not be entirely subjective. Humans miss things, true, so in that sense subjective. A book is graded overall and no two books, even copies of the same comic book, will ever be exactly the same. "Not all (insert grade here) are created equal" is another way of saying it I guess. 

[Colin Nash]

Thanks to everyone who replied. Much appreciated.

I'm getting the impression that:- Yes, a 9.2 can have a color break spine tick or two. 

Quite a contradiction to what Overstreet Guide suggests. It seems we are in the hands of The Grader and his overall impression of the comic and not what the Grading Guide may say in black and white. Subjectivity can be many things it would seem so, we just have to pray The Grader remains on-point for us !!

Colin

Edited January 5, 2023 by Colin Nash
missing text

[namisgr]

CGC doesn't strictly abide by the Overstreet guide, and never has.

[namisgr]

On 1/5/2023 at 5:23 PM, Nyah said:

This was done so customers wouldn't experience the confusion you are currently experiencing.

What confusion is that?

[PJSandwich]

The topic is about -NM~NM having color break, correct?  Yes, they exist.  Remember, we are not talking about Mint (9.9) to Gem mint (10).  Those last two can't have color breaks anywhere (though apparently, they can have acetate???).  The fact that a book starts at the imperfect 9.8 NM and down, with faint color breaks to ever-increasing defects that lower its grade should be normal. You are starting two grades down from perfect. 

[Phill the Governor]

On 12/27/2022 at 1:49 PM, joeypost said:

Years ago it was rare. Today you can get 9.8’s with numerous color breaks. Or you could 8.0’s with no color breaks or creases. All depends on how new the grader is or what they did the night before.

For a company that prides itself on distinguishing high grade copies by minuscule defects, you just described how seriously troubling it is when inconsistency meets subjectivity. When the people at the top of a company have high enough wages to casually say "whatever" to a cost benefit analysis of maintaining consistency and quality control we get where we are today.

Not to mention the grading scale as it sits was created for profit not for any realistic collecting uniformity. Grades should go 8.5, 9.0, 9.5 and 10.0. The current grading system in place was created by selfish, greedy people who purposefully wanted a system that could suited to their needs of squeezing as much out of every sale of higher grade books as possible.

The Blackstone purchase caused the stage 2 cancer in CGC to escalate to stage 4, very quickly.

[Lazyboy]

On 1/18/2023 at 10:51 AM, Phill the Governor said:

For a company that prides itself on distinguishing high grade copies by minuscule defects, you just described how seriously troubling it is when inconsistency meets subjectivity. When the people at the top of a company have high enough wages to casually say "whatever" to a cost benefit analysis of maintaining consistency and quality control we get where we are today.

Not to mention the grading scale as it sits was created for profit not for any realistic collecting uniformity. Grades should go 8.5, 9.0, 9.5 and 10.0. The current grading system in place was created by selfish, greedy people who purposefully wanted a system that could suited to their needs of squeezing as much out of every sale of higher grade books as possible.

The Blackstone purchase caused the stage 2 cancer in CGC to escalate to stage 4, very quickly.

 The numbers used are meaningless. They're only representations of grades that already existed. Somebody just wanted to shove 25 points into a numerical scale that only goes to 10.

 

I have no argument against your criticisms of CGC's consistency or quality control.

[juniorMC]

Yes 9.4s can have a color break in them.  I had a wolverine 3, I believe, it was the one with the dark cover.  Came back a 98 first, then I sent it back to dwc for more sigs.  It came back a 9.4.  I noticed on the cover at the spice there was a color break that wasn't there b4.  Because it was the dark cover it was plain as day.  But I just got my new mutants back that I thought would get a 94 actually got a 9.6.  See the photos and u tell me.  My guess is the color break grade is determined my whether or not it actually feels like a color break.  I have another book that I can see the color break but when I rub my finger and nails across can't feel the color break.  Maybe that's it

[The Lions Den]

On 12/27/2022 at 12:18 PM, Colin Nash said:

I'm having a bit of trouble getting my head around the subject of color break creases and spine ticks on NM comics and looking for help.

Can a grade 9.2 and above have them (eg. One, or two) ?

The Overstreet Grading Guide book says 'No Color Break Creases Are Allowed' and yet an experienced online ebay seller tells me a 9.2 can have them. Although grading is subjective, does it give scope for color break to be acceptable in NM grades? This reputable online seller has told me that he has actually seen and handled such a CGC 9.2 with a color break spine tick. I have not seen one myself.

What is the definitive answer?

Kind regards,

Colin

They're allowed. 

[Tom789]

On 12/29/2022 at 12:13 AM, Gaard said:

Does "The Official CGC Guide to Grading" give any insight? I don't own one, but I would think it would say something about this.

If you want to trust the CGC book, a 9.4 can have "one or two small color breaking creases at a corner or edge ... Several small non color breaking stress lines are allowed along the spine, or a few color breaking ones."  Only one or a couple defect types can be present at once, depending on their size.

[finalfan7asy]

I own a Wolverine LS #3 that was graded a 9.8 with 5 color break spine ticks (4 on the front and 1 on the back cover). 

[The Lions Den]

On 10/30/2023 at 1:52 PM, finalfan7asy said:

I own a Wolverine LS #3 that was graded a 9.8 with 5 color break spine ticks (4 on the front and 1 on the back cover). 

I can't agree with this grade...  

[GawkHawk]

On 10/30/2023 at 1:52 PM, finalfan7asy said:

I own a Wolverine LS #3 that was graded a 9.8 with 5 color break spine ticks (4 on the front and 1 on the back cover). 

I've got the same issue, only a newsstand variant, at CGC now.  I can only hope they're as lenient on my copy.