Stan, Jack, and Steve - The 1960's (1962) Jack Kirby creates the Marvel Universe! 4 4

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JANUARY 1962

For Rawhide Kid #27 - Kirby did the cover and wrote and penciled THREE stories, all inked by D. Ayers and thus, missing their signature - but it is signed Stan Lee and J. Kirby. Stan does one other story with Don Heck, a generic 5 page filler signed by both.

Story TWO:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JANUARY 1962

For Rawhide Kid #27 - Kirby did the cover and wrote and penciled THREE stories, all inked by D. Ayers and thus, missing their signature - but it is signed Stan Lee and J. Kirby. Stan does one other story with Don Heck, a generic 5 page filler signed by both.

Story THREE:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JANUARY 1962

For Strange Tales #95 - Kirby did the cover and wrote and penciled TWO stories, all inked by D. Ayers and thus, missing their signature - and there's a strange story behind that...

Story ONE:

[Prince Namor]

ANATOMY OF A STORY

11 years later, the lead story from Strange Tales #95 would be reprinted for the first time in Monsters on the Prowl #26 (the whole time Kirby was at DC, Marvel reprinted his monster stories). The Editor at the time, Houseroy, would add a credit box listing Lee as '-script' (which is 100% FALSE) and downplay Kirby's role, listing Art by Jack Kirby and MR. Ayers. Wait, where's Larry Lieber's credit as -script writer? I thought THAT was what happened per Marvel and Stan?

No. We wouldn't see that begin to show up until after Kirby died, and the idea that Stan scripted anything he didn't sign was pretty much completely understood, and they needed a new line of BS to try and throw people off. If Kirby had been alive to hear them try and say Larry Lieber wrote scripts for Jack Kirby... Oy Vey! That would've been an interview to remember...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JANUARY 1962

For Strange Tales #95 - Kirby did the cover and wrote and penciled TWO stories, all inked by D. Ayers and thus, missing their signature...

At the bottom of the last page of the story is a blurb for the Fantastic Four.

Story TWO:

Edited January 2, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JANUARY 1962

For Strange Tales #95 - Stan Lee and Steve Ditko also do a FOUR page story signed on the splash Stan Lee & S. Ditko. 

At the bottom of the last page of the story is a blurb for Amazing Adult Fantasy.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JANUARY 1962

Strange Tales #95 - And did you notice on the cover?

Lee goes out of his way to promote his and Ditko's story... "Also... Another Off-Beat Little Classic by Lee and Ditko: Do Not Panic"

Kirby has essentially SAVED Marvel with his sales from the Monster books and Stan chooses to promote his own work over it...

And honestly... the pre-Stan Lee stories by Ditko are infinitely better than these thinly scripted, barely a story, 60 second reads. AAF may have caused some excitement when it came out, especially as it was hyped pretty heavily... but ultimately, Stan and Steve's 'Off-Beat' tales would get a canceled...

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JANUARY 1962

For Tales of Suspense #28, Jack Kirby does the cover (inked by Steve Ditko) and writes and pencils TWO stories for the book.

And what's with that cover? That's obviously an editorial decision to show off the other stories... but it looks terrible. Very Charlton-ish. 

Story ONE (inked by Russ Heath!):

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JANUARY 1962

For Tales of Suspense #28, Jack Kirby does the cover (inked by Steve Ditko) and writes and pencils TWO stories for the book.

Long before JIM #83 and the first appearance of Thor, Kirby had a fascination with those Easter Island type aliens... (as I'll show later, but wanted to mention it as they show up again here!)

The last page includes an advertisement for Fantastic Four.

Story TWO (inked by D. Ayers):

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JANUARY 1962

For Tales of Suspense #28, Stan Lee and Steve Ditko also do a 5 page story, signed on the splash as Stan Lee and S. Ditko. 

The last page includes an advertisement for Amazing Adult Fantasy.

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JANUARY 1962

For Tales of Suspense #28, we can see Kirby is still writing his dialogue in the story...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JANUARY 1962

For Tales to Astonish #30, Jack Kirby does the cover (inked by Sol Brodsky) and writes and pencils TWO stories for the book (both inked by D. Ayers, and thus, missing a signature.

This cover isn't as bad, but I still prefer just one image... Gorilla-Man is back!

Story ONE: 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JANUARY 1962

For Tales to Astonish #30, Jack Kirby does the cover (inked by Sol Brodsky) and writes and pencils TWO stories for the book (both inked by D. Ayers, and thus, missing a signature.

Story TWO: 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JANUARY 1962

For Tales to Astonish #30, Stan Lee and Steve Ditko also do a 5 page story, signed on the splash page as Stan Lee and S. Ditko. 

Very similar to the last story...

[Zonker]

On 1/2/2023 at 12:10 AM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS JANUARY 1962

For Rawhide Kid #27 - Kirby did the cover and wrote and penciled THREE stories, all inked by D. Ayers and thus, missing their signature - but it is signed Stan Lee and J. Kirby.

What's the thinking on how this iteration worked?  Originally, the only time we saw a Kirby sig was when Ayers added it.  And then there was a period where the Kirby + Ayers signature was painted over, leaving nothing.  Now we have the Stan Lee & J. Kirby iteration.  Was the original Kirby + Ayers sig painted over, and then the J. Kirby added to Stan's signature?  (seems like a lot of work!)  Or was Ayers told to stop?  (Did he ever mention this in his interviews?)

[Prince Namor]

On 1/2/2023 at 9:29 AM, Zonker said:

What's the thinking on how this iteration worked?  Originally, the only time we saw a Kirby sig was when Ayers added it.  And then there was a period where the Kirby + Ayers signature was painted over, leaving nothing.  Now we have the Stan Lee & J. Kirby iteration.  Was the original Kirby + Ayers sig painted over, and then the J. Kirby added to Stan's signature?  (seems like a lot of work!)  Or was Ayers told to stop?  (Did he ever mention this in his interviews?)

Much of the original art from this period is missing. Stan is still painting over the Kirby/Ayers signature, as we'll see from some of the art that IS out there. The 'Stan Lee and J. Kirby' is written by Stan, NOT by Jack. 

Ayers, as far as I can tell never spoke about it in interviews - he was scared of Marvel and losing work - but he answered via e-mail when people would ask about it.

[Zonker]

It just seems like extra effort on Stan's part to get rid of the Kirby + Ayers and then add the J. Kirby part back.  Just leave the Kirby + Ayers in place, and add Stan's name, and it seems like it would have accomplished what he apparently wanted.  Unless this was some backhand way of acknowledging Kirby was doing more than just drawing the pictures?  (although obscuring Ayers' contribution in the process?)

[gunsmokin]

Agree with everything posted. Another reason Marvel published the two Monsterbus omnibuses. A chance to put Lee’s name front and center on something he had nothing to do with.

[Mmehdy]

On 1/2/2023 at 7:54 AM, gunsmokin said:

Agree with everything posted. Another reason Marvel published the two Monsterbus omnibuses. A chance to put Lee’s name front and center on something he had nothing to do with.

It really was a call out to JK as it only had his stories, writing credit is absurd to anyone who has read this thread.I can remember reading TOS 28 30 times after I bought it on the news stand...fantastic book, I liked the short snap ending stories of Ditko...especially as a young reader...it clicked FYI. Keep up the great work in 2023 and thank you for 2022.

[Prince Namor]

On 1/2/2023 at 10:36 AM, Zonker said:

It just seems like extra effort on Stan's part to get rid of the Kirby + Ayers and then add the J. Kirby part back.  Just leave the Kirby + Ayers in place, and add Stan's name, and it seems like it would have accomplished what he apparently wanted.  Unless this was some backhand way of acknowledging Kirby was doing more than just drawing the pictures?  (although obscuring Ayers' contribution in the process?)

Stan's purpose was to present himself as the writer and creator of all things. Despite the fact that he was neither much of a writer or much of a creator. 

He started out by writing stories that, from what it looks like came from solicited requests for stories and synopsis', that he would pay for and edit as his own. He signed his name to them back then too. Currently author JL Mast is putting together a database of this information - tracking down actual writers and what they submitted... 

After the war Stan settled into a less work role and more of an overseer. He even had an editor who oversaw the individual book editors that he could then dictate to. He never mentions Al Sulman in any of his writings about Timely, but rather leaves it up to people who imagine he himself wrote every comic and dictated what covers should be, etc. etc. - when in reality Stan was there to make sure the huge bullpen showed up on time and worked on the clock. 

WRITER'S DIGEST 08 Vol 33, 1953 (See 1st pic)

WRITER'S DIGEST : (Dec/56)

"Timely Comics, Inc., 655 Madison Avenue, New York City 21, is second only to Dell in the comics field. It has 16 different fantasy-mystery titles at the present time, for which it needs material."

"The title of each magazine indicates the kind of material wanted for it, and here's the list: Adventure Into Mystery, Astonishing, Marvel Tales, Mystic, Strange Tales, Uncanny Tales, Unknown Worlds, World of Mystery, World of Suspense, Journey Into Mystery, Mystery Tales, Mystical Tales, Spellbound, Strange Stories of Suspense, Strange Tales of the Unusual, World of Fantasy."

"Alan Sulman is the -script Editor here. He requests that you do not send in completed scripts, or even synopses. Please write to him, setting forth your qualifications and ideas, and he will suggest how you should proceed. If you're in the New York area, it might be a good idea to telephone him at Templeton 8-7900."

"Payment is in line with rates paid by other companies in the comics magazine field, and is made on acceptance."