Newsstand editions question! (not the one you think it is...probably) 2 2

[valiantman]

Quote

 

  On 2/14/2023 at 8:43 PM, valiantman said:

October 2021 analysis: https://comics.gpanalysis.com/news/2021/newsstand-direct-edition-data-where-gpanalysis-is-leading-the-way

 

On 3/1/2023 at 9:10 PM, divad said:

But I can't get by their first "fact": "Before the introduction of the direct market in the late-1970s, every comic book was a newsstand edition." 

Late 1970's is the best they could do???

Is it not a different late-1970s (after 1975) date for each publisher?

The article is about newsstands overall, not a citation of the exact date that each publisher put the first direct editions out, subdivided by title within that publisher.

The author (me) is trying to get to the purpose of the article for general audiences and some general education on the topic, not write an origin-of-the-direct-market dissertation with a ten page bibliography.

At least read past the first sentence and scroll down to the pretty pictures. 

Edited March 2, 2023 by valiantman

[divad]

Excellent data, Greg - thanks for putting articles like this out there. Although I don't agree with some of the bases of the interpretations, I find the data analysis fascinating. 

[divad]

On 2/14/2023 at 7:12 AM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

Because regardless of the print numbers, unsold newsstand copies were sent back and destroyed.

You are aware of the Mile High II Collection are you not?

[divad]

On 2/14/2023 at 6:11 AM, awakeintheashes said:

eBay hucksters

Though aside from buying collections, or cherry-picking them (which I detest), or the randomass estate sale, just plain luck, or paying obscene amounts for graded copies, do you know a better way to find HQ raw comics?

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by divad

[Microchip]

On 3/6/2023 at 10:59 AM, divad said:

On 2/15/2023 at 2:12 AM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

Because regardless of the print numbers, unsold newsstand copies were sent back and destroyed.

You are aware of the Mile High II Collection are you not?

Is that an exception applied to what was true for the majority of books?

Exceptions by definition are exceptions.

[valiantman]

On 3/5/2023 at 5:48 PM, divad said:

Excellent data, Greg - thanks for putting articles like this out there. Although I don't agree with some of the bases of the interpretations, I find the data analysis fascinating. 

That article is approaching 18 months old. I'm sure it will be interesting to follow-up with the CGC Census data from the past 6 months of newsstand identification once it is added.

I'll be analyzing CGC's newsstand numbers using September 2022 as the "starting point", so that we don't try to compare the few newsstands identified since September 2022 to the counts of CGC graded books from the past 22 years.

[awakeintheashes]

On 3/5/2023 at 7:04 PM, divad said:

Though aside from buying collections, or cherry-picking them (which I detest), or the randomass estate sale, just plain luck, or paying obscene amounts for graded copies, do you know a better way to find HQ raw comics?

 

Getting them from eBay isn’t the issue. It’s the person who lists a newsstand with some incorrect print-run number and tacts on some obscure ratio for it. 

1:omfgthisSisReallyRare!!!!! L@@K 🔥 

[divad]

On 3/5/2023 at 5:43 PM, awakeintheashes said:

Getting them from eBay isn’t the issue. It’s the person who lists a newsstand with some incorrect print-run number and tacts on some obscure ratio for it. 

1:omfgthisSisReallyRare!!!!! L@@K 🔥 

Yeah, but we see right through that garbage    Hucksterism is rampant in all marketplaces. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by divad

[Lazyboy]

On 3/5/2023 at 6:09 PM, Microchip said:

On 3/5/2023 at 5:59 PM, divad said:

On 2/14/2023 at 9:12 AM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

Because regardless of the print numbers, unsold newsstand copies were sent back and destroyed.

You are aware of the Mile High II Collection are you not?

Is that an exception applied to what was true for the majority of books?

Exceptions by definition are exceptions.

Exception is not the right word for that.

Newsstand copies were not actually returned in any time period relevant to this thread/forum. Unsold copies were supposed to be destroyed, but we know that did not always happen. The only real question is the actual quantities.

[Lazyboy]

On 2/14/2023 at 12:58 AM, Nsschenks said:

Wasn't sure exactly where to post this topic, but figured this mostly applies to moderns, at least in the instances I'm curious about. My question is this: I know there's a lot out there about newsstands becoming rarer and rarer over time, but I'm more curious to know if individual books/titles reflect this rarity/curve or if there is a lot of variation from book to book?

...

Anyway, not sure if anyone would actually know this, but curious if there are any thoughts. Don't really know how comic book companies operated in regard to allocating newsstand copies for any given book.

I know you already have this answer, but it doesn't hurt for it to be posted publicly.

Direct print runs are mostly determined by orders from the distributor(s), which are based, in turn, on orders from the retailers they service. Newsstand print runs were determined based on previous sales for established titles and prospective sales for new titles. New titles would have been compared to similar titles (however they determined what was similar - likely looking at titles like Batman Adventures when deciding how much Batman Beyond to print) with a sales history. Just as sales are not the same for every title in the direct market, they are not the same for every title in the newsstand market, nor are the numbers proportional. Unfortunately, the actual numbers are very, very hard to come by (basically impossible, really).

[Lazyboy]

On 2/16/2023 at 12:45 PM, BCR said:

90s 10%, 00’s 5% and 10’s 1-3% is the rule of thumb. 
 

No reason to break your brain too much beyond that.

What is this supposed to be?

[divad]

On 3/6/2023 at 10:31 AM, Lazyboy said:

Exception is not the right word for that.

Newsstand copies were not actually returned in any time period relevant to this thread/forum. Unsold copies were supposed to be destroyed, but we know that did not always happen. The only real question is the actual quantities.

I agree, except for the one comment - newsstand issues were always subject to a return policy. That's the only reason non-comic stores would take them.

[Microchip]

On 3/7/2023 at 8:05 AM, divad said:

On 3/7/2023 at 5:31 AM, Lazyboy said:

Exception is not the right word for that.

Newsstand copies were not actually returned in any time period relevant to this thread/forum. Unsold copies were supposed to be destroyed, but we know that did not always happen. The only real question is the actual quantities.

I agree, except for the one comment - newsstand issues were always subject to a return policy. That's the only reason non-comic stores would take them.

The financial incentive to return books, vs holding onto them, not for sale just doesn't make sense for a business.   Holding onto books that didn't sell, just doesn't stack up unless it was an oversight, or deliberate apathy by an employee.      For any business devoting storage space to 'dead' stock, for years and decades, just doesn't stack up.

[Lazyboy]

On 3/6/2023 at 3:05 PM, divad said:

I agree, except for the one comment - newsstand issues were always subject to a return policy. That's the only reason non-comic stores would take them.

Yes, they were subject to credit/refund because that's how the newsstand system works, but they were not physically returned, at least in the majority of cases.

[500Club]

On 3/6/2023 at 2:58 PM, Lazyboy said:

Yes, they were subject to credit/refund because that's how the newsstand system works, but they were not physically returned, at least in the majority of cases.

Over time, actual returns were replaced by credit for stripped covers, which was replaced by the reporting of ‘returns’, IIRC.

[500Club]

On 3/6/2023 at 2:43 PM, Microchip said:

The financial incentive to return books, vs holding onto them, not for sale just doesn't make sense for a business.   Holding onto books that didn't sell, just doesn't stack up unless it was an oversight, or deliberate apathy by an employee.      For any business devoting storage space to 'dead' stock, for years and decades, just doesn't stack up.

Theoretically, the corner store reported unsold copies, got credit back, and disposed of the unsold copies.

[Lazyboy]

On 3/6/2023 at 5:35 PM, 500Club said:

Theoretically, the corner store reported unsold copies, got credit back, and disposed of the unsold copies.

Depending on the retailer and/or distributor, the distributor may have dealt with the unsold copies. Depending on the distributor, some of those copies may have never even made it to any retailer.

[500Club]

On 3/6/2023 at 5:31 PM, Lazyboy said:

Depending on the retailer and/or distributor, the distributor may have dealt with the unsold copies. Depending on the distributor, some of those copies may have never even made it to any retailer.

Right, forgot about that part. 

There was a great series of articles in Comic Book Artist about 20 years ago that detailed the shenanigans that occurred back then.

[Microchip]

 

 

[divad]

On 3/6/2023 at 4:31 PM, Lazyboy said:

On 3/6/2023 at 3:35 PM, 500Club said:

Theoretically, the corner store reported unsold copies, got credit back, and disposed of the unsold copies.

Depending on the retailer and/or distributor, the distributor may have dealt with the unsold copies. Depending on the distributor, some of those copies may have never even made it to any retailer.

As far as BA and early CA, I can vouch for that - where I worked, we returned unsold magazines with high cover prices, but comics at 20 to 35 cents cover price? It would cost as much to return as the credit.