Newsstand vs Direct: Clarity (and maybe less misinformation) Needed 5 5

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 3/27/2023 at 4:25 PM, paqart said:

I had to look that up to know what it is. Are you from Canada? In America, we call those "Cliff's Notes."

Seriously though, I'm probably the worst offender as far as lengthy posts are concerned. I'm not editing them much so they are not only wordy but can be partly redundant with earlier posts. Not that redundant information has stopped anyone else. As far as I can tell, this thread doesn't contain much information that can't be found in other threads, in posts written by the same people who post here.

For fun, and to add some new information to this thread, I just looked up the highest prices paid for newsstands on eBay. To my surprise, the most expensive was $15,000 for an ASM 252 in 9.8, signed by Stan Lee. How much is the Lee signature adding to that price, I wonder?

The next most expensive, though almost the same price, is $14,990 paid for a 9.8 Hulk 340 with a Jeweler's insert. That's two in a row from the 1980's, when newsstands are supposed to be the most plentiful. Not in 9.8 of course. Those are not easy. According to the CGC census, there are a whopping 20,660 graded copies of the US edition of ASM 252. Of those, 1,921 are in 9.8. Another eight are in 9.9. There are 678 Canadian editions, all of which are newsstand. In that group, 53 are in 9.8 condition. That doesn't seem like a small number to me, and it implies a larger number of US edition newsstands in the same condition. They don't have any "newsstand edition" version listed, so it's hard to say. The Hulk doesn't have newsstand or Canadian editions broken out. Instead, the census lists a total of 11,700 graded copies, of which 1,294 are 9.8 and 3 are 9.9. Both are normally $500-$600 comics in this grade. Why such a high price?

A slightly older sale of the ASM 252, also newsstand, 9.8, and signed by Lee, went for a more reasonable $2,325. If anything, the newsstands look more common or as common as the directs. A newsstand premium on these doesn't appear to be justified.

With the exception of Ultimate Fallout 4 ($5,000-$10,000) and Clone Wars 1, the rest of the next 56 or so comics are all from the eighties. It makes sense because those comics had time to appreciate. The newsstand premium seems odd to me because these comics aren't anywhere near as rare as later ones. After UF4, the highest price on a modern newsstand is for 2008's Hulk 1, in 9.4 condition, sold three weeks ago for $2,000 Canadian dollars ($1,453 US). The Hulk 1 newsstand is substantially less common than the direct and allother variants. The census has 58 newsstand editions and 3,834 directs, for a ratio of 66:1, which is about what I see in the market. From my point of view, the price on the Hulk 1 (2008) is easier to justify than many of the other comics, which seem to have a newsstand premium attached, though they are from the 80's.

 

 

 

 

I started wading in...

Now I’m confused as to why you’re referencing newsstands signed by Stan, and MJ inserts.  Those command their own premiums. 

[paqart]

On 3/27/2023 at 4:31 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

You can’t respond to my request for “Cliffs” notes with another wall of text...and expect that I’m going to read it. 

So you got my joke...

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 3/27/2023 at 4:41 PM, paqart said:

So you got my joke...

[Prince Namor]

On 3/27/2023 at 9:14 AM, valiantman said:

If I said that "1+2=3 and 1 is 33% of the total", and you quoted it and said "Just playing Devil's Advocate here but..." 

... it would be weird. Yes, it was weird when you played Devil's Advocate to math. I get that you're embarrassed and trying to cover.

It's not working.

Um, no. The math you provided above is absolute. There's no denying it.

The math you provided in your table was incomplete. Just a sample size. To make your... point... which you then denied was a point and then agreed that was your point when I pointed it out to you. 

I was playing Devil's Advocate to your... point. 

On 3/27/2023 at 9:14 AM, valiantman said:

Your new problem with what I posted afterwards, not in the math post, is that you think the statement I made later was just a response to something from many years ago

I asked you... you told me it was. That's the only reason.

On 3/27/2023 at 9:14 AM, valiantman said:

(because I said these discussions go back many years --- which includes now), 

I asked: Was anyone disputing this specifically? (THAT is aimed at THIS thread)

You however replied: Unfortunately, yes. Other discussions of newsstands (going back many years) often include statements that newsstands were treated more harshly than direct editions on average and then inevitably followed by "prove it" or "not where I bought my comics" or some other nonsense.

Nowhere in that did you say it was from THIS discussion. 

On 3/27/2023 at 9:14 AM, valiantman said:

so you've decided I'm wrong (and you get points in whatever contest you're now forcing) because it's not a point that's from this thread?

Seriously?  Did you read this thread? 

a) Never said you were wrong. I was just curious why you suddenly brought that up. If someone had specifically said something about it in this thread, you could've just pointed that out. But you didn't. I thought that was strange. 

b) Not forcing anything, I just asked questions.

On 3/27/2023 at 9:14 AM, valiantman said:

Embarrassing again... and the first thing you're embarrassed about includes where "I absolutely agree with you..." so you should have quit while you were ahead.

It's getting sad now.

What would I be embarrassed about? I asked questions and you're flippin' out. 

[paqart]

On 3/27/2023 at 4:36 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I started wading in...

Now I’m confused as to why you’re referencing newsstands signed by Stan, and MJ inserts.  Those command their own premiums. 

They had the highest prices but the MJ and signature premiums are not worth the extra money. Neither is the newsstand factor. I'm just surprised that newsstands have a premium because they are more rare but the highest premiums are attached to non-rare newsstands.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 3/27/2023 at 6:05 PM, paqart said:

They had the highest prices but the MJ and signature premiums are not worth the extra money. Neither is the newsstand factor. I'm just surprised that newsstands have a premium because they are more rare but the highest premiums are attached to non-rare newsstands.

Who’s to say that the MJ inserts aren’t worth the premium?  Much more rare than newsstands without them....no?

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 3/27/2023 at 12:39 PM, Kramerica said:

Accept my apologies for starting it. I did so in good faith to help bring myself up to date as I sort through multiple OO collections with newsstands from all years. I thought this thread could compile enough good information so that I could come back a week later, have some coffee. And learn a bunch. Which I did.

But I had no idea it would be used for malevolent deeds and become a threat to my quest for knowledge. So, you guys using this thread to moan are a bunch of weenies. 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 3/27/2023 at 4:22 PM, Prince Namor said:

which you then denied was a point and then agreed that was your point when I pointed it out to you. 

I was playing Devil's Advocate to your... point. 

[paqart]

On 3/27/2023 at 6:09 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Who’s to say that the MJ inserts aren’t worth the premium?  Much more rare than newsstands without them....no?

Worth "a" premium, not "that" premium. There are other copies of the same comics with the same qualities: NS/MJ/Lee sig, all for much less. Except for the highest price examples, prices for those things are normally around $2k, not $15k.

[valiantman]

On 3/27/2023 at 4:22 PM, Prince Namor said:

I asked questions and you're flippin' out. 

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but I'm just sipping some water and raising my eyebrows a little.

You've dissected a single post into five different quotes and then justified the answers to each of them (including an a) and b) section, an underlining, a bolding, and ALL CAPS)... so... 

Edited March 27, 2023 by valiantman