Is Jim Lee's First Marvel Art In Marvel Age Annual #3, And Not In Alpha Flight #51? 0

[androolx]

Jim Lee's first Marvel art is commonly stated to be in Alpha Flight #51, published 10/1987.  Jim Lee penciled one page of art (shown below) in Marvel Age Annual #3, also published 10/1987.  The Marvel Age Annual #3 page is a preview of coming events in Alpha Flight, and does not contain artwork appearing in Alpha Flight #51.  My research indicates Marvel Age Annual #3 was released one week before Alpha Flight #51 - 06/23/1987, compared to a release date of 06/30/1987 for Alpha Flight #51.  Given the foregoing, should Jim Lee's first Marvel art be considered to be in Marvel Age Annual #3, instead of in Alpha Flight #51, or at least be considered to be in Marvel Age Annual #3 together with Alpha Flight #51?  I understand Marvel Age was a promotional/preview publication, but it does contain Jim Lee comic art created for Marvel.  Thoughts?

[divad]

Does your research include the US Copyright Office database? Worth a check if you haven't done so already. 

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 4/5/2023 at 10:05 PM, androolx said:

Jim Lee's first Marvel art is commonly stated to be in Alpha Flight #51, published 10/1987.  Jim Lee penciled one page of art (shown below) in Marvel Age Annual #3, also published 10/1987.  The Marvel Age Annual #3 page is a preview of coming events in Alpha Flight, and does not contain artwork appearing in Alpha Flight #51.  My research indicates Marvel Age Annual #3 was released one week before Alpha Flight #51 - 06/23/1987, compared to a release date of 06/30/1987 for Alpha Flight #51.  Given the foregoing, should Jim Lee's first Marvel art be considered to be in Marvel Age Annual #3, instead of in Alpha Flight #51, or at least be considered to be in Marvel Age Annual #3 together with Alpha Flight #51?  I understand Marvel Age was a promotional/preview publication, but it does contain Jim Lee comic art created for Marvel.  Thoughts?

Interesting find. The fandom wiki shows the annual as having a release date a week prior to 51.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Marvel_Age_Annual_Vol_1_3

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Alpha_Flight_Vol_1_51

[divad]

Type of Work: Serial Title: Marvel Age annual. Serial Publication Year: 1987 Imprint: New York : Marvel Comics Group, 1985-. Description: print material. Frequency: Annually. Publication History: Vol. 1, no. 1, 1985- Description based on: Vol. 1, no. 2, 1986. Copyright Claimant: Marvel Entertainment Group, Inc. Issues Registered: v. 1, no. 3, 1987. Created 1986; Pub. 1987-06-11; Reg. 1987-09-30; TX0002170103     Names: Marvel Entertainment Group, Inc.

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by divad

[divad]

Type of Work:	Serial
Title:	Alpha Flight.
Serial Publication Year:	1987
Imprint:	New York : The Group, 1983-.
Description:	print material.
Frequency:	Monthly.
Publication History:	Vol. 1, no. 1, Aug. 1983-
Description based on:	Vol. 1, no. 2, Sept. 1983.
Copyright Claimant:	Marvel Entertainment Group, Inc.
Authorship on Application:	text & ill.: Marvel Entertainment Group, Inc., employer for hire.
	text & ill.: Marvel Comics Group, employer for hire.
Issues Registered:	v. 1, no. 46, May87. Appl. author: text & ill.: Marvel Entertainment Group, Inc., successor in interest to Marvel Comics Group, a division of Cadence Industries Corporation, employer for hire. Created 1986; Pub. 1987-01-13; Reg. 1987-04-30; TX0002060326
	v. 1, no. 47, Jun87. Created 1987; Pub. 1987-02-10; Reg. 1987-05-15; TX0002066397
	v. 1, no. 48, Jul87. Created 1986; Pub. 1987-03-10; Reg. 1987-06-12; TX0002099087
	v. 1, no. 49, Aug87. Created 1987; Pub. 1987-04-14; Reg. 1987-06-18; TX0002095298
	v. 1, no. 50, Sep87. Created 1987; Pub. 1987-05-14; Reg. 1987-10-07; TX0002164618
	v. 1, no. 51, Oct87. Created 1986; Pub. 1987-06-11; Reg. 1987-09-30; TX0002180311
	v. 1, no. 52, Nov87. Created 1987; Pub. 1987-07-24; Reg. 1987-09-30; TX0002157334
	v. 1, no. 53, Dec87. Created 1987; Pub. 1987-08-26; Reg. 1987-10-26; TX0002171600
	v. 1, no. 54, Jan88. Created 1987; Pub. 1987-09-11; Reg. 1987-11-27; TX0002196132
	v. 1, no. 55, Feb88. Created 1987; Pub. 1987-10-15; Reg. 1988-01-13; TX0002229422
	v. 1, no. 56, Mar88. Created 1987; Pub. 1987-11-24; Reg. 1988-02-25; TX0002283224
	v. 1, no. 57, Apr88. Created 1987; Pub. 1987-12-08; Reg. 1988-03-04; TX0002267027
Names:	Marvel Entertainment Group, Inc.
	Cadence Industries Corporation. Marvel Comics Group
	Marvel Comics Group, a division of Cadence Industries Corporation.

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by divad

[divad]

According to both Marvel and the Copyright Office, they were both published on the same date: Pub. 1987-06-11;

This is not lightly stated - the signature on the forms filed state they are accurate.

[Lazyboy]

On 4/7/2023 at 12:17 AM, divad said:

According to both Marvel and the Copyright Office, they were both published on the same date: Pub. 1987-06-11;

This is not lightly stated - the signature on the forms filed state they are accurate.

Sometimes, things like that are still not correct for various reasons.

From Mike's Amazing World:

[divad]

On 4/7/2023 at 11:38 AM, Lazyboy said:

Sometimes, things like that are still not correct for various reasons.

From Mike's Amazing World:

I agree, as are these.  Advance notices are often "wish" dates. They are all just marketing a product in which they all have a pecuniary interest $ (No offense to Mike)  Who happens to list all of his sources (to his credit) although his conclusion, however implied, may also be erroneous.

Edited April 7, 2023 by divad

[androolx]

Thank you all so far for your input.  As stated above, acc. to the US Copyright Office (accurate or not), Alpha Flight #51 and Marvel Age Annual #3 were both published on 06/11/1987 and registered on 09/30/1987. 

Acc. to Marvel Age #54 (09/1987) (see pics below), the shipping and on sale dates for the books were to be as follows:

Alpha Flight #51 - ship 06/09/1987; on sale 06/30/1987

Marvel Age Annual #3 - ship 06/02/1987; on sale 06/23/1987

Does the fact that Marvel Age Annual #3 was scheduled to be on sale a week before Alpha Flight #51, as stated in a Marvel publication, mean Jim Lee's first Marvel art appeared in Marvel Age Annual #3, and not in Alpha Flight #51, regardless of when those works were published or registered with the US Copyright Office?

[Lazyboy]

On 4/7/2023 at 2:54 PM, divad said:

I agree, as are these.  Advance notices are often "wish" dates. They are all just marketing a product in which they all have a pecuniary interest $ (No offense to Mike)  Who happens to list all of his sources (to his credit) although his conclusion, however implied, may also be erroneous.

So you believe that every single Marvel comic from each of those months was published on the exact same date? Because that's what the copyright filings say.

[Lazyboy]

On 4/9/2023 at 10:22 AM, androolx said:

Does the fact that Marvel Age Annual #3 was scheduled to be on sale a week before Alpha Flight #51, as stated in a Marvel publication, mean Jim Lee's first Marvel art appeared in Marvel Age Annual #3, and not in Alpha Flight #51, regardless of when those works were published or registered with the US Copyright Office?

The Marvel Age ad with Jim Lee's art would seem to be what was first available to the public.

But so what? It's a single ad page. Nobody really even cares about Alpha Flight 51, which was almost certainly his first work assigned and finished for Marvel, even if they also got him to draw a little ad.

[jdandns]

Jim Lee collectors should have them both. 

Assuming the first "Marvel Age Omnibus" is a hit, that annual will eventually be reprinted in Volume 3 of what would probably be a 4-volume set.  (Lee's popular self-portrait cover from issue #104 would also be in one of those final two volumes.)

[shadroch]

On 4/9/2023 at 1:17 PM, Lazyboy said:

So you believe that every single Marvel comic from each of those months was published on the exact same date? Because that's what the copyright filings say.

Marvel was very good at shipping on time in that era.  During the Perlman era that followed, on sale dates were aspirational but a Marvel book missing it's sale date was rare in the mid-1980s

[Lazyboy]

On 4/9/2023 at 4:38 PM, shadroch said:

Marvel was very good at shipping on time in that era.  During the Perlman era that followed, on sale dates were aspirational but a Marvel book missing it's sale date was rare in the mid-1980s

Absolutely. Before the 90s, it was quite rare for a comic to miss its sale date.

But that's not what we're talking about here. Marvel released comics every week. There is no way all of their offerings for an entire month actually had the same date (as shown in the copyright filings).

Maybe the the point of the picture I posted earlier was missed.

[Lazyboy]

On 4/9/2023 at 4:37 PM, jdandns said:

Assuming the first "Marvel Age Omnibus"

You're joking, right?

On 4/9/2023 at 4:37 PM, jdandns said:

is a hit

[jdandns]

Well, I mean, it's scheduled for an August, 2023 publication. I suppose pre-orders could be so low they could cancel it, but more likely they'd go through with it at this point and just not continue the series if sales ended up being very low. That first one is subtitled "Volume 1", so it seems the original plan is to present the entire series which would take roughly 4 books to do it (140 issues, 4 Annuals, and a few specials).

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by jdandns

[androolx]

On 4/9/2023 at 3:58 PM, Lazyboy said:

The Marvel Age ad with Jim Lee's art would seem to be what was first available to the public.

But so what? It's a single ad page. Nobody really even cares about Alpha Flight 51, which was almost certainly his first work assigned and finished for Marvel, even if they also got him to draw a little ad.

I think referring to the artwork at issue as an "ad" understates what it is.  Marvel itself, on the cover of Marvel Age Annual #3, stated work by Jim Lee was part of a "special all-new comics section by Marvel's top talents" (see pic below).  The artwork at issue is the only Jim Lee art in said section.

 

[Semicentennial]

On 4/9/2023 at 5:04 PM, androolx said:

I think referring to the artwork at issue as an "ad" understates what it is.  Marvel itself, on the cover of Marvel Age Annual #3, stated work by Jim Lee was part of a "special all-new comics section by Marvel's top talents" (see pic below).  The artwork at issue is the only Jim Lee art in said section.

Regardless of which came first, it's still an ad for Alpha Flight 51.  His early artwork isn't anything special which is why his early work isn't very valuable.  

[jdandns]

I was reading those Alpha Flights right off the rack as they were published and you could see right away he had something, though.

His first issue of X-Men hit the stands less than 2 years after his AF debut, so he tightened it up pretty quickly. 

[revat]

Are we assuming publishing date automatically coincided with the date the actual book hits the stands? 
 

I would think the actual release date would have more bearing