Writers Guild of America (WGA) strike news 2 2

[TupennyConan]

$47m is very low.

What exactly are ALL the asks? Has WGA published a simple bullet point list for the general public's consumption? Seems like an important public relations item.

If not, WGA could have a chabot write a great one in a couple seconds.   

 

[Bosco685]

On 5/2/2023 at 12:35 PM, Bosco685 said:

Turns out part of the strike has to do with streaming service show practices (22-episode traditional shows are now 6-10 episode shows leading to less committed pay).

 

What a Writers' Strike Means for Viewers at Home

 

Right out of the gate the WGA had published its wants from studios.

[RobAnybody]

$47 million is what the WGA says it would cost. I don't believe that number any more than I would if the studios said it would cost $8.7 trillion.

How would you even calculate the "cost" of something like "no using AI" anyway?

[TupennyConan]

On 9/6/2023 at 7:26 AM, Bosco685 said:

Right out of the gate the WGA had published its wants from studios.

Very helpful, particularly with the AI issue.

Could you please post or repost any similar SAG document? 

[fantastic_four]

The AI moratorium is the long-term concern.  What will be different in 3 years when a hypothetical new contract ends?  Nothing, aside from AI screenplay writers being even better.

They just need to drop that part of their demands.  Automation has been putting humans out of work for thousands of years.  What is up with Hollywood writers thinking they deserve an immunity to it that nobody else has?  

[CAHokie]

On 9/6/2023 at 4:18 PM, fantastic_four said:

The AI moratorium is the long-term concern.  What will be different in 3 years when a hypothetical new contract ends?  Nothing, aside from AI screenplay writers being even better.

They just need to drop that part of their demands.  Automation has been putting humans out of work for thousands of years.  What is up with Hollywood writers thinking they deserve an immunity to it that nobody else has?  

What about people being scanned and added to scenes they were never in? That’s a hard no.

[drotto]

On 9/6/2023 at 4:34 PM, CAHokie said:

What about people being scanned and added to scenes they were never in? That’s a hard no.

I do not like it, but if an actor signs the consent to allow the scanning, is that not their decision? What if the studio offers them a residual or fee each time the scan is used? From what I understand, in existing cases like Tarkin in Rouge One, the family signed off on it, and the estate was payed for likeness. I think several actors have already signed the use of their likeness over to studios. 

[fantastic_four]

On 9/6/2023 at 4:34 PM, CAHokie said:

What about people being scanned and added to scenes they were never in? That’s a hard no.

I'd have to see the wording of what they're demanding.  If an actor wants to sell their digital self they should be able to, but if they don't they shouldn't have to.  When it has happened so far was their language in the contracts they signed that they breezed past too quickly that allowed the studio to use their digital avatar in other content?  Without the context of what has happened and what exactly the WGA is demanding I don't have an opinion.

[Bosco685]

On 9/6/2023 at 12:15 PM, TupennyConan said:

Very helpful, particularly with the AI issue.

Could you please post or repost any similar SAG document? 

I think those were the key elements from the WGA. Then there was just the summary of what will happen if this doesn't get worked out.

On 5/2/2023 at 12:49 PM, Bosco685 said:

The 'so what' of the matter:

Quote

What Happened During the Last Writer’s Strike?
The last writer’s strike happened 15 years ago, in November 2007, and lasted until February 2008. There were similar issues on the table—namely, residuals and what was then called “new media,” which we now call streaming. The WGA successfully laid the groundwork for covering streaming services before Netflix or Amazon got into producing their own content, which meant that when they did, they had to hire Guild writers to do so.

 

During the strike, the networks almost universally suffered; they all noted a significant drop in viewership, and many networks fired staff in order to compensate for the lack of production work. At that time reality shows and reality television were not covered under the WGA, and many reality shows were ordered at networks. Very few of those shows stuck around. Many showrunners, actors, and late-night hosts vocally supported the strike and marched alongside writers.

 

What Does the WGA Strike Mean For Sci-Fi and Fantasy?
One source told Variety, “The writers’ concerns are completely and objectively valid, which has the studios and producers a bit more rattled than they’d like to admit.”

 

The truth is that the strike would have to be protracted before there was any noticeable change in film or television output. The first and hardest hit will be the nighttime talk shows, who will not have writers working, and who will not be able to perform any work that would have been written by a Guild member—and in fact, have already started announcing hiatus plans. Remember when Conan O’Brien literally spun his wedding ring on his desk to take up time rather than attempt to go against the WGA demands?

 

Regardless, the studios stand to lose a lot of money. Fifteen years ago, estimates ranged widely on the effect of the strike on the bottom line, anywhere from $300 to 500 million. According to Bloomberg, the City of Los Angeles lost $1.5 billion. What a strike means is that writers across all genres, media, and services are going to stop writing and will refuse to do any kind of work until the union has reached an acceptable agreement. Scott Purdy told Yahoo Finance that “consumers should prepare for some of their favorite TV shows to be delayed and to potentially enter a period where there’s a limited amount of new content to watch.”

 

Despite the fact that it might take a while for audiences to see the reprecussions on screen, two of the biggest, most expensive shows in television—HBO Max’s House of the Dragon and Amazon’s The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power—are currently in production and filming their upcoming seasons. In 2007-2008, showrunners, also known as multi-hyphenate writer-producers, were asked to continue production duties, but many cited their alliance with WGA and refused to continue working and were fired.

 

There’s also the fact that the strike is occuring during the “For Your Consideration” event schedule for the Emmys. Many shows are doing special FYC events across LA and NYC, and it’s unclear how a strike will affect the FYC campaigns or how writers, showrunners, and actors will respond during a strike when they are supposed to be promoting their work from 2022. While not in the FYC schedule this year, Good Omens is another example of completed work being affected—Neil Gaiman said on Twitter that while the show was “completed and handed in,” he “may not be able to promote it” as he’d hoped.

 

Although Teamsters and SAG-AFTRA have advised their members to continue to work, they stand with the WGA. However, there are some protections for workers written into both Teamsters and SAG contracted workers who refuse to cross a physical picket line if they would have to do so to get to work.

 

What Does This Mean for Audiences at Home?
This is a good thing. After the writer’s strike ended in 2008, we got some of the best television we had seen in years—critic Emily St. James notes that the subsequent seasons of Breaking Bad and Mad Men, for example, were some of the best we had ever seen. Other shows like Party Down, Community, and even Kings got their chance to show off on channels that usually wouldn’t have greenlit those projects. Sure, reality television kind of sucked for a while, but none of it lasted very long. And yes, maybe the writer’s strike likely led to the renewal of The Apprentice, which elevated Donald Trump’s profile, which might have led him to run for president in 2016, but who truly knows!

 

The point here is that writers are on strike because they cannot live under the current conditions. Nobody wants to go on strike—it genuinely sucks. Speaking from experience, it’s stressful and scary and overall not a good time. But this will make Hollywood better. This will make writing better. It will support new talent, give people a chance to establish themselves as writers, and ultimately, it will lead to some absolutely incredible film and television. The world deserves good film and television. And film and television writers deserve to earn a living.

 

[CAHokie]

On 9/6/2023 at 4:38 PM, drotto said:

I do not like it, but if an actor signs the consent to allow the scanning, is that not their decision? What if the studio offers them a residual or fee each time the scan is used? From what I understand, in existing cases like Tarkin in Rouge One, the family signed off on it, and the estate was payed for likeness. I think several actors have already signed the use of their likeness over to studios. 

I think being paid for it is the key. Not we hired you for today, but by the way we need a scan we can use anytime. Don’t like it, go home.

(Not saying that happens but it needs to be stopped from happening). 

[CAHokie]

I don’t think selling the rights to ones image is the issue. That’s moving the goal post a bit. Its the scanning and using someone and only paying them for the original day’s work.

[Bosco685]

On 9/6/2023 at 4:45 PM, CAHokie said:

I don’t think selling the rights to ones image is the issue. That’s moving the goal post a bit. Its the scanning and using someone and only paying them for the original day’s work.

That's the bigger concern if it was me.

You paid me at a point in time to scan my image. So the studio now assumes in perpetuity they own your likeness and owe you nothing further.

[CAHokie]

On 9/6/2023 at 4:51 PM, Bosco685 said:

That's the bigger concern if it was me.

You paid me at a point in time to scan my image. So the studio now assumes in perpetuity they own your likeness and owe you nothing further.

Exactly! I think this article breaks it down perfectly. Apologies if someone already posted it. There are a few AI threads going on.

https://www.npr.org/2023/08/02/1190605685/movie-extras-worry-theyll-be-replaced-by-ai-hollywood-is-already-doing-body-scan#:~:text=Grace Widyatmadja%2FNPR-,While working as a background actor on the the Disney%2B,create digital replicas of themselves.
 

 

[fantastic_four]

On 9/6/2023 at 4:44 PM, CAHokie said:

I think being paid for it is the key. Not we hired you for today, but by the way we need a scan we can use anytime. Don’t like it, go home.

(Not saying that happens but it needs to be stopped from happening). 

Why does it need to be stopped?  If it's not in the contract then yes, it has to be stopped.  But if that's the case a strike isn't the resolution, a civil lawsuit is.  I'm guessing since this is a strike instead of a lawsuit there has been language in their contracts giving the studios free reign to use their digital avatar in the future.

Big stars would just never sign that contract.  I don't see why such a contract shouldn't be allowed for unknown actors.  If they care they don't sign, if they don't they sign.  If you're an extra why would you care?  You're not doing it for a living anyway so I would imagine most extras would sign their digital selves away--and in most cases amused if they ever see themselves used in another way other than the scenes they explicitly shot.

[fantastic_four]

On 9/6/2023 at 4:59 PM, CAHokie said:

Exactly! I think this article breaks it down perfectly. Apologies if someone already posted it. There are a few AI threads going on.

https://www.npr.org/2023/08/02/1190605685/movie-extras-worry-theyll-be-replaced-by-ai-hollywood-is-already-doing-body-scan#:~:text=Grace Widyatmadja%2FNPR-,While working as a background actor on the the Disney%2B,create digital replicas of themselves.
 

 

I'm with the writers and actors on the majority of their demands, but not this one.  Yes, real human extras will eventually become completely obsolete.  So what?  So will plenty of professions--accountants, lawyers, etc etc.

Roy will remember this line of thinking because he and I have discussed automation replacing humans for years in the Water Cooler.  All of these anti-AI provisions the WGA and SAG are pushing are inanely Luddite.  They're trying to turn the clock back on technology, but it's never worked before and it won't work here.  I mean, it might, it's certainly possible the studios will cave on this for this 3-year contract, but automation replacing human labor is inevitable.  You can't avoid it forever.

Edited September 6, 2023 by fantastic_four

[CAHokie]

On 9/6/2023 at 5:59 PM, fantastic_four said:

Why does it need to be stopped?  If it's not in the contract then yes, it has to be stopped.  But if that's the case a strike isn't the resolution, a civil lawsuit is.  I'm guessing since this is a strike instead of a lawsuit there has been language in their contracts giving the studios free reign to use their digital avatar in the future.

Big stars would just never sign that contract.  I don't see why such a contract shouldn't be allowed for unknown actors.  If they care they don't sign, if they don't they sign.  If you're an extra why would you care?  You're not doing it for a living anyway so I would imagine most extras would sign their digital selves away--and in most cases amused if they ever see themselves used in another way other than the scenes they explicitly shot.

I don’t ask this as an insult, but to know where you are coming from. Have you ever been involved in a Hollywood production? Some sets are like a family, others are….not.

You do realize that just about every actor was an extra or unknown at some point right? Imagine if you could have scooped up the rights to Denzel, DiCaprio, or Pacino before they were household names.

Of course big stars would never sign it. They are already stars. But what about the person on their first role that is scared and do whatever is asked of them? They are trying to make it in the industry and they have a good memory. Hollywood may seem big but It isn’t. If someone likes you because of their interaction with you today you will get work tomorrow. If they don’t….well have fun working at Starbucks.

On 9/6/2023 at 6:07 PM, fantastic_four said:

Yes, real human extras will eventually become completely obsolete.  So what? 

You realize that it also sets the mood and atmosphere right? Talk to some big name actors and they will tell you they need that to get into the role. No one wants to do scenes in a baron sterile environment with nothing around them but empty chairs. 

[fantastic_four]

On 9/6/2023 at 6:32 PM, CAHokie said:

You do realize that just about every actor was an extra or unknown at some point right? Imagine if you could have scooped up the rights to Denzel, DiCaprio, or Pacino before they were household names.

If you think you have talent--either natural or from varying amounts of training--then you don't sign your digital rights away.  If you don't, you do.  Or you don't, it's up to you.  So yes, real actors won't be starting out as extras anymore.  Lengthy performances that are completely automated are still quite a ways off, and I doubt most of us in this forum live to see AI versions of the next Denzel, DiCaprio, or Pacino giving Oscar-worthy performances crafted by computer animators.  If real actors--even unknown ones--hold out the studios won't have much choice but to have a different contract for them.

All of this is short-term anyway.  Actors eventually won't be human anymore; it's inevitable.  All labor eventually won't be performed by humans, but that's far further out.  Some actors will probably find employment for another few decades; maybe even for another half-century.  But their days are numbered.  They're numbered for most careers.  Which I'm sure sounds really negative to most who hear that thought.  It isn't.  Automation replacing humans will be a great thing, eventually.

[CAHokie]

On 9/6/2023 at 6:52 PM, fantastic_four said:

So yes, real actors won't be starting out as extras anymore.

This….is not how things work.

[CAHokie]

Btw….They didn’t start off as extras or minor roles for and giggles. Its how most get into the industry and learn how filming scenes and the movements work.

Edited September 6, 2023 by CAHokie

[fantastic_four]

On 9/6/2023 at 7:05 PM, CAHokie said:

Btw….They didn’t start off as extras or minor roles for and giggles. Its how most get into the industry and learn how filming scenes and the movements work.

No young actor serious about being an actor will ever sign a contract giving away their digital rights.  If you do you'll essentially be ending your career, or at least shortening it once fully-digital actors become practical.  And if you're young that's going to happen long before you'd be ready to retire.

All of this applies to the current generation of kids in EVERY career.  There are a lot of white collar jobs I'd be extremely skeptical about sending my kids to college for from now on because we aren't far from them becoming obsolete just as actors are having to face.