Writers Guild of America (WGA) strike news 2 2

[Bosco685]

On 10/28/2023 at 1:37 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

Coming in late but since I'm an author who has two projects in pre-production, I can share how this affected my recent contract. 

The first offer stipulated that I'd be paid roughly 20% of a reasonable buy price and the rest would come from residuals if/when the show went into syndication.

My film agent immediately rejected it because streaming shows don't go into the old network syndication model, so they were offering me 80% of nothing. 

The contract I ended up signing had a fair price that would be paid on the first day of principle photography, then a set payment per episode produced. No residuals. 

It's been my understanding that SAG actors were offered similar pay structures, where most of their earnings would come from some vague, ill-defined source, if at all.

 

[CAHokie]

On 10/28/2023 at 1:37 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

Coming in late but since I'm an author who has two projects in pre-production, I can share how this affected my recent contract. 

The first offer stipulated that I'd be paid roughly 20% of a reasonable buy price and the rest would come from residuals if/when the show went into syndication.

My film agent immediately rejected it because streaming shows don't go into the old network syndication model, so they were offering me 80% of nothing. 

The contract I ended up signing had a fair price that would be paid on the first day of principle photography, then a set payment per episode produced. No residuals. 

It's been my understanding that SAG actors were offered similar pay structures, where most of their earnings would come from some vague, ill-defined source, if at all.

 

Congrats on the two projects. Well done!  Are they going to keep you on board while filming as an Executive Producer / writer to give input?

[drotto]

On 10/28/2023 at 12:55 PM, Bosco685 said:

Where's profits in that??

Residual (entertainment industry)

 

The profit is because shows picked up for syndication have a precieved continued demand and get ongoing views. Those views then result in the show generating revenue through continued syndication deals, ads, and the value of the IP in merchandising. Past initial release they continue to make money. Part of those continued revenue streams is then distributed back to creatives. 

 

Thus back to what feels like a circular argument at this point.  Streaming shows do not have the same post revenue streams that traditional TV has offered.  There is no syndication, and no reruns in the traditional sense.  Therefor, gauging what that show is worth beyond initial viewership figures (which are admittingly hidden) is extremely difficult. So without those things, by what metric can we calculate residuals? 

 

That is the question they are struggling to answer. I am not the person to solve it.  My best suggestion is streamers should see what percetage each show or property is related to the total views for the entire platform over a set period. Then establish residuals based on the percentage of views generated for each. Again, that would require viewship transparency. But that structure is something more solid you can understand and therfor negotiate on.

 

So if a show continues to get views creatives get paid. If there is a sudden spike in demand like Suites is currently having, they get paid more. The increased viewer percentage proves the shows continued value, and they deserve a cut of that. The other side if that is if a show fall below a certain level residuals will drop. Now that stinks for those creators, but if a show is not generating interest, is has stopped making money.

 

Congratulations to Mattereaterlad for getting those deals, and having an agent smart enough to realize this is a continued issue. It is a reminder also that talent needs to watch out for their own best interests and actually understand their contracts, and realize they can negotiate deals that work for them.

Edited October 28, 2023 by drotto

[Bosco685]

On 10/28/2023 at 3:44 PM, drotto said:

The profit is because shows picked up for syndication have a precieved continued demand and get ongoing views. Those views then result in the show generating revenue through continued syndication deals, ads, and the value of the IP in merchandising. Past initial release they continue to make money. Part of those continued revenue streams is then distributed back to creatives. 

 

Thus back to what feels like a circular argument at this point.  Streaming shows do not have the same post revenue streams that traditional TV has offered.  There is no syndication, and no reruns in the traditional sense.  Therefor, gauging what that show is worth beyond initial viewership figures (which are admittingly hidden) is extremely difficult. So without those things, by what metric can we calculate residuals? 

 

That is the question they are struggling to answer. I am not the person to solve it.  My best suggestion is streamers should see what percetage each show or property is related to the total views for the entire platformiver a set period. Then establish residuals based on the percentage of views generated for each. Again, that would require viewship transparency. But that structure is something more solid ypu can understand and therfor negotiate on.

 

So if a show continues to get views creatives get paid. If there is a sudden spike in demand like Suites is currently having, they get paid more. The increased viewer percentage proves the shows continued value, and they deserve a cut of that. The other side if that is if a show fall below a certain level residuals will drop. Now that stinks for those creators, but if a show is not generating interest, is has stopped making money.

 

Congratulations to Mattereaterlad for getting those deals, and having an agent smart enough to realize this is a continued issue. It is a reminder also that talent needs to watch out for their own best interests and actually understand their contracts, and realize they can negotiate deals that work for them.

That still doesn't fit your original premise: actors are paid residuals only when a show is profitable. This is based on the studio cutting contracts with networks that may lead to a new revenue streams.

Broadcast syndication

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Broadcast syndication is the practice of content owners leasing the right to broadcast television shows and radio programs to multiple television stations and radio stations, without going through a broadcast network. It is common in the United States where broadcast programming is scheduled by television networks with local independent affiliates.

Quote

Three common types of syndication are:

1. first-run syndication, which is programming that is broadcast for the first time as a syndicated show and is made specifically to sell directly into syndication;
2. off-network syndication (colloquially called a "rerun"), which is the licensing of a program whose first airing was on network TV or in some cases, first-run syndication;
3. public broadcasting syndication, more closely resembles the news agency model, where nominally competing networks share resources and rebroadcast each other's programs

 

[MatterEaterLad]

On 10/28/2023 at 12:46 PM, CAHokie said:

Congrats on the two projects. Well done!  Are they going to keep you on board while filming as an Executive Producer / writer to give input?

When books get optioned some producers and directors welcome input, while others want nothing to do with the author. So the EP thing can be ceremonial, or participatory.

So far I've been lucky to be part of the decision-making process, but once a director is signed, it's their project.  

[VintageComics]

On 10/27/2023 at 2:24 PM, fantastic_four said:

Not if the value of human labor falls significantly--in other words if AI and robotics ends up replacing a very large number of humans in the work force.  To date humans have always been able to find new work that automation can't do, but if automation starts to become capable of everything then capitalism begins to break down.  Money is a made-up concept that is meant to represent the value of labor, but if labor begins to lose value then money itself begins to also lose value.  There are many different patches to deal with this--income redistribution is the simplest one, which most countries are already doing to varying extents--but all of them have their own cons.

The extreme example of this in fiction is the Jetsons, Star Trek, or Wall-E.  If humans aren't needed to perform labor then money means nothing.

You and I have had great discussions for nearly 20 years, but as a general rule, on this topic I always disagree with you because you tend to take the human nature out of your discussions. 

Humans LOVE to work. 

They LOVE to create. 

They LOVE to produce. 

We're love to keep busy, be appreciated, be valued for our contributions. 

We love communities because we're wired that way. 

Our mental health, physical health, our success, our motivation and inspiration all depend on our human output. 

You take that way and you destroy society. 

Don't believe me? There is PLENTY of precedent for this. 

You've been a dad for years now. How do your children react when you force them to do things they don't want?

As a general rule, when you have authoritarian parents, you create mental illness, bitterness, anger, hate, retribution, overless aggressive or overly agreeable behavior (depending on the traumas).

There is LITERALLY no redeeming value to having authoritarian parents other than having them obey you by force. 

 

The reason top down institution of authority never works is because people don't see what you tell them. They see what you SHOW them, and when you have a society of hypocrites telling people how to act and what to do but don't do those things themselves, you create a very dangerous system that historically has always broken down into devastating consequences. 

That's what Maoism and Marxism were. They tried to give artificial, unnatural roles to members of society. Each person had their "part" to do, but NOBODY asked for those parts. The result was famine, war and murder and 100s of millions died because of it. 

And now, people who have no sense of history think it'll be good to try again.

Dude, they may push it through and if they do it'll be "for our own benefit" but let's call a spade a spade. This sort of system has NOTHING to do with benefitting you or me. 

 

The solution to capitalism MUST be from the bottom up. The people have to be better. That means raising better children. 

If you raise corrupt or broken families no matter WHICH economic system you're using, it will be corrupt and broken, because IT'S THE PEOPLE THAT MAKE UP THE SYSTEM. 

Your turn. 

[VintageComics]

My bestie @davidpg made a great point.

A poor system may even work for a while but it will nEVER work indefinitely in much the same way, you can be a stern, authoritarian parent but as soon as your kids are old enough to escape your rule, you've lost them.

 

Many people can't understand that, but that point is unassailable.

[CAHokie]

On 10/28/2023 at 8:48 PM, VintageComics said:

My bestie @davidpg made a great point.

A poor system may even work for a while but it will nEVER work indefinitely in much the same way, you can be a stern, authoritarian parent but as soon as your kids are old enough to escape your rule, you've lost them.

 

Many people can't understand that, but that point is unassailable.

Are you typing this stuff in only your underwear again?

[VintageComics]

On 10/28/2023 at 8:52 PM, CAHokie said:

Are you typing this stuff in only your underwear again?

[Bosco685]

 

[MatterEaterLad]

This is my grandpa's SAG card from 1945. They almost went on strike in 1948, but avoided it at the last minute. Same dance, different song. 

[Bosco685]

[Bosco685]

Quote

SAG-AFTRA and AMPTP continued to communicate intermittently Sunday as they close in on possibly reaching a new deal that could end the 108-day strike.

 

“There is a feeling of optimism” a guild source told Deadline today. “Looks like we’re in the final stretch,” a senior studio source added. Both sides expressed confidence a deal may be reached within days, but as before cautioned the situation is still fluid. From our understanding, SAG-AFTRA and the studios have gained “significant” traction on bridging their gap over what has been termed as success-based compensation for streaming shows and their casts.

 

Negotiation teams on both sides –SAG-AFTRA Chief Negotiator and National Executive Director Duncan Crabtree-Ireland and AMPTP President Carol Lombardini–virtually spoke several times throughout the day. Like yesterday, the studio’s CEO gang of four–Disney’s Bob Iger, Netflix‘s Ted Sarandos, Warner Bros Discovery CEO David Zaslav and NBCUniversal’s Donna Langley — were not present on today’s zoom calls.

 

There’s been an attitude shift in the air among studios who went into the weekend “underwhelmed” by the guild’s proposal on Friday to being more upbeat as both sides see potential common ground heading into this week.

 

[RobAnybody]

On 10/28/2023 at 5:33 AM, Bosco685 said:

Goes to show how the media outlets are used to distribute alternate reality, leading to a story being twisted.

I don't think it's being twisted.  The Writers didn't get a per sub addition to their deal.  The Directors didn't get a per sub addition to their deal.  This is something unique the actors requested.

[Bosco685]

On 10/29/2023 at 9:58 PM, RobAnybody said:

I don't think it's being twisted.  The Writers didn't get a per sub addition to their deal.  The Directors didn't get a per sub addition to their deal.  This is something unique the actors requested.

We may want to look at how each association tried to address the mystery of streaming residuals. Each came at it a different way.

In the case of the DGA, it made some headway. But didn't get the full transparency it desired and hoped other associations could get them there.

DGA Contract Vote Marks a Crossroads in Fight Over Streaming Data Transparency

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As part of its agreement with Hollywood studios, the Directors Guild of America was able to secure significant increases in residuals and tie them to future worldwide subscriber growth for streaming services. But some members say that’s not enough, as they want the DGA to push for streamers to divulge viewership data, a topic that has been a common thread among all the Hollywood unions.

 

While some third-party data companies like Nielsen and Samba TV have gathered some public data on the most watched TV shows and films on streaming services, streamers have kept complete information on the number of viewers that watch certain titles under heavy wraps, even to their creators.

 

This has created industry-wide frustration among writers, showrunners, directors and actors, who are often kept in the dark about the size of their audience. This can lead to shows being cancelled by streamers based on data that the creators of those shows either don’t see or only receive cherry-picked portions of, as creators of several animated Netflix shows accused the streaming service of doing when interviewed by TheWrap last year.

The WGA came up with its own approach. The challenge being the data access necessary to enforce the agreement goals.

How the Writers Guild’s New Streaming Residual Will Work

Quote

The success-based residual will pay writers of streaming series and movies a bonus if the equivalent of 20 percent or more of a streaming service’s U.S. subscribers watch it within three months of release. It won’t be an easy threshold to reach, based on the limited viewing data on streaming programming that’s publicly available, but it’s not impossible, either.

 

The WGA’s agreement with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers enshrines the recent definition of a streaming “view” as its measure of success. That equation — total viewing time of a movie or season of a show divided by its running time — is the basis for Netflix’s weekly top 10 charts and has been used selectively by other streamers, notably Disney+ in recent weeks, to tout their own successes.

 

The number of views over 90 days is then divided by the number of domestic subscribers a streaming service has (as of July 1 of that year). If the result — what the guild calls the series or movie’s “performance metric” — is 0.2 (20 percent) or higher, then writers get a 50 percent bonus of the fixed residual for “high-budget” programming on SVOD platforms. The bonus is based on fixed residuals for both domestic and foreign markets, in cases where streaming services pay the latter.

 

In its memorandum of agreement, the WGA offers a hypothetical streaming series with a run time of 5 hours, 48 minutes that draws 70 million hours of viewing time over its first 90 days of release, on a streaming platform with 50 million domestic subscribers. The performance metric equation of (70 million hours/5.8 hour runtime)/50 million subscribers yields a quotient of 0.241, meaning the show’s view count is equivalent to 24.1 percent of subscribers. The writers of each episode of that show would get the bonus residual.

So now SAF-AFTRA came at it in a less challenging way than viewership data (what studios are fighting revealing), and making it about subscriber counts (less challenging).

Assuming they go with either the DGA and WGA approaches that came with their own data challenges ignores those hurdles. Especially since all 3 were trying to crack the nut of how to work through the studios and their data restrictions.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Bosco685

[Bosco685]

 

[Bosco685]

 

[Bosco685]

 

[CAHokie]

[Bosco685]

Quote

The full complement of studio leaders from the major studios and the streamers are expected to attend Saturday’s bargaining session with SAG-AFTRA, The Hollywood Reporter has learned.

 

The two parties are convening on Saturday on Zoom after the studios made their latest offer to top negotiators for the union on Friday night. Studio heads including Disney’s Bob Iger, NBCUniversal’s Donna Langley, Netflix’s Ted Sarandos and Warner Bros. Discovery’s David Zaslav attended previous negotiations sessions with SAG-AFTRA this year, as well as with the Writers Guild of America before that union made its deal in late September — but Saturday’s group is expected to be more numerous.

 

Top execs from Paramount, Sony, Apple and Amazon will also be in attendance, meaning that all of the major legacy Hollywod studios will be represented alongside the three tech giants with major film and TV ambitions.

The Hollywood Reporter reached out to the AMPTP for comment.

 

It’s a serious sign as the SAG-AFTRA strike hits its 114th day. As of Saturday, sources gave differing answers as to when a deal might be done, with some more optimistic than others that negotiations could wrap up quickly at this juncture. The SAG-AFTRA negotiating committee met Saturday morning to prepare for the day’s bargaining session.