Writers Guild of America (WGA) strike news 2 2

[Bosco685]

On 9/20/2023 at 9:20 AM, drotto said:

To add fuel to the fire, from Variety, many show runners do not want and did not ask for these writer room requirements. So there is not unity in the ranks, and internal concerns about the effects of those demands.

 

 

Nobody asked for this,” said one prominent showrunner. “Every showrunner I know is against this. It doesn’t make sense to anybody.”

Another writer added: “All the showrunners that want a staff should be given a staff. I don’t think it’s important to force those few that don’t want a staff to have a staff.”

The WGA proposed in the spring that TV shows should hire a minimum of six to 12 writers, depending on the number of episodes in a season. At its meeting on Tuesday, they agreed to reduce that ask by one writer — but would not forgo the basic structure.

Several showrunners told Variety they did not want to be forced to hire writers who are not needed. In its worst form, they say, that would amount to “featherbedding,” an illegal labor practice in which employers are required by union rules to hire workers who do no work

https://variety.com/2023/biz/news/writers-strike-screenwriters-oppose-staff-mininum-1235694323/

What did we expect showrunners/producers to say in being forced into a minimum staff count to avoid overworking the key ones they earmarked as mandatory?

"We welcome these necessary changes to compensate for how we have been driving a much smaller writing and VFX staff into the ground. Thank goodness you finally called us on this!!

- Signed, Management"

[Bosco685]

On 9/20/2023 at 9:16 AM, drotto said:

Yes, implying the proposal would lead to bad writers being hired in oppinion. Regardless, I can not see how a 6 episode show must have 6 writers.  

Based on what credible reference point what minimum standards should be? 

We can talk around and around our opinions. But those in the industry are going to know the SLAs and staff counts to achieve them. Right?

[drotto]

On 9/20/2023 at 9:45 AM, Bosco685 said:

What did we expect showrunners/producers to say in being forced into a minimum staff count to avoid overworking the key ones they earmarked as mandatory?

"We welcome these necessary changes to compensate for how we have been driving a much smaller writing and VFX staff into the ground. Thank goodness you finally called us on this!!

- Signed, Management"

Sorry, I can not agree with mandating employee numbers.  For the most part it is the showrunners, most of whom are writers, job to determine how many people they need. Where is the evidence that rooms are shrinking?  In fact the article states most rooms already meet these requirements, but they stress they should not be forced too.

 

Yes, I do personally feel that extra people in the room when they are not wanted for whatever reason, could lead to an unhealthy environment. This could then have negative effects on the product. 

[RobAnybody]

On 9/20/2023 at 4:56 AM, Bosco685 said:

But remember. With sub-divisions like Marvel Studios the producers drive the show direction. Not the writers or directors. Movies and shows.

Then still, this shows the actual writers don't really matter. If the producers are running things, why pay the writers more money if they don't really contribute to the stories?

[Bosco685]

On 9/20/2023 at 10:04 AM, RobAnybody said:

Then still, this shows the actual writers don't really matter. If the producers are running things, why pay the writers more money if they don't really contribute to the stories?

So what do you recommend?

Maybe a pay-for-success executive metric where a third-party measures the results in the end.

I wouldn't put the full blame on the writers if the showrunners/producers controlling direction and results are the final approvers.

[Bosco685]

On 9/20/2023 at 9:57 AM, drotto said:

Sorry, I can not agree with mandating employee numbers.  For the most part it is the showrunners, most of whom are writers, job to determine how many people they need. Where is the evidence that rooms are shrinking?  In fact the article states most rooms already meet these requirements, but they stress they should not be forced too.

 

Yes, I do personally feel that extra people in the room when they are not wanted for whatever reason, could lead to an unhealthy environment. This could then have negative effects on the product. 

So what's the final solution to avoid the breadth and depth of trash distributed over the past few years?

[RobAnybody]

On 9/20/2023 at 10:18 AM, Bosco685 said:

I wouldn't put the full blame on the writers if the showrunners/producers controlling direction and results are the final approvers.

I don't disagree, but either the writers have given us terrible writing recently or they're not to blame but are mostly uninvolved in the actual writing. Neither view enhances their value.

[fantastic_four]

On 9/20/2023 at 9:16 AM, drotto said:

Clip from Deadline in May outlining the WGA writer room requirement demands.

 

Before the WGA launched its strike a week ago, it had proposed minimum staffing for episodic TV writers rooms. For pre-greenlight rooms, it proposed “minimum staff of six writers, including four Writer-Producers.” For post-greenlight rooms, it proposed “one writer per episode up to six episodes, then one additional writer required for each two episodes after six, up to a maximum of 12 writers. Example: eight episodes requires seven writers including four Writer-Producers; 10 episodes requires eight writers including five Writer-Producers.”

 

Yes, implying the proposal would lead to bad writers being hired in oppinion. Regardless, I can not see how a 6 episode show must have 6 writers.  These guideline are purely about forcing studio to hire more people then they may want or need, and nothing about the quality of the show. They are trying to force studios to hire more people than they may need in a possibly shrinking job market.  I know unions exist to get their workers jobs, but this seems extreme.

I agree with most of the WGA and SAG demands, but not most of the AI ones or this one.  I heard about this one early on, and there is no way the studios are signing off on this.  It's completely disconnected from reality to an extent that it's almost certainly a major reason the studios haven't even wanted to negotiate on terms.

[fantastic_four]

Another note about the writer's room composition--the reason I heard about it early on is I listened to Marc Bernardin defend it on the "Fatman Beyond" podcast he does with Kevin Smith.  He explained the historical career path that writers have been on and how if the writer's room isn't structured in a specific way then there's no path for new writers to learn the trade.

All I could think at the time was OK, that makes some sense as long as I assume screenwriting is magically different from every other industry and I ignore the history of unions attempting to control how things are made to this degree--but you just can't cling to the way things have always been done as the only possible way to do them.  I get the challenge Bernardin is referring to, but writers will find ways to overcome the challenges as time goes on.  Reorganizing workflows is a part of EVERY business, and companies just can't let unions dictate how work is organized down to that level.  Auto workers have tried stuff like this on and off over the past century, and that's one of the major reasons Japanese manufacturers were able to swoop in and make better cars for cheaper prices over the past half-century.  Every time unions try to fight change to an unreasonable degree the market ends up forcing companies to go around unions in one way or another.

[Bosco685]

On 9/20/2023 at 10:42 AM, RobAnybody said:

I don't disagree, but either the writers have given us terrible writing recently or they're not to blame but are mostly uninvolved in the actual writing. Neither view enhances their value.

Agreed in that in the end, that creative team delivered the results. They all had a hand in it.

But placing the blame on the writers and stating they deserve no raises (or no jobs) dismisses that fact. Better they all experience the benefits and the risks.

[CAHokie]

On 9/20/2023 at 9:30 AM, TupennyConan said:

craft services

Hey, don't ever blame craft services.   They provide unlimited drinks and candy.  The steak and shrimp were pretty good as well. 

[CAHokie]

On 9/20/2023 at 9:57 AM, drotto said:

es, I do personally feel that extra people in the room when they are not wanted for whatever reason, could lead to an unhealthy environment. This could then have negative effects on the product. 

Agreed.

[Bosco685]

Since the topic of minimum writers staff is sensitive for some yet they are jumping to conclusions it is to insert bad writers...

Variety - WGA Takes Aim at Mini Rooms With Proposal to Set Minimum Staff Level for TV Series

Quote

The Writers Guild of America will sit down with the studios on Monday, and high on the agenda is setting a minimum staffing level for writers rooms. That means the days when Mike White or Craig Mazin could write an entire season of prestige TV all by themselves could be coming to an end. The guild argues that studios are squeezing more work out of fewer writers over a shorter time span, and paying them less than they’re entitled to. And the union’s leadership believes that it’s time to set basic standards around the size and duration of a writers’ room.

Based on what the WGA published, the contributor for the concern was studios pushing for more with less.

Quote

The guild leadership is particularly focused on requiring TV shows to hire a set number of writers for a minimum period of time. In traditional TV, a group of 15 or more writers would work for a full season, churning out scripts that would go into production week after week. But in the streaming era, a showrunner might hire a handful of writers to quickly bang out the first few episodes, or even a full season — sometimes before the show is greenlit. Those writers are making guild minimums, rather than their typical fee, and they might not be around when the show goes into production.

Streaming services led to a shift in the common show approach. Including the creation of new writing terms to imply this was a different approach to common studio writing practices.

Quote

“They’ve got these new ideas, like mini rooms, that are trying to skirt that,” she said. “That’s why we’re having to set up all these new rules and norms.” Goodman said that even the term “mini room” is dismissive, saying “It’s a writers room. A writers room is a writers room. Work is work.”

So then with these new creative concepts, studios can jump in and out of contracts with writers as they see fit with no long-term commitment.

Quote

“The companies are getting something very very valuable… for much less than they should pay,” he said. “And writers who exist in that workspace aren’t making their year, can’t support themselves, can’t afford to live in L.A. And that’s just untenable.”

And on the topic of mini rooms, the concept was fleshed out further.

Quote

• Variety: Can you define a mini room? Can you be specific about the abuses you’re trying to remedy?
• Goodman: They’re doing the most important work in the life of a series. They’re gathering a group of writers in a room for a certain limited amount of time. And those writers create a series. They can create a whole season. All the writers in that room get paid minimum. So even if that show goes on to get picked up, those writers who participated in that – all they had was that minimum pay for that period. That’s probably the most egregious piece of the mini room problem. At the most important time in the life of the creation of a show, the writers are not being compensated for the work they’re creating. Generally the way it used to work, you had one writer write a pilot. Once it becomes a series, everybody involved is going to be paid overscale, get a chance to participate in its creation, and have pay that is more commensurate with their experience. In a mini room, again, writers with a lot of experience are getting paid the same as writers with no experience. And because it’s a smaller number of writers, it can exclude certain writers from that process. So there’s a million reasons why there needs to be guardrails put around that.

It's not as simple as "they just want to insert bad writers" or "work up the staff to suck cash away from studios". It is meant to address creative studio terms and techniques to work around common pay practices in the industry. Agree with it or not, this is not as straightforward as some would willingly assume and flipantly throw out, "Then go find another job!"

[D84]

On 9/20/2023 at 8:30 AM, TupennyConan said:

I'm ready & willing to blame studio execs, producers, directors, writers, actors, VFX folks, and craft services for the MCU sucking. Gaffers too, probably.    

They've all been "gaffers" at this point.

[Bosco685]

On 9/20/2023 at 2:58 PM, D84 said:

They've all been "gaffers" at this point.

Amen to that!

And assuming general consumers are willing to accept whatever they serve up.

[Bosco685]

Quote

Over 140 days into the WGA’s strike, the latest resumption of talks today between the scribes and studios and steamers are leaving nothing to chance.

Netflix’s Ted Sarandos, Disney’s Bob Iger, Universal’s Donna Langley and Warner Bros Discovery’s David Zaslav are joining negotiating teams for both sides sitting down at the AMPTP’s Sherman Oaks offices right now.

 

“There’s an impetus to find a real pathway to an agreement now, and to close that (deal), teh CEOs have to been directly engaged – to show the writers, we’re serious,” a studio insider told Deadline Wednesday.

 

[CAHokie]

Strike could be over today.  They can go back to producing 9 bad shows for every good one! 

[drotto]

On 9/21/2023 at 9:38 AM, CAHokie said:

Strike could be over today.  They can go back to producing 9 bad shows for every good one! 

That's being generous. 

[CAHokie]

On 9/21/2023 at 10:42 AM, drotto said:

That's being generous. 

I was giving them the benefit of the doubt on the stuff I don’t see. 

[drotto]

On 9/20/2023 at 2:56 PM, Bosco685 said:

Since the topic of minimum writers staff is sensitive for some yet they are jumping to conclusions it is to insert bad writers...

Variety - WGA Takes Aim at Mini Rooms With Proposal to Set Minimum Staff Level for TV Series

Based on what the WGA published, the contributor for the concern was studios pushing for more with less.

Streaming services led to a shift in the common show approach. Including the creation of new writing terms to imply this was a different approach to common studio writing practices.

So then with these new creative concepts, studios can jump in and out of contracts with writers as they see fit with no long-term commitment.

And on the topic of mini rooms, the concept was fleshed out further.

It's not as simple as "they just want to insert bad writers" or "work up the staff to suck cash away from studios". It is meant to address creative studio terms and techniques to work around common pay practices in the industry. Agree with it or not, this is not as straightforward as some would willingly assume and flipantly throw out, "Then go find another job!"

If I were the person that could solve this issue, I would be very rich.  The issue is the number of writing jobs is likely contracting over the next few years.  They days of streamers green lighting seemingly everything, and the need for that many writers has ended. So those 11500 members are going to be fighting for fewer jobs. That is a hard reality.

 

The second issue of "bad" content and poor job training is somewhat related.  In the rush to poor out content, writers who would never have gotten the opportunity or perhaps were less qualified were hired due to the shear number needed to pump out that content. Thus, the decline in quality, and ultimately the current fall.

 

A possible solution, bring back some of the old writers and show runners.  Less so to write, but more to train and control the writers room. Too many people without the needed skills were put into lead positions without the experience necessary. Those experienced people will then re-establish the training aspect. Get people ready to do the higher level jobs.  Also, establish a clear path for progression and promotion.

 

Second, establish a clear performance based residual system.  Writers that have worked on good shows, that make money, should get performance based residual incentives. This will help to insure good writers stay working, and people are encouraged to do their best work. This will also require far more numbers transparency.