Another Scam That Got Thru...

[14 of spades]

the issue involves alleged missed disassembly of the book. restoration or not, disassembled books (typically) always end up in GLODS or PLODS. i think this is the point.

[LordRahl]

You're right, it's not restored. So there is no reason for them to note the disassembly. They missed the added insert and hopefully now that they know it doesn't belong will correct the problem in the future. Somehow I don't see this as a big problem, it's very specific knowledge.

[awe4one]

You're right, it's not restored. So there is no reason for them to note the disassembly. They missed the added insert and hopefully now that they know it doesn't belong will correct the problem in the future. Somehow I don't see this as a big problem, it's very specific knowledge.

 

I disagree here...the comic was disassembled and put back together. Do you honestly not see the problem? Since when was disassembly of a comic suddenly OK?

 

And let's say you're collecting these inserts, and there are those out there that do, you're getting scammed because some dirtbag decided to "add" an insert into a key comic to boost his price. Using your logic the seller's clear and the buyer screwed...

 

Maybe you need to take a couple of those pills you accuse me of taking...

 

Jim

[LordRahl]

Disassembly is usually done in order to restore a book. In this case, it wasn't. If you want to take a book apart and put it back together again without doing anything to it, I honestly don't see a problem other than the fact I expect CGC to downgrade for any possible damage done during the process. The added insert is a SCAM on the part of the seller. I'm saying that CGC missed that and should now rectify the problem. I'm also saying that the knowledge required for them to have caught the added insert is very specific and probably not known to more than a handful of collectors who specialize in variants. My problem with this thread is that these two issues are being jumbled together and it's being implied that CGC missed resto and should have PLODed the book. The only thing that CGC should have noted is that there is an added insert that does not belong. This book should not have been given a PLOD.

[awe4one]

Susan Cicconi from the OS Grading Guide:

 

" I truly feel that once you remove staples from a comic book, you are altering the book; therefore I would consider this restoration. It is almost impossible to put the original staples back in the exact same way as when the book was manufactured.

 

And that's before we even get into the fact that something was ADDED to the comic. Something not there in it's original form...

 

Jim

[LordRahl]

I thought your contention was that no one alluded to this being restoration, yet now you're arguing that it is. I'll play along.

 

There was nothing added to "restore" the book to its original form/condition. It originally didn't have that insert. I don't see why Susan sees disassembly as resto since there is nothing being done to alter the book back to its original state. If the same staples are put back in exactly the same position, why does it matter that they were taken out? If they weren't put in exactly the same way then the book should be downgraded for the damage done where there is now 2 sets of staple impressions in the paper. If staples are just removed should that be considered resto as well or should the book just be downgraded?

[awe4one]

I thought your contention was that no one alluded to this being restoration, yet now you're arguing that it is. I'll play along.

 

I wasn't but your whacked contention that disassembly was somehow OK made me pull out the Guide.

 

There was nothing added to "restore" the book to its original form/condition. It originally didn't have that insert. I don't see why Susan sees disassembly as resto since there is nothing being done to alter the book back to its original state. If the same staples are put back in exactly the same position, why does it matter that they were taken out? If they weren't put in exactly the same way then the book should be downgraded for the damage done where there is now 2 sets of staple impressions in the paper. If staples are just removed should that be considered resto as well or should the book just be downgraded?

 

At the very least it should be in a GLOD...but after getting clarification from a resto expert, I have to say it's more suited to a PLOD...maybe it wasn't affected structurely but it definitely was in terms of perceived desirability. I could also argue that the centerfold cardboard insert does indeed affect the original structure of the book...

 

Jim

[LordRahl]

Some of these same resto experts don't think that pressing is resto, I don't see you blindly following that sentiment. Restoration-noun-the returning of something to a former condition, place or owner. the repairing or renovating of a building, work of art, etc. There was nothing repaired or returned to a former condition on this book. Any structural damage done with the disassembly and subsequent reassembly as well as addition of the insert should be treated as exactly that - DAMAGE.

[LordRahl]

The book should be a GLOD and probably would be if they knew that the insert was added. Again, completely different argument from some of the assertions being made earlier in the thread.

[awe4one]

Some of these same resto experts don't think that pressing is resto, I don't see you blindly following that sentiment. Restoration-noun-the returning of something to a former condition, place or owner. the repairing or renovating of a building, work of art, etc. There was nothing repaired or returned to a former condition on this book. Any structural damage done with the disassembly and subsequent reassembly as well as addition of the insert should be treated as exactly that - DAMAGE.

 

Nothing blindly about it...disassembly of a book is a major issue in my eyes...

 

And of course it hasn't been returned to it's original condition...it's a Frankenbook. You don't see it as a problem...I do...let's leave it at that...

 

My intent on highlighting this comic wasn't to slam CGC...and I'm not going to get dragged into another pressing argument in this thread. You want to go in that direction start another thread...

 

Jim

[tth2]

The book should be a GLOD and probably would be if they knew that the insert was added. Again, completely different argument from some of the assertions being made earlier in the thread.

Chris, I think you're being overly technical in your assessment here. We can debate whether it should be a PLOD or a GLOD, and to be honest I don't know if people in this thread have put too much thought into what the correct category should be, but notwithstanding I think there's clear consensus that what this book is NOT is a BLOD.

 

I'm not sure I agree with your definition of restoration either, because I think it's too narrow and loses sight of the big picture. Suppose someone has a regular book and removes the cover and replaces it with a 35 cent variant cover. By your definition, technically it's not restoration since the work wasn't done to return the book to a prior state. The fact that something like this, because of a very narrow interpretation of "restoration", gets put into a GLOD, while a book that has a married cover that is identical to the original cover gets put into a PLOD, just doesn't make sense to me.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Are you really arguing that CGC missing disassembly is "no big deal"?

[Sal]

This blue labeled CGC 9.2 Amazing Spider-Man #129 recently shown as sold on Comiclink has been married with the Mennen insert wrap...and possibly with the MJ insert as well...

 

 

 

seriously, BOC...funniest post ever. you win.

 

pmsl

[OldGuy]

There was nothing added to "restore" the book to its original form/condition. It originally didn't have that insert. I don't see why Susan sees disassembly as resto since there is nothing being done to alter the book back to its original state. If the same staples are put back in exactly the same position, why does it matter that they were taken out? If they weren't put in exactly the same way then the book should be downgraded for the damage done where there is now 2 sets of staple impressions in the paper. If staples are just removed should that be considered resto as well or should the book just be downgraded?

 

So you wouldn't mind paying top dollar for a book that I took apart and added a Playboy centerfold to as long as I didn't damage the book while doing it?

[Sal]

depends on the centerfold...are we talking Barbi Benton or...no, wait, actually it doesn't really matter.

 

 

no, i would have no problem with that. unless you slabbed it. then, there will be the throwing of hands

[OldGuy]

Right, because it's the slabbing of the restored book that makes it wrong, not the restoration it self. And heaven forbid CGC miss the restoration, then it's really wrong.

 

Undected restoration on a raw book = No problem

 

Undetected restoration on a CGC book = No problem

 

Undetected restoration on a CGC book later found to have restoration = the end of the world

[Sal]

actually, i was just going along the "if you slab it, then i can't see the pictures of the nekkid ladies" line of thought, but you have something there with the self-aware ironic take

[OldGuy]

I should have know you'd be more upset about not being able to see the boobies then about the restoration.

[Red Hook]

 

[Aman619]

boobies? where are the boobies??? did someone say boobies?