A raw 8.0 goes for 2000 but slabbed goes for 3000 why is this?

[ronm3-migration]

Can someone fill me in as to why this is? I am curious as to what the justification is for this. Any input would be appreciated.

[Timulty]

You should see some of the comic pricing sites. Slabbed goes for 5 times on some of those.

[ronm3-migration]

The reason I ask this is if buying raw is so safe from a reputable dealer and he supposedly knows how to grade and backs his grading why would they charge more for a slabbed copy?

There are 2 underlying reasons as to why but I would love to hear some more opinions.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Can someone fill me in as to why this is? I am curious as to what the justification is for this. Any input would be appreciated.

 

That's SNE, isn't it?

 

Easy answer...the slabbed copy is a VF.

 

The raw copy will be a FN+ and it will be restored.

[Timulty]

Oh, I see what you are saying. Okay, what I have heard is that dealers will jack their prices closer to slabbed because they feel that they could just slab the book and get the extra. So, why slab? Just jack the price up to near(but not quite near) the slabbed price. Make the extra profit without paying more to slab!!!!

[ronm3-migration]

Can someone fill me in as to why this is? I am curious as to what the justification is for this. Any input would be appreciated.

 

That's SNE, isn't it?

 

Easy answer...the slabbed copy is a VF.

 

The raw copy will be a FN+ and it will be restored.

 

Its an 8.0 no its a 7.0 flip a coin

[Aces]

The reason I ask this is if buying raw is so safe from a reputable dealer and he supposedly knows how to grade and backs his grading why would they charge more for a slabbed copy?

There are 2 underlying reasons as to why but I would love to hear some more opinions.

 

Buying raw is no safer just because the seller is a dealer.

[Flaming_Telepath]

The reason I ask this is if buying raw is so safe from a reputable dealer and he supposedly knows how to grade and backs his grading why would they charge more for a slabbed copy?

There are 2 underlying reasons as to why but I would love to hear some more opinions.

 

Buying raw is no safer just because the seller is a dealer.

 

And certainly not the one in question...

[ronm3-migration]

Buying raw is no safer just because the seller is a dealer.

 

I know that after dealing with Yee. But when you are buying they are guaranteeing you it is not restored.

Am I paying 3000 because they arent doing their job as a professional in their supposed area of expertise?

Why am I paying 1000 more?

Why dont they buy a blacklight and check themselves?

[Flaming_Telepath]

Why dont they buy a blacklight and check themselves?

 

Because then they couldn't charge you $2000 for the piece of junk?

[tth2]

Buying raw is no safer just because the seller is a dealer.

 

I know that after dealing with Yee. But when you are buying they are guaranteeing you it is not restored.

Am I paying 3000 because they arent doing their job as a professional in their supposed area of expertise?

Why am I paying 1000 more?

Why dont they buy a blacklight and check themselves?

A guarantee is only worth something if it's enforceable. So sure, maybe a dealer will guarantee a book's not restored, but how are you going to ever figure out if it's restored unless (i) you're able to detect it yourself immediately, (ii) you pay for a resto expert to look at it, or (iii) you send it to CGC? Are you going to do either (ii) or (iii) quickly? The more time that passes between the time you purchase from the dealer and the time you find restoration, the harder it will be for you to enforce the guarantee. I had quite a protracted struggle with a dealer over a X-Men #1 that I purchased in 1998 when I demanded my money back after it came back as a PLOD from CGC 3 years later.

 

To get back to your original question, you can view the price differential between the raw book and the slabbed book as a risk premium (and by the way, I'm not necessarily agreeing that the price differential is correct here). For the raw, you're getting a lower price because you're taking the risk that it might not be graded accurately by the selling dealer, and then if you ever decide to sell it, you're taking the risk that buyers will lowball you because they don't trust your grading and are worried about undisclosed restoration. In contrast, with the slabbed book, you're getting greater liquidity when you sell it because there is greater market acceptance that the grade is accurate and that it's not restored.

[LearnedHand]

A guarantee is only worth something if it's enforceable. So sure, maybe a dealer will guarantee a book's not restored, but how are you going to ever figure out if it's restored unless (i) you're able to detect it yourself immediately, (ii) you pay for a resto expert to look at it, or (iii) you send it to CGC? Are you going to do either (ii) or (iii) quickly? The more time that passes between the time you purchase from the dealer and the time you find restoration, the harder it will be for you to enforce the guarantee. I had quite a protracted struggle with a dealer over a X-Men #1 that I purchased in 1998 when I demanded my money back after it came back as a PLOD from CGC 3 years later.

 

Tim,

 

Yes, a guaranty is only worth something if enforceable. CGC offers no guaranty.

 

I suspect that an honorable dealer might be more inclined to work with a disgruntled customer than a grading company that is less susceptible to any isolated problems.

 

 

To get back to your original question, you can view the price differential between the raw book and the slabbed book as a risk premium (and by the way, I'm not necessarily agreeing that the price differential is correct here). For the raw, you're getting a lower price because you're taking the risk that it might not be graded accurately by the selling dealer, and then if you ever decide to sell it, you're taking the risk that buyers will lowball you because they don't trust your grading and are worried about undisclosed restoration. In contrast, with the slabbed book, you're getting greater liquidity when you sell it because there is greater market acceptance that the grade is accurate and that it's not restored.

 

Risks exist in both scenarios, and grading is fundamental. Without this ability, a person who cannot grade must locate a slabbed copy of every single book he needs to give himself comfort that he got that for which he paid – assuming of course that the purchaser feels that paying more for the same condition book, due to the slab, reconciles grade and price.

 

And it’s a fact that CGC does not detect all restoration (nor does it guaranty it will).

 

The higher price for the slabbed book, in my humble opinion, is because CGC takes the work and thought out of collecting for the typical hobbyist, and many people put a value on this. If people don't want to learn how to educate themselves on the fundamentals, they will always be slaves to what someone else tells them to think.

 

I agree with you on the selling side, as I see this as the biggest value for the premium paid. It keeps dealers honest and sellers realistic.

 

 

LH

[tth2]

Yes, a guaranty is only worth something if enforceable. CGC offers no guaranty.

Fixate much? I was talking about the so called guarantee from the dealers, which is a guarantee in the traditional sense of the word. Where did I imply in my post that CGC did or did not guarantee anything?

 

I suspect that an honorable dealer might be more inclined to work with a disgruntled customer than a grading company that is less susceptible to any isolated problems.

 

Assuming you're talking about undetected restoration, some dealers are honorable and others are not. Anyways, how do you know CGC hasn't made good on blue label books where they missed the restoration? With all the CGC baiters out there, I have yet to hear of anyone saying that it turns out their blue label book turned out to be a Ewert Special and CGC lowballed them on compensation to get such book back to take it out of circulation.

 

To get back to your original question, you can view the price differential between the raw book and the slabbed book as a risk premium (and by the way, I'm not necessarily agreeing that the price differential is correct here). For the raw, you're getting a lower price because you're taking the risk that it might not be graded accurately by the selling dealer, and then if you ever decide to sell it, you're taking the risk that buyers will lowball you because they don't trust your grading and are worried about undisclosed restoration. In contrast, with the slabbed book, you're getting greater liquidity when you sell it because there is greater market acceptance that the grade is accurate and that it's not restored.

 

Risks exist in both scenarios, and grading is fundamental. Without this ability, a person who cannot grade must locate a slabbed copy of every single book he needs to give himself comfort that he got that for which he paid – assuming of course that the purchaser feels that paying more for the same condition book, due to the slab, reconciles grade and price.

You're missing the point, because you're wrapped up in some metaphysical search for "truth". You might as well start worrying about whether the cash in your pockets is worth the paper it's printed on (hint, it's not). Remember I was just answering a question about why the discrepancy in valuations and explaining it in primarily economic terms based upon the fungibility of the different products.

 

The fact is that the market has generally accepted CGC's grades, and as long as a book stays in the same slab, that grade won't change and will remain with the book wherever it goes. The market assigns a premium to the fact that the principal attribute upon which a book's value is computed stays constant. You can debate whether the market's faith is justified, but the fact is the faith exists, even after all the recent scandals. On the other hand, the market has NOT generally accepted my grades. Therefore, if I buy a book at a certain grade from a dealer and then re-sell it, the market will view the grade that I assign to it and feel free to second guess it, even if I indicate that it was purchased as a certain grade from such dealer. Similarly, when the buyer of the book sells it later, he too will be subject to re-opening of the grades. So, besides the uncertainty discount that I mentioned in my original post, there is also a discount for the inconvenience of starting the grading/assessment at Square 1 every time.

 

And it’s a fact that CGC does not detect all restoration (nor does it guaranty it will).

Your statement presumes that there is some person out there who CAN detect all restoration. Please share the identity of this person, because I'm sure there are lots of people who would love to have 100% assurance on restoration.

 

The higher price for the slabbed book, in my humble opinion, is because CGC takes the work and thought out of collecting for the typical hobbyist, and many people put a value on this. If people don't want to learn how to educate themselves on the fundamentals, they will always be slaves to what someone else tells them to think.

There may be some truth in what you say, but I think the main reasons for the premium are as I stated above.

 

I agree with you on the selling side, as I see this as the biggest value for the premium paid. It keeps dealers honest and sellers realistic.

Didn't you just contradict yourself?

[LearnedHand]

Fixate much? I was talking about the so called guarantee from the dealers, which is a guarantee in the traditional sense of the word. Where did I imply in my post that CGC did or did not guarantee anything?

Hi Tim,

 

Yes, I fixate a lot. How did you ever guess

 

However, are you being this defensive, or are you kidding? The context was that buying from a dealer has inherent risks, and unless I misunderstood your comments, it sounded like you were saying that the way to ensure that the dealer is correct is to buy CGC-graded books, as though this is a panacea. I know of no perfect restoration detection system, but I don’t think the answer is to blindly assume that CGC is a panacea either. Prudence was my simple point.

 

You're missing the point, because you're wrapped up in some metaphysical search for "truth". You might as well start worrying about whether the cash in your pockets is worth the paper it's printed on (hint, it's not).

 

Yes, yes, I agree with your resale point. I did in my ealier post too. I stand by my statement, however, that grading is fundamental, which has nothing to do with resale value, and everything to do with being a prudent purchaser. I think your analogy to money would make more sense if you said that it’s not necessary for me to know the difference between a $1 bill and a $100 bill if I can pay someone to tell me the difference (I realize that even mine isn’t a perfect analogy).

 

I just don’t understand why many people act as though before CGC came to town it was impossible to buy books without being ripped off or ending up with unbeknownst restored books. The instance of that is, in my opinion, highly exaggerated, and promoted by CGC. I see it as a bit of a marketing scare tactic. People buy into it and voila! - a rationalization for the premium.

 

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Didn't you just contradict yourself?

 

 

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No contradiction. I think it was obvious that my first comments were relative to the buying side. The selling side is where I completely agreed with you. I am a notoriously tough grader and remember the days when I’d grade a book I wanted to buy as a VF (that the dealer was calling a Mint). Then, when selling, the same dealer might tell me it was no better than an F/VF.

 

By the way, CGC helps, but people have gained the most liquidity thanks to eBay. Without eBay-type avenues, you’d still be taking a slabbed book to a show and hearing the dealer’s song and dance about only being able to offer you about 40-60% of Guide. Now, you can simply let the market decide.

[tth2]

I just don’t understand why many people act as though before CGC came to town it was impossible to buy books without being ripped off or ending up with unbeknownst restored books. The instance of that is, in my opinion, highly exaggerated, and promoted by CGC. I see it as a bit of a marketing scare tactic. People buy into it and voila! - a rationalization for the premium.

Give me a little credit, Peter. My impression of the old days isn`t derived from second-hand stories and CGC propaganda. I lived in the old days. Yes, the good deals generally outnumbered the bad deals, but you only need to get ripped off a few times to put you off.

 

By the way, CGC helps, but people have gained the most liquidity thanks to eBay. Without eBay-type avenues, you’d still be taking a slabbed book to a show and hearing the dealer’s song and dance about only being able to offer you about 40-60% of Guide. Now, you can simply let the market decide.

I totally agree. I think CGC might not have taken off without the internet market having come into existence, although on the other hand the graded sports card and coin markets seem to have existed prior to the internet so the precedents did exist. But without a doubt the rise of eBay and CGC complemented each other perfectly.

[ronm3-migration]

I think the CGC premium is a bunch of bull-oney. if I go to metropolis and they grade a book a VF unrestored for 2000 i should get a VF unrestored for 2000. if there is a CGC graded VF it should only validate what the professional comic dealer already stated which was that it IS indeed a VF unrestored and at most i should pay for whatever it cost them to insure what they were telling me all along.

The dealers at first thought the CGC grading would jeopardize their raw market so they were against CGC at first.

Now they see how much money they can make off CGC and all have embraced it.

I think CGC was a major neccesity to the Comic Market and was long overdue but it comes down to the dealers once again taking advantage of the collectors.

Now I want someone to tell me that I am wrong and explain why?

To me the premium on CGC books tells me that I cant trust anyones grading but CGC.

If that is the case. I will help CGC become the largest buyer of Comics in the world.

let them become the dealer and I will buy directly from them.

[tth2]

I think the CGC premium is a bunch of bull-oney.

You can believe what you choose to believe, but it won`t change the facts. CGC books, particularly in higher grades, command a premium over non-CGC books. It`s a fact. Sounds to me like your beef is with Metro.

[ronm3-migration]

Sounds to me like your beef is with Metro.

 

Not at all. I just use them because they are the most well known.

Steve and Vinny take abuse all of the time they can shrug it off.

When you are number one you have to expect it.

 

You still didnt answer my question all you did was state what everyone already knows. Do you agree with the premium on a CGC graded book?

If so, why?

[tth2]

You still didnt answer my question all you did was state what everyone already knows. Do you agree with the premium on a CGC graded book?

If so, why?

For HG books, yes. As to why, the answers are in my response to LearnedHand above and also in the "What have you learned from the Ewert fiasco" thread.

[Norrin_Radd]

Do you agree with the premium on a CGC graded book? Yes, he does.

 

If so, why? One word.... certainty. The problem is CGC grades are starting to look less certain than collectors hoped they were.

 

Pass the .