DanJD Posted July 13 Author Share Posted July 13 (edited) On 7/13/2024 at 8:40 AM, Domo Arigato said: Some.....but possibly not all......of this is due to lighting and the fact that the CGC scan is a "head on" image. If you use extreme magnification, you can see hints of some of the damage even on the CGC scan. I've posted sections from the book below, with the customer provided images on the left, and the CGC provided images on the right. In the CGC images, one telltale sign to look for is the glare line from the lights that runs down the spine of the book (just a millimeter or two to the right of the spine edge). This glare line is straight when there is no damage...but you'll see it bow a bit when there's a bit of a crease, even if you can't actually see the crease itself. In this last comparison, you can't really see any damage in the CGC image.....but you can see where the glare line bows slightly in that area. This was a freshly pressed book after the signing event which clearly does not look pressed at all now. I made the above comment on the Wolverine Signing thread. The side profile is clearly bent in an arc. I see slight indents in the scans that serve as weak points in the book if bent and then significantly deeper ticks in the pictures with very obvious color breaks. The scan seems consistent with the grade. The pictures from when received do not. Edited July 13 by DanJD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadroch Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 On 7/10/2024 at 9:44 AM, JollyComics said: Issues with QC is never going away. Just when they figure out the answer, the questions change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domo Arigato Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 (edited) On 7/13/2024 at 9:34 AM, DanJD said: This was a freshly pressed book after the signing event which clearly does not look pressed at all now. I made the above comment on the Wolverine Signing thread. The side profile is clearly bent in an arc. I see slight indents in the scans that serve as weak points in the book if bent and then significantly deeper ticks in the pictures with very obvious color breaks. I have no doubt that the inner well is warped and has caused damage to the book. Someone had just mentioned they didn't see any of the damage in the image CGC made after encapsulation, and I was simply pointing out that there is definitely some there. My point is....differences in lighting and angle can affect how certain damaged areas appear in pictures/scans......which makes it hard to say if the inner case warping/damage happened right after encapsulation, or if the warping/damage occured later. Or, perhaps some damage occured during or right after encapsulation, and the warping/damage worsened over time. Either way, CGC needs to make it right for you. Edited July 13 by Domo Arigato DanJD, RockMyAmadeus and greggy 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterlogan2000 Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 On 7/13/2024 at 8:40 AM, Domo Arigato said: Some.....but possibly not all......of this is due to lighting and the fact that the CGC scan is a "head on" image. If you use extreme magnification, you can see hints of some of the damage even on the CGC scan. I've posted sections from the book below, with the customer provided images on the left, and the CGC provided images on the right. In the CGC images, one telltale sign to look for is the glare line from the lights that runs down the spine of the book (just a millimeter or two to the right of the spine edge). This glare line is straight when there is no damage...but you'll see it bow a bit when there's a bit of a crease, even if you can't actually see the crease itself. In this last comparison, you can't really see any damage in the CGC image.....but you can see where the glare line bows slightly in that area. Good catches. The angle of the scans will also play a part in hiding some of the spine issues. At the same time, I still think the damage in the photos provided by the OP show that the damage is more pronounced. In theory, if the warping worsened over time, so will the damage to the books in those same exact spots. Again, I'm just postulating here and combining this idea with the statements by CGC Mike that the Operations Manager inspected all books in the encapsulation area and found no evidence of damage. As an individual, I wouldn't go too far down this rabbit, but offered this as a potential explanation that CGC should fully investigate on their end. Domo Arigato and DanJD 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 On 7/13/2024 at 6:40 AM, Domo Arigato said: Some.....but possibly not all......of this is due to lighting and the fact that the CGC scan is a "head on" image. If you use extreme magnification, you can see hints of some of the damage even on the CGC scan. I've posted sections from the book below, with the customer provided images on the left, and the CGC provided images on the right. In the CGC images, one telltale sign to look for is the glare line from the lights that runs down the spine of the book (just a millimeter or two to the right of the spine edge). This glare line is straight when there is no damage...but you'll see it bow a bit when there's a bit of a crease, even if you can't actually see the crease itself. In this last comparison, you can't really see any damage in the CGC image.....but you can see where the glare line bows slightly in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraveDave Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 On 7/10/2024 at 9:09 PM, CGC Mike said: This book is being sent back to us. Upper management was made aware of this problem. It will be inspected very closely by our Operations Manager and vintage graders will most likely see it too. Then, it is to be pressed and regraded. He was in the encapsulation area today inspecting all submissions checking for this problem, and found no evidence of it. He also stated that nobody has sent any books back except the ones that I helped people with on the forum. So, I do not believe this is a widespread problem based on the feedback I have been given from the team, as other vintage graders have also inspected books that have been encapsulated. My “hit rate” of 2024 graded books with the warped inner well is 1 of 1. It isn’t an 80s or 90s book but rather early 70s. It was not immediately noticeable to me but when I saw the other thread, I checked and indeed it is warped. No spine ticks / apparent spine damage on mine (not saying no damage at all, just hard to fully assess)… but at its value (several thousand $), grade (9.8) and rarity (sole highest graded on census) I am not happy. I have sent an email to customer support to not proceed to grade my recent submissions (unlimited value books), unless I can be assured this issue has been rectified. It appears that instead of correcting the issue, they have continued to grade books? @CGC Mike is there anything else for me to do besides the email and a planned Monday call to CS? I do not want more books damaged. I will address the book that is warped separately but my first concern is to not have my other books damaged by a faulty process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator CGC Mike Posted July 14 Administrator Share Posted July 14 On 7/14/2024 at 7:22 AM, BraveDave said: @CGC Mike is there anything else for me to do besides the email and a planned Monday call to CS? I do not want more books damaged. I will address the book that is warped separately but my first concern is to not have my other books damaged by a faulty process. Hi Not that I can think of. Mike BraveDave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanJD Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 Based on the last communication I received, it seems that they will not be re-pressing and re-grading the book as I was told by Mike and will just be “reholdered and returned to me”. That is obviously unacceptable. The CGC inner well clearly bent and damaged my book. I would not trust sending in a book to be graded by this company. We are paying for a product that is meant to preserve and protect our collectibles and instead it is doing the opposite and actively damaging the books. Based on the number of people having issues, there is a big risk that the book will suffer unnecessary damage with no assistance to resolve the problem. I am still waiting for the operations manager to follow up with me, but it seems I am getting no support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanJD Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 ADMINISTRATOR CGC Mike Posted 12 minutes ago On 7/22/2024 at 8:03 PM, DanJDsaid: Based on the last communication I received, it seems that they will not be re-pressing and re-grading the book as I was told by Mike and will just be “reholdered and returned to me”. “I e-mailed the team they just replied back and apologized for misspeaking. Your book is going to be pressed and regraded. “ Follow up from Mike…Thank you sir. mysterymachine and CGC Mike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
