Updated Me Page - Movie Hype Idiocy 1 1

[Darthdiesel]

No, what's wrong with loving both??? Money and reading comics? One can't provide a service and enjoy the books as well? Someone has got to sell you the books you read, right? Go to your Barnes and noble or Waldenbooks then? Oh that's right ...they don't sell comics? Darn, guess you'll have to deal with those morally deficient comic sellers on eBay...

 

That attitude is what I got on you about. God forbid someone sells comics for a living...they are instant scum for doing exactly that - selling...for a living....

 

yeah and I'm one of those people who enjoy a good comic as well. Just because I sell them, in your worldview, this prior statement of mine can not be...

 

For some reason people like you feel entitled to own the very best of everything and should be handed to you. Don't work hard for anything, anytime you have to exert yourself, it becomes too much so you complain and whine until someone takes care of you. Should I sell you all my comics regardless of market demand and value at their 15 cent, 20 cent cover price? Short of this, nothing will stop "people like oyu" from person_without_enough_empathyin and moanin...

 

Sometimes I just get fed up...this exercise is futile..You beleive one way and I another..

 

 

Yeah I just bid on your Sopranos DVD...hope I win. SO then I can haggle the price with you because I as a customer and DVD collector should be "entitled" to the cheapest price possible for the love of my hobby...

[PovertyRow]

For some reason people like you feel entitled to own the very best of everything and should be handed to you. Don't work hard for anything, anytime you have to exert yourself, it becomes too much so you complain and whine until someone takes care of you. Should I sell you all my comics regardless of market demand and value at their 15 cent, 20 cent cover price? Short of this, nothing will stop "people like oyu" from person_without_enough_empathyin and moanin...

 

Well let's see. Being a network administrator I am on call 24 hours a day 7 days a week. The past four weeks alone I had to go in Friday night and between 8-12 hours on Saturday because a StorageTek tape backup machine was screwing up. And I am on salary so I get no extra pay for that. I WORK HARD for my money.

 

As far as "the very best" goes - literally 90% of the books in my collection are fine-fine+ Jungle/Jumbo/Fight/Sheena and pre-code horror. All 90% are not slabbed and Fine-F+ and because of that I break them out of the mylar and READ the damned things.

 

I am in this for the love of the art, stories and their relevance to past times. That is why I collect and read these books.

 

I would LOVE to know where I have EVER posted that 15 and 20 cent books are my thing.

 

And I would ALSO love to know why you go flying to hell and back off the handle anytime I mention that I am in this for the love of the books. What is the bunion I am stepping on? Gawd.

[PovertyRow]

God forbid someone sells comics for a living...they are instant scum for doing exactly that - selling...for a living....

 

Not at all. Some of my favorite folks are comic dealers from the old school. the ones who know that the phases are just that and that maintaining real standard

 

Yeah I just bid on your Sopranos DVD...hope I win. SO then I can haggle the price with you because I as a customer and DVD collector should be "entitled" to the cheapest price possible for the love of my hobby...

 

Fine - I will simply cancel your bid, ban you from future bidding on my auctions, and this post, which I have print-screened, should be sufficient proof.

 

Edited - have cancelled all your bids on all my items. If your reaction is that insane I want no part of you. The mark as editied will reflect this edit.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2002 by povertyrow

[Darthdiesel]

Not at all. Some of my favorite folks are comic dealers from the old school. the ones who know that the phases are just that and that maintaining real standard

 

So no new dealers/sellers are worth a damn? I guess this is the "bunion" that you keep stepping on. Maintaining the real standard - come on with that load of . It's just because they don't sell CGC books at your so called "outrageous" multiples of NM guide that you "respect" them. Don't you think they would if they could?

 

Too bad if you actually cancel my bid, as I actually do come through an pay for all my auctions regardless of what I think of the seller personally. Everytime, I see you come out with a post, touting your "I ,collector, holier than thou, lowly seller" attitude, it will get you a nice "flying off to hell and back" post.

 

Plain and simple, guess I just don't like you. Do you see me flying off the handle for anyone else (maybe CI, but not as of late) ? Maybe it's the latent disdain in your retorts to my posts that incite such a flow of bile from my innards into these forum posts. No law says I have to like you. Currently I don't. Big deal. It's late and you are getting me cranky again.

 

 

[PovertyRow]

Everytime, I see you come out with a post, touting your "I ,collector,holier than thou, lowly seller" attitude, it will get you a nice "flying off to heel and back" post.

 

In one post I used the word "love" - that is what initially ticked you off into this insanity. Do me a favor - show me all the "holier than thou" posts I have made that are for fact and not in your own head's interpretation.

 

And I did ban you from all of my auctions. I posted as a reason "Has threatened me in public post with bidding on my item then haggling for it." You did. Not sure why you decided to take that direction. It is not a good one.

[Darthdiesel]

How am I going to compete or break into the market?

 

Why would you want to?

 

This is what ticked me off tonight...care to explain that there was no sarcasm in that quip?

 

I'm glad you "love" comic collecting and reading. That is positive and applaudable.

 

Whether you ban me on your auctions or not is your call. You taking that "haggling bit" literally is ridiculous, but I can see where you would be scared to deal with me.

[PovertyRow]

This is what ticked me off tonight...care to explain that there was no sarcasm in that quip?

 

I'd be happy to. There WAS no sarcasm. Right now that "market" seems to be on a downslide. I think you will agree that the prophecies of a year or two ago where "any cgc in the 9's is going to break records" (and several "authorities" were making that prophecy) are now defunct.

 

The CGC phenomena has proven what has only been specualated about for some time. I am not sure why there even WAS speculation, since comic collecting as a "hobby" with some force has been going on since the mid-sixties. But what has happened is that the 9.0 and the 9.2 were supplanted by the 9.4 - and now the 9.4 is often not good enough and the 9.6 and above are where the current market is.

 

How long will this last? How long CAN this last? But again I say, if the market goes down then I can buy my books cheaper.

 

But you have told me, Darth, "Everytime, I see you come out with a post, touting your "I ,collector, holier than thou, lowly seller" attitude, it will get you a nice "flying off to hell and back" post." I still want to know where all those posts are that have gotten you so ticked off.

 

Whether you ban me on your auctions or not is your call. You taking that "haggling bit" literally is ridiculous, but I can see where you would be scared to deal with me.

 

I take any remark like that, made with a straight face, seriously. Scared to death to deal with you? Not at all. Just not worth the potential hassles you said you would give. And why would you even say something like that without even an emoticon unless you meant it?

[Kevin Boyd]

Hey Darth,

 

I think maybe he just hit a nerve with that remark. You've got to admit the modern market can be pretty risky... and considering that many older collectors have abandoned new books entirely, a little sarcasm from that group is not unexpected.

 

You don't need their approval... don't let this stress you out.

 

Kev

[PovertyRow]

You don't need their approval... don't let this stress you out.

 

That is very true. You need no one's approval but your own. Dead serious.

[Darthdiesel]

Pov- taking kev's advice in mind, let me try this sans vitriol...

 

Right now that "market" seems to be on a downslide.

 

This is opinion relative to which part of the market you are looking at. Supply has gone up for certain books in higher grade, therefore demand has also decreased once sated.

 

I think you will agree that the prophecies of a year or two ago where "any cgc in the 9's is going to break records" (and several "authorities" were making that prophecy) are now defunct.

 

I agree to a certain extent, but not enough was known about CGC back then to make a qualified informed statement. Maybe if someone said "any CGC'd key issue in the 9.6 and up range is going to break records" they would have been closer to the money.

 

The CGC phenomena has proven what has only been specualated about for some time. I am not sure why there even WAS speculation, since comic collecting as a "hobby" with some force has been going on since the mid-sixties. But what has happened is that the 9.0 and the 9.2 were supplanted by the 9.4 - and now the 9.4 is often not good enough and the 9.6 and above are where the current market is

 

I agree here 100%. With the increase of supply of available higher grades, the market has shifted, but isn't that natural? I don't know enough economics to make the informed call there. More people are using CGC and doesn't that foster the collecting hobby when all is said and done? Those issues locked away in collections would have stayed there if not for the impetus of providing a higher standardized grade key in better condition than anyone else. It will last as long as someone is willing to buy CGC books and someone is wiling to sell them.

 

Maybe I was overboard, and it's all in my head, but you just rub me the wrong way...I've gotten into it with you on another occassion and I'm not about to waste my time digging up old wounds just to get ammo on you as to why I don't think you are in favor of CGC sellers making a buck.

 

And if you hold me in such a light as to take my comment about tampering with your auction seriously, then you already have a formed low opinion of me...what's the point in changing that. You want emoticons?

[Darthdiesel]

The wise voice of reason has spoken Thanks Kev - duly noted and will lighten up.

Poverty...just don't get me rambling again...

[Bronty]

[PovertyRow]

Poverty...just don't get me rambling again...

 

Why do I think such is going to be inevitable?

[Kevin Boyd]

What I do not support is dealers using Movie Hype to fuel unsustainable prices in books and collectors basing their purchase decisions on speculation on which characters may or may not appear in an upcoming movie or how well a movie will do at the box office. What does that have to do with anything? Are you telling me that I should turn the other cheek and say that $295 for a DD #188 CGC 9.6 is OK? Let's call a spade a spade: that price is just absurd.

 

Not sure I get your whole rant - you don't support dealers who hype - I don't like that kind of hype myself, but I choose to ignore it. But how would one support or not support a buyer's decision to speculate? That's up to them to decide, not you. And yes, that price IS absurd.

 

The only factor that should count as far as movies are concerned are whether the films will spur popularity of a character that leads to long-term increased demand for that character's appearances. As far as the CGC market is concerned, did the Spidey movie really do that? Wasn't the Green Goblin already the most popular Spidey villain and weren't the people bidding up ASM #14 and #122 and what not already hard-core collectors before the movie?

 

CGC market... probably not. BUT overall... definitely. Increased awareness of Spider-Man through the movie and related tie-ins (like videogames, toys, etc.) has probably lead to increased long-term demand for Spider-Man items by creating new fans and reviving interest from casual fans.

 

And if Movie Hype really does lift all boats, why do Movie Hype proponents always point to X-Men and Spidey? What about the vast number of other existing and planned comic-related movie and TV projects? Weren't X-Men and Spidey already the industry's two hottest franchises? Did we need movies to boost their comic values? Of course not. It just gave dealers an excuse to hype the books up further.

 

There's nothing wrong with hype as a selling tactic. It's a common tactic used in advertising and sales in most if not all areas. I'm not a proponant of movie hype myself, but these short term blips of interest are not uncommon when there is a media-generated "event" such as a movie or TV show. Sellers will go by their past experience with similar events - lile the spike the Batman show gave the comics in the late sixties, and the similar spike and rampant speculation we saw in 1989 with the release of the Burton Batman film.

 

Truth is that, hype or not, increased exposure does make this insular community of buyers and sellers truly believe that the masses will suddenly flock to a specific back issue or issues. It's become a pretty standard aspect of the hobby of comic book collecting and it's carrying over to CGC auctions. It's a no-brainer that when those fabled masses of new fans the event could generate don't come, the books will cool off again to pre-hype levels.

 

Kev

[Darthdiesel]

I just realized what we had our first fight over...my calling restos "frankenstien books" and the fact that I wouldn't acknowledge the distinction between light restoration such as spinal roll removal and C&P vs. heavy resto, like CT and tear seals, staple replacement, solution wash...

 

Honestly, I would not listen to anything I had to say about restoration, as I've never had one restored book, never bought one, never known anyone to do any, can't recognize shaved books and for the most part deal only in modern books that would not be restored anyway.

[PovertyRow]

Honestly, I would not listen to anything I had to say about restoration, as I've never had one restored book, never bought one, never known anyone to do any, can't recognize shaved books and for the most part deal only in modern books that would not be restored anyway.

 

That is ironic. That very discussion is where I realized that the folks here were tough skinned and I could spout my ideas, others would spout there ideas, we could clash with thick hides and just have fun.

[Guest]

CI, JP doesn't get FLEECED on anything. It's like in "the Freshman" when Matthew Broderick says to Carmine Sabbatini's daughter something like, "The MONA LISA, here in Queens, isn't your father afraid it's going to get stolen?", and his daughter laughs and says, "Oh Clark, that's funny...NOBODY steals from my father".

Backed by an auction house, a grading company, being catered to by every major dealer in the hobby, and 60 million dollars per year in currency sales alone, the concept of JP being fleeced is equally as comical as that funny scene in that movie. JP is in FULL control of the market and every possible scenario. The screen-play has already been written, with JP doing the scripting. And why not! Takes money to make money. For something to get CLEAN, something else has to get DIRTY, but you can make everything DIRTY, without ever making ANYTHING clean. To get rich, someone else has to be made less rich, or poor!

[Joanna]

There really ARE people who love this hobby for the art and the stories.

 

I have to agree with Darth on this one, Pov. I don't understand why you are implying that a seller can't love the books. Why is there an implied superiority of the buyer having more love than a seller? Many buyers see it as a hobby (you called it a hobby in the quote above, for example), where the seller has made a career out of those books. That shows a true dedication and investment in the industry as a whole. Are the people who write and draw and edit the books also looked down upon? They, too, make money from your hobby.

 

I began as a hobbyist, buying lots of books. I bought books without any thought or inclination toward selling them. I just wanted to read them. That's why the bulk of my silver age collection is low grade. The lower the grade, the more books I could afford, the more stories I could read. I once came home from the San Diego con with two giant suitcases filled with books, and my clothes in a plastic bag. I spent 4 days walking the con, filling my backpack, walking to the hotel, dropping off my books, then doing it all over again. Read them all, too. So I really don't like the implication that I can't love the books just as much as the next person because my life circumstances are now forcing me to sell these beloved treasures.

 

I began as a hobbyist yet I am now selling books on ebay and not buying anything. No collecting (though it's killing me), lots of selling (killing me even more). As I write my auctions, I page through the books, re-read some, do a lot of smiling and then talk about the stories in every single auction I post. I have a "condition" section, but since I just cared about the stories when I bought them, that's what I sell in my auctions. I sell the stories and art.

 

I began as a hobbyist, yet I ended up writing a couple of issues. And now, in between writing auctions, I've been working on another pitch to DC Comics, which I'm sending off on Monday. Is this yet another scheme to make money off of comics, or is it my love of the characters and storytelling? Am I scamming someone by wanting to contribute to the mythos of these characters? Am I one of the unwashed because I haven't the money to spend on comics, slabbed or unslabbed? What if I make some money selling a story for a graphic novel, and can then afford to buy some books - would that make me suddenly able to love the stories and art?

 

I'm not posting this with anger or harshness, just a plea to see the other side. Sellers can love comics. Sellers do love comics. Sellers and buyers need each other in order to love the comics, just as they both need the writers, artists and publishers. We're all in a circle here, for the love the books.

 

-- Joanna

[Darthdiesel]

As I write my auctions, I page through the books, re-read some, do a lot of smiling and then talk about the stories in every single auction I post.

 

Funny you should mention this...I do the exact same thing! Probably why I list about 3 new auctions everyweek and the majority of "quickies" are relists of multiple copies. For example, I just re-read Lucas Cage's Origin in Hero for Hire 1 and when he first met Iron Fist, actually fights him, in Power Man 48...two issues later the title becomes Power Man and Iron Fist! Now with Modern books, I read them once they come out on Wednesday and store 'em . It's these older ones that I love to "rediscover"

 

Happy reading Joanna!

[PovertyRow]

I'm not posting this with anger or harshness, just a plea to see the other side. Sellers can love comics. Sellers do love comics. Sellers and buyers need each other in order to love the comics, just as they both need the writers, artists and publishers. We're all in a circle here, for the love the books.

 

Believe it or not, Joanna, I understand and agree 100% with everything in your post. I have never said that selling books is a bad thing, or that sellers do not love comics. Unfortunately, some of the things I have said have been interpreted that way and a comeback like “oh yes, you think selling is evil and only collectors are good” seems to have stuck more than what I actually said.

 

Over the years I have sold about 12 long boxes of mainly pre-code horror, silver and gold. Certainly not a huge quantity but certainly enough to qualify me as a seller as well as a collector. A dealer you get to know, and who gets to know you, is one of the best thing that can happen.

 

As far as writers and artists and editors etc, there wouldn’t even BE books and their minds have collectively contributed to some wonderful myths and legends. Some of their names are as much legend as the legends they created.

 

I still get troubled over some of the marketing aspect of comics, and my seemingly negative reactions tend to stem from that. There seems to be an inordinate amount of attention, in a small area of the commnuity, on a few tenths of a grade. But few seem to be addressing the fact that, even in a cgc case, as the years go by, those white pages, unless stored in a constant environment, are going to become off-white or cream or worse. There is, in one small aspect of comics, a frightening sense of immediacy, where the idea that “this is a 9.8 W” with no thought to how long it will remain a 9.8W. Now this is true of any book one has. A NM stored in mylar in a long box may well end up a VF or less. This has already happened with, for example, some of the Church books. But it just seems that nowadays the fact that “this is a 9.8” has more importance than anything else – again to one small aspect of comics.

 

So tell you what? I will try to be clearer in my posts. I will take pains to not leave myself open to interpretation (at least as much as I can and still write a readable post.) It is the best I can attempt.