Updated Me Page - Movie Hype Idiocy 1 1

[Joanna]

I'm happy to see that you agree with me. As for the increments, keep in mind that it takes 2 people to care about that: a seller and a buyer. Neither is more to blame than the other, IMO. And neither should be 'blamed' at all. Each person has his or her own standards, likes/dislikes, attraction, etc.

 

Personally, I'm not fond of horror comics, so the same books you value so dearly are worthless to me. Same with all the Marvel books everyone is constantly talking about here -- if I found an early ASM minty fresh book at a rummage sale, I would see it only for the money it could make me, not caring what story it told. That should make me as 'bad' as a modern seller looking for 10's right? Looking at a comic as book value alone? But if I found a beat-up Adventure Comics that I never read, I'd be all over it, whether I could sell it or not. Suddenly I'm one of the good guys again.

 

I think this is the piece of the puzzle that you're not keying in on, Pov. Everyone has their likes and dislikes, and some people sell one kind of book so that they can afford another. Some sell because they have to. Some sell because they simply enjoy dealing with comics for a living. No one is a villain here, unless there is dishonesty involved (like that Australian guy who keeps posting scams).

 

I'm not one of those increment buyers, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the people who are. They have the money to do it, the interest in the condition, and the love of the books. Let them do what they want without condemning them. They're not condemning your love of pre-code horror.

 

-- Joanna

[delekkerste]

"Are your posts really supposed to mean anything or are they just puff pieces about

how much money and brains you think you have? I usually don't respond to someone's

posts like this but I have had about enough of your lengthy soliliques on your self and

limited knowledge of comics. It is annoying."

 

Hey, sorry you feel that way, but the truth is, I get a TON of messages from eBayers,

many of whom do not post on these forums, and the response to my "Me" page has

been overwhelmingly positive. Let's face it - a lot of people have an uneasy feeling that

what I am saying is correct, but since nobody else is saying it, they have been lulled

into a false sense of complacency and security.

 

Your ad hominem attacks don't faze me and really say more about what kind of person

*you* are then what I am. I suggest you listen to the message and not the messenger...

you may think they are "puff pieces", but we'll see who's right and laughing all the way

to the bank a couple years from now and who's crying in their milk.

 

Gene

[Rickdogg]

Wow taking philosophy (logic) does help after all "AD HOMINEM" HEHEHEE

[delekkerste]

Gene, I have no problem with you or your me page. You are not doing anything to

promote the hobby as a collector by being so negative

 

Carl, this is where I disagree vehemently with you. I think speculative excess is the

threat here, not my warning about it. Comics absolutely stunk in the 1990s, and now

finally they are good again. We all know collectors who left the hobby and recently came

back - heck, I quit for a year or two in the late 1990s. Now why would we want to burn

these folks by fomenting speculative excess that will inevitably lead to a bust?

 

It's very short-sighted, like those corporate execs, VCs, I-bankers, research analysts, etc.

who essentially pumped and dumped stock in the late, lamented bull market. Sure, they

made out like bandits for awhile, but now they've killed the goose laying the golden eggs.

 

Gene

[PovertyRow]

Suddenly I'm one of the good guys again.

 

OK. I give up. I doubt I will ever be able to properly express this so I will not try anymore and will just avoid posting upon that topic. I'm sure most will be relieved!

 

 

[delekkerste]

Let me ask you, if you are so against this effect of movie hype on the industry,

would you turn down the offer for one of your books you can let go if the offer was

a high multiple of NM guide, just so you can say you are a man of principle?

 

Hey, I'm a capitalist first and a comic collector second. But I'm NOT going to

make spurrious arguments to the buyer like "this book is going to soar if Daredevil

breaks $150 million domestic at the box office".

 

I think the best advice is not to get in over your head. Bid and pay what you feel

comfortable with and even if the market crashes

 

That's what I've said all along. But I know there are people out there playing Russian

roulette with their savings, betting big on comics as an investment vehicle. And I

know that there are dealers out there spurring them on with Movie Hype voodoo and

other dubious arguments.

 

Gene

 

 

[delekkerste]

Sour grapes for everyone beating you out on your bids is seen as just that: sour

grapes. You and I bump heads often on auctions, especially USM/UXM junk, but I

bear no ill will at all, as that is the name of the game.

 

You must be kidding me. Darth - 95-98% of the auctions I bid on are just to track the

market. Sometimes I make multiple bids to keep things interesting. Almost everything

CGC that I really want, I have already accumulated. These days, I mostly just buy new

issues for my reading pleasure and am looking to fill in a couple of runs and upgrade a few

books.

 

You can believe me or not believe me, but I would swear on a stack of Bibles that whatever

I say in my posts or my Me page has absolutely nothing to do with trying to get prices lower

for my own benefit. Similarly, I didn't short the stock market on the way down, but I sure as

hell did warn everybody I could (and continue to do so) to get out because I don't want to

see my friends get wiped out by greed & speculative foolishness. What would you have me

do - just nod and wink and say, "Sure, friend - it's OK to take out a 2nd mortgage on your

house so you can buy an AF #15 CGC 9.0 because surely the sequel will take that book to

over $100K?"

 

You don't seem to keep in mind that to get these books graded is a costly expense and

selling them goes towards someone's livelihood.

 

Oh believe me, I have been aware of this for some time. I openly questioned this on my Me

page a long time ago, back when 9.0s and 9.2s were just starting to go out of fashion, that

dealers will be losing a fortune in grading fees because of the shift in market sentiment,

sitting on a ton of unsalable inventory.

 

I know it's a tough business, subject to all kinds of changing shifts in whims and tastes. I

am sympathetic to that - I do have friends in the dealer community. But you guys will

definitely have to adapt - the CGC market excess continues to correct itself and I think it

will only get more difficult from a dealer perspective going forward. I know dealer Reynold

Jay recently pulled a bunch of Modern submissions from CGC citing unfavorable market

conditions. That's the new reality, I'm afraid.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

[delekkerste]

but I am curious, just what %s of current retail do you see books crashing down to?

But again, I am curious as to how much of a cataclysm you foresee.

 

Many people on this Board seem to lack the imagination to even conceive that prices

could fall more than 10-15%, tops. Which is amazing to me, given that just about

everybody has learned first-hand in the last couple of years that even the bluest of the

blue chip stocks can go to zero within the span of a year.

 

What if the housing bubble bursts and we have a spate of personal bankruptcies and a

banking crisis? What if the Dow Jones falls below 5000? What if these problems in

Latin America cause another 1997 or 1998-style emerging markets crisis? What if a war

with Iraq goes badly - they use chemical weapons against Israel and Tel Aviv responds

with a nuclear strike? What if there is another terrorist attack in the US worse than 9/11?

Or what if none of this happens, but the economy simply continues to remain weak, people

continue to lose jobs, and there is a global recession and deflation? If you are an educated

person, can you easily dismiss any of these not-improbable scenarios?

 

If any one of these not-improbable things happens, is it likely that CGC prices will escalate?

Or fall just a little bit? Is it not conceivable that, in some of these scenarios, they could sell

for mere pennies on the dollar? I'm not saying that will necessarily happen, but it is easy for me

to envision multiple scenarios where prices fall substantially and people will wish they had

cash in the bank rather than a pile of plastic-slabbed funny books.

 

Gene

[Darthdiesel]

Now why would we want to burn these folks by fomenting speculative excess that will inevitably lead to a bust?

 

Once again, opinion. I don't believe we are burning anyone. or at least I'm not, IMO. If you feel that way, that I'm "ripping off speculator fools" to line my own pockets then I'll just have to deal with that. Your idea of a reasonable price may not agree with mine, or my buyers, but is no reason to condemn that. Maybe people just have more disposable income now. If this crash comes, won't the comic industry still survive? It did after the Valiant craze. I haven't always been there for comics, collecting year in and year out, but when I needed or wanted to go back to it...it was still there.

[Darthdiesel]

Hey, I'm a capitalist first and a comic collector second. But I'm NOT going to

make spurrious arguments to the buyer like "this book is going to soar if Daredevil

breaks $150 million domestic at the box office".

 

Absolutely perfect sense there, and if you see me using that, then slap me one. I do throw a line in that the Spideys movie's success has increased demand on the USM books, but that's true. So I guess there is a fine line as to what can be said and respected. As Kevthe mev says and I agree with is that hype is part of marketing and you as the knowledgeable buyer must be able to weed out all its influence b4 buying a product.

[Darthdiesel]

But I know there are people out there playing Russian roulette with their savings, betting big on comics as an investment vehicle. And I

know that there are dealers out there spurring them on with Movie Hype voodoo and

other dubious arguments.

 

You are just like CI here, playing comic industry guardian angel? Don't take this wrong but who appointed you? Who appointed us, sellers in general? I believe in protecting the customer from outright fraud and deception and any illegality, but come on, here's where I use the "I can't hold everyone's hand" argument...what people do with their savings is their business. Tell all the casinos and gambling houses to close down because people are throwing their lives away. See how inane and futile that seems? I do...

 

[Darthdiesel]

You must be kidding me. Darth - 95-98% of the auctions I bid on are just to track the market. Sometimes I make multiple bids to keep things interesting. Almost everything CGC that I really want, I have already accumulated. These days, I mostly just buy new issues for my reading pleasure and am looking to fill in a couple of runs and upgrade a few books.

 

sorry about the sour grapes comment. I believe you I think however you are breaking one of the "collector"'s unwritten commandments: Thou shalt not bid unless you intend on buying (not make it interesting). Otherwise you are driving the price up on another fellow collector...

[delekkerste]

I think however you are breaking one of the "collector"'s unwritten commandments:

Thou shalt not bid unless you intend on buying (not make it interesting).

 

Ah yes, but both buyers and sellers benefit from liquid, efficient markets. If people

like me weren't there to place bids and make sure prices weren't more reflective of

reality, sellers might be more reluctant to sell, which doesn't benefit anybody! And

I always pay up promptly if I should win and usually bid reasonably, so all it does is

keep the market juices flowing. I've actually stopped bidding so freely these days anyway...

ended up winning too many auctions at low/opening bid levels as prices for non-keys

have PLUNGED!!

 

Gene

 

[comicinvestor-migration]

No joke, and you have to be careful on what you bid on these days. It's a really freaky market right now, and no price is seemingly too low for some books.

 

I'm still thinking about that Werewolfby Night 32 CGC 8.5 I just won.... A Cream-Paged 8.5 went for $65 a week or so ago, and noting that the auction had a reserve and it's OW, I tossed up a $54 bid just to test the waters. Bingo, I'm bidding against myself (no other participants...) and I hit the Reserve of $53.

 

I pay my bills, and it is a very nice price for a CGC VF+ Bronze Key, but in some ways it's $53 less I have to spend on the 9.2-9.4 copy I'll eventually end up buying.

[delekkerste]

You are just like CI here, playing comic industry guardian angel? Don't take this

wrong but who appointed you?

 

I don't know...who watches The Watchmen?

 

I think that people can benefit from my insights, whether or not they ultimately agree

with what I say. I see the CGC market like a flaming train wreck hurtling toward us

at breakneck speed...if I can yell "LOOK OUT!" and help a few people sidestep this

impending disaster, that makes me feel good. If I can engage in some intelligent

debate with people like you, I enjoy that too. If I achieve some notoriety as to inspire

flaming ad hominem attacks from others, that's fine as well.

 

Gene

 

 

 

[Darthdiesel]

"Quis videt custodes?" is right. I don't chastise you for that. You may be looking out for your friends which is cool, but others may need to learn for themselves what the hype is all about and may actually get into it. I think that too strong of a warning may scare them off completely from even checking out the CGC phenomenon.

 

I'm just wondering if you flip your unwanted books? If not, why not? You have the resources, knowledge, and potential marketbase of great sellers like ReynoldJay and Bronzebruce to back you up. Can't you consign through them? If you know that these books are going down in value, why are you still holding on to them...release while you still can get something for them, I thought this was the whole point of your me page "rant".

 

I would be truly impressed if all the people (not just you Gene, maybe CI too) that claim CGC has "had it" out there on eBay, with the rare exception of hi-grade gold, silver and bronze, put your goods where they are and get out of the market. Liquidate already...I'm waiting for all your stock! I know, Gene, you have some nice books that you've outbid me on. Dump 'em. The prices are all going down the tubes anyway...

[comicinvestor-migration]

Darth, the reason I don't swamp EBay with my extra is simply because it's too much work for not enough return. I could take some after-hours consulting and make far more per hour than selling funny books.

 

Plus, it's nice to see those boxes stack up to the ceiling, and all you Byrne X-Men investors better hope I never do release the hoardes. :>

[delekkerste]

Liquidate already...I'm waiting for all your stock! I know, Gene, you have some

nice books that you've outbid me on. Dump 'em. The prices are all going down

the tubes anyway...

 

If it were as simple as hitting a button on my computer, I would certainly do it!

But, in practice, it would be a royal pain and a colossal time-sink to scan, list,

pack, ship, etc. each book and then buy them back in the future. I'm content

to just hold onto most of what I have and enjoy it.

 

I'm just not cut out for the mail-order comic business!

 

Gene

[PovertyRow]

Let them do what they want without condemning them. They're not condemning your love of pre-code horror.

 

I am gonna try this one more time, even though I said I would just stop posting on this. A few emails have encouraged me.

 

First off, I have been trashed because I believe that non-invasive restoration (meaning a clean/press or a spine roll removal - as I made VERY clear that such non-invasive (meaning not adding anything to the book)) is different from an invasive restoration (tear seals, leaf form, methyl-cellulose impregnation, inpainting, staple replacement etc). Nothing said by you. Apparantly it is ok to trash folk who believe this. What has happened to the "let them do what they want" concept?

 

Then Darth says he has bid on a DVD auction of mine - a DVD - not even a comic - and he will "haggle" over the price - then says I should be "scared to death" of him? And nothing from you. (and I will say it made my shoulders and stomach torgue to block Darth - I have never done anything remotely like that before but for some reason Darth felt that a dvd auction was fair game because of my opinions. Jesus - that because of my opinions ( or Darth's perceptions of my opinions) someone could just say "I will bid and then haggle."? And you find that acceptable? (I truly wish I could retract that but ebay does not allow it. Best I could do was remove Darth form my banned list.)

 

Next - I have never - EVER - said that anyone selling comics is bad - evil - whatever. Show me ONE POST - just one post - where I said that. If you can I will gladly retract that. But show me.

 

And finally - my clearly stated opinion. If folks care to rebut this I would be very happen to listen.When I read message upon message about the difference of a 9.6 vs a 9.8, or "is this really a 9.8" or "why is this dillweed saying this is a 9.4" - messages whose quantities on this board are literally orders of magnitude above other messages - and seem to get the majority reply - then I ask "why are people focussing so much on that 2/10 grade?"

 

OK - I am done. I appreciate your reply if you are so inclined to give it. And am especially interested in why you would just assume I hate peple who sell and suddenly only someone who buys is a "good guy again". I would really like to know from where you gleaned that.

 

Thanks.

 

[Joanna]

Pov,

 

I'm sorry you felt undefended in other threads. I'll readily admit that I don't read everything on here. Sometimes, I read the first few posts, then leave it alone. For one thing, it's so Marvel-centered and I don't read Marvel, that I don't know what anyone is talking about. Second, everyone seems to have so much money, and I have so little, that it almost hurts to read about spending thousands on a comic book when I'm scraping together my rent.

 

That said, I did read some of the restoration thread, but I know zippo about restoration. Just plain ignorant. In fact, I was about to post a book today and stopped because I saw something on it that I couldn't identify and, fearing it was restoration, I decided not to list it. Do I know or even suspect it's restoration? I'm totally clueless. I just don't trust anything I can't readily identify, even though this issue of Brave and Bold looked nearly perfect and would probably make me some money. So how am I to defend your position if I barely understand what you're talking about? Cleaning and pressing, tear seals -- I truly WISH I knew what they looked like. Then I could say "Oh, this should not be in the same category". But I'm fuzzy on that 'adding to the book' vs. 'doing to the book' stuff because just owning a book gets stuff done to it, yet that's considered normal wear. Spine rolls don't just happen. Someone had to store it improperly. So removing a spine roll -- is that done by just storing it better? Why is the bad stuff okay and the good stuff not? You see? Pure ignorance!

 

I didn't reread to find evil or words like it. I'm sure you didn't say it. I suppose it was in the implication. There is a certain self-riteous fervor in telling sellers how and what to sell, what to slab, how to market and so on. It happens so often here. In your posts (the ones I responded to) I saw a distinction being made between sellers and collectors where only latter were 'showing the love' so to speak. That's what I reacted to. The reason is simple, and it's personal: I love my comics, I just truly, truly do. And it hurts to sell them. I guess I didn't like being told that I no longer loved them, just because I had to say good-bye to them. See? Just a personal button that was pushed. I doubt you meant that, or intended for your posts to be read that way, but that's how me (and my issues) saw it. I'm sorry, because obviously I've now hit your buttons, and I didn't mean to.

 

Finally, a word about all those fractions. When i first got here, I, too, couldn't understand the emphasis on .6 or .8 or .4. Then one day it dawned on me in a "duh" kinda way (I hate it when I'm slow). This is the CGC forum. Of COURSE that's where the emphaiss will be. On grading! On CGC grading! On slabbed books! On increments and fractions and the census and all that other stuff.. Just like a forum based on pre-code horror wouldn't constantly be talking about Hulk 181, or bronze age grading, or silver age DC or any of that stuff. They'd be talking about pre-code horror!

 

So you read the threads you care about, skip the digit-related ones and have fun. Oh, and teach me to spot restoration! What does a tear seal look like? feel like? Is there an obvious way to tell? What about cleaning? Spine unrolling? I have so much to learn.

 

-- Joanna