OT: Holy Terrible Super Bowl Officiating!

[october]

 

Exactly

 

I saw no giant "conspiracy" going on here. Saehawks fans can sign their pettition, but it's not going to change the outcome or garner a rematch. Just suck it up and look forward to next year. That's what I've had to do for my Chiefs.

 

Me too with the Bears. Talk about a choke and poor coaching. You are up against one of, if not THE best reciever in the NFL and you don't put your pro-bowl corner on him or double team him? WTF?

[joe_collector]

Why do all you Steeler fanboys totally ignore the "phantom hold" that Madden hammered the refs on? That was a true game-breaker.

 

Or the bizarre tackle that was penalized as an illegal block.

 

Or the "phantom fumble" that gave the ball back to the Steelers, and forced Seattle to lose a challenge to reverse that stupidity?

 

I wonder...

[joe_collector]

[That's what I've had to do for my Chiefs.

 

I bet you think if you keep saying it, someone, somewhere will believe you, right Steeler-boy?

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Are you saying it would have been great officiating for the refs to have allowed the push-off for a TD in a game of this magnitude?

 

At best, it was a questionable call. Who else thinks so? Steve Young, Michael Irvin, Ron Jaworski, and a number of other NFL Analysts who have said as much.

 

Given a TD to guy who didn't get both feet down on a catch?

 

That's not even my main contention. To me, his left foot was down and his right hit the pylon before contacting the out of bounds line. Since it was within the two minute warning, Seattle can't challenge the ruling, and if its close, in a game of this magnitude, the officials upstairs MUST review.

 

If it isn't a touchdown, fine, move on. But don't you think spending 30 seconds reviewing the play is a prudent thing to do, NO MATTER what you think you saw personally?

 

Gary Horton, a 30-year NFL analyst & scout made this point during the ESPN.com chat...it should have been reviewed. The officials screwed up, plain and simple.

 

Reversed a TD on the goal line where in replay it could be seen that the ball met the white line in the air?

 

Then why was the line judge in best position to make the call, running in to call it down short of the goal line, and then halfway to the pile, put his hands up to indicate the touchdown?

 

And as far as whether he made it or not, several NFL analysts are saying it wasn't clear he made it in. Refer to my Michael Wilbon quote above...clearly, he thought it was a bad call too.

 

Listen, I know I sound like a bitter Seahawks fan tonight. I was happy that this team made it to the Superbowl, and after suffering through more 3-13 and 6-10 seasons then I care to count, I have learned to accept defeat and move on. I can admit our offense didn't play well, and our defense gave up big plays when it could least afford to.

 

But I can't stomach losing when the officating was so grossly one-sided tonight. You don't agree? Fine. But remember, next time it might be YOUR team getting all the bogus calls in the biggest game of the year, having to overcome the "feel good" and favored team that seems to get all the lucky breaks.

 

I don't want perfection, I just want something remotely approaching fair and even officiating. I want the rules as they are written to be applied (like close calls within 2 minutes of the half to be reviewed) and not be rewritten by the refs as they go (like the 15-yd bogus penalty on Hass).

 

I didn't get any of that tonight. And by looking at the petitions and message boards, it looks like thousands, likely millions, of people feel the same way.

[CKB]

Look, it's a tough loss for the Hawks to swallow because they were on the cusp of scoring so many times and appeared to move the ball, but saying the officiating decided the game is ridiculous. The refs cannot let clear rule violations go.

 

Pass interference in the end zone, 1Q: I just watched it 6 times and the defensive player did not initiate any non-incidental contact at all. The contact by the offensive player was deliberate to gain an advantage. It will get called every time. Would he have caught the ball anyway had he not pushed off? Probably. Was it a penalty anyway? Yes. Steve Young is taking the position of a QB who wants all that stuff to count so he can throw more TD passes. Irvin the same, a receiver. The rules are tighter now than when they played.

 

The Hasselbeck fumble that was overturned was simply the refs missing that the QB had been contacted before he went down. The contact did not cause him to fall, but it does not matter - but is probably why it was missed. If he had went down without being touched, the ball is still live (no matter what casues the fumble, including the ground) until he is contacted. There is only a special rule for QBs if they slide feet first, where they are down by rule when and where they start their slide. Corrected by the replay team, exactly why they are there.

 

The "phantom hold" on the Hawk TD throw was a flesh and blood full-blown hold. The replay that Madden was looking at when he made the TV comments made it hard to see. I just rewound back to the play itself, and it is clear that the Tackle had the guy in a half nelson, with his arm completly hooked around the defender's - from behind, restraining the rusher!. This is holding.

 

The long Seattle non-TD pass at the front pylon is not even worth discussing. The "break the plane" rule only has meaning if you have established possession or are ruled pushed out of bounds. So, if there is no push, the way to establish posession on a reception is to get both feet down in bounds. At that point you can assess whether or not the ball has broken the plane (and the plane actually extends out of bounds). Since it was clear that one foot was out of bounds, there was no reason for review. His foot did hit the pylon - before it hit the ground establishing the catch. Foot came down out of bounds, no catch, no TD.

 

The call on the low block on the interception return is more a matter of a bad rule than a bad call. This year there were new rules put into place that only take effect on a change of posession like an interception return. In order to protect the players, the rule is that you cannot ATTEMPT TO make a block below the waist on any player, from any angle (front, back or side), with the ball carrier excepted. Well what do you do when the ball carrier is running side by side with a non-carrier? This is what happened to the Hawks defender (was it the QB on the play?). His tackle of the ball carrier was also an attempted and failed block of a player running next to him. There is no doubt this is a bad rule with good intentions. It needs to be reworked or removed. The Pats got hit with this at a much more critical point in a recent game.

 

The Big Ben TD at the goal line was close, but was upheld on review. My Tivo caught a frame or two in one of the replays that shows a part of the ball and the hand holding it over the front of the line before Ben hit the ground (in the air, so to speak) as or just after he was contacted. Since Ben was coming down torso first, he was not down when contacted since no part of him was on the ground yet. Was there ANY WAY IN HELL that the official could have seen this on the field? No, of course not. I would much rather have seen this marked at the 1" line and called a TD by review, which it would have been.

 

I think you guys have problems with the rules. If you want to see a badly called game, watch the Pittsburg / Indy matchup. This game was actually good in comparision.

 

Championship teams make their own breaks. When they get a bad or unfortunate or unlucky call, they make outstanding plays to counteract. Seattle did none of that. Drops. Missed opportunities. Missed FGs. Penalties. They did not deserve to win, and the Refs were the least of their problems.

 

Unfortuately, as is want to happen in such high pressure games, the Steelers could not cleanly take the advantage they were given and win easily, instead making it a well-matched contest by having problems of their own. You play this game on week 17 in the regular season, have the Hawks play like that, and you have a 4-5 touchdown difference between these two teams.

[october]

Why do all you Steeler fanboys totally ignore the "phantom hold" that Madden hammered the refs on? That was a true game-breaker.

 

Or the bizarre tackle that was penalized as an illegal block.

 

Or the "phantom fumble" that gave the ball back to the Steelers, and forced Seattle to lose a challenge to reverse that stupidity?

 

I wonder...

 

I already explained that I am not a Steelers fanboy. I don't even like the team.

 

What do you honestly think? You think there was some conspiracy? The officials have an insanely tough job, and when calls are close someone is going to be upset. It doesn't matter which way they go. Don't talk about the "phantom fumble" like it was some easy call. He was GRAZED and then fell down. Unless you saw the replay you had no idea he was touched. The official had a bad angle and the announcers didn't even pick up on it until the re-ran the play. Yeah, total conspiracy. So what does that leave? Two poorly called penalties? You can find two of those in any game from any season.

[joe_collector]

Exactly. Tough calls create unhappy fans. If they had gone the other way would Steelers fans be saying "yep, that was the right call"? Please. The officials can't win when the calls are as close as those. No conspiracy needed.

 

Of course, the fact that ALL of the game-breaking *tough calls* went against the Seahawks would never enter into it, right?

 

I can remember watching the Russians cheat their way to an Olympic Gold (hey, I'm married) and saying "they're cheating" and being ridiculed by a certain "personality type" that does not want to see the dirty underbelly of competitive sports.

 

Even after the breadth of the conspiracy was unveiled there were still people saying everyone should "suck it up" and that "it won't change the results". Some people just want to live their lives totally oblivious to anything sordid or remotely negative.

 

But thank God the Olympics did issue the real winners Gold medals. Seattle just gets it up the hass.

[Darthdiesel]

Holmgren might have done more good tonight in Africa with his wife and daughter

[Scheradon]

Why do all you Steeler fanboys totally ignore the "phantom hold" that Madden hammered the refs on? That was a true game-breaker.

 

Or the bizarre tackle that was penalized as an illegal block.

 

Or the "phantom fumble" that gave the ball back to the Steelers, and forced Seattle to lose a challenge to reverse that stupidity?

 

I wonder...

 

I specifically have mentioned the low block play and the fumble (that was reversed) and stated that I thought they were bad calls. How can you say that those weren't mentioned?

 

I haven't said anything on the holding play because I wasn't sure if I had the right one in mind. If it's the one where the lineman hooked his arm around the defender, clutched his shirt and held him because he got so poorly beat on the play, then I did see that one and it was no phantom holding play, regardless of what John Madden thinks. If it was another holding play, then I didn't see it, so I couldn't tell you if it was bad or not.

 

How about giving the Steelers some credit. How about Hines Ward making some great catches and not dropping a bunch of balls like the Seahawks recievers. Maybe the "conspiracy" theorists should look in house first before going after the refs. How about the crucial poorly thrown INT that led to the low block penalty in the first place?

[joe_collector]

What do you honestly think? You think there was some conspiracy?

 

Nope, but I do think a few of the officials have a definite Steeler-slant, and when a *tough call* comes up, their bias comes out.

 

This is commonplace in pro sports (homer refs) but it's usually not this blatant in a huge game like the Super Bowl.

[october]

But remember, next time it might be YOUR team getting all the bogus calls in the biggest game of the year, having to overcome the "feel good" and favored team that seems to get all the lucky breaks.

 

This is the kind of thing I can't stomach, when anger for the officials spills over onto the winning team and generates contempt for their accomplishments. The Steelers had an unbelievable playoff run. They beat the top three seeds to get where they were today. It wasn't "lucky breaks", it was great football. They proved to everyone that they were the best, questionable calls or not.

[joe_collector]

then I did see that one and it was no phantom holding play, regardless of what John Madden thinks.

 

Hmmm, whose commentary should I trust - a longtime NFL coach and broadcaster with access to high-res slo-mo images, or a some online hooligan watching it on his 15-inch TV?

[Scheradon]

[That's what I've had to do for my Chiefs.

 

I bet you think if you keep saying it, someone, somewhere will believe you, right Steeler-boy?

 

If you'd ever seen me watch a game you'd know the difference in me during a Chiefs game and this one. I can't even sit still during a Chiefs game. This one...totaly relaxed in my recliner. I was lat a Steelers fan around 1980 or so along with Dallas.

[CKB]

then I did see that one and it was no phantom holding play, regardless of what John Madden thinks.

 

Hmmm, whose commentary should I trust - a longtime NFL coach and broadcaster with access to high-res slo-mo images, or a some online hooligan watching it on his 15-inch TV?

 

He made those comments offhand, while looking at a specfic replay angle. I only had to watch another angle once to see it was a good call.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

The "phantom hold" on the Hawk TD throw was a flesh and blood full-blown hold. The replay that Madden was looking at then he made the TV comments made it hard to see. I just rewound back to the play itself, and it is clear that the Tackle had the guy in a half nelson, with his arm completly hooked around the defender's - from behind, restraining the rusher!. This is holding.

 

No different then what Bryce Fischer had to deal with on at least three seperate occasions. It gets called 20% of the time. It wasn't your classic "take-down" hold, it was marginal at best, but it happened on a play that took the Seahawks to the 20yd line. Sean Salisbury said the Seahawks were "jobbed" on that play...have to agree, and he picked the Steelers all the way.

[october]

Exactly. Tough calls create unhappy fans. If they had gone the other way would Steelers fans be saying "yep, that was the right call"? Please. The officials can't win when the calls are as close as those. No conspiracy needed.

 

Of course, the fact that ALL of the game-breaking *tough calls* went against the Seahawks would never enter into it, right?

 

I can remember watching the Russians cheat their way to an Olympic Gold (hey, I'm married) and saying "they're cheating" and being ridiculed by a certain "personality type" that does not want to see the dirty underbelly of competitive sports.

 

Even after the breadth of the conspiracy was unveiled there were still people saying everyone should "suck it up" and that "it won't change the results". Some people just want to live their lives totally oblivious to anything sordid or remotely negative.

 

But thank God the Olympics did issue the real winners Gold medals. Seattle just gets it up the hass.

 

There is also a certain personality type that sees a conspiracy in every set of coincidences, and collusion whenever something goes someone's way. So the Russians cheated in the Olympics. Ok. What does that have to do with a professional football game played decades later? Yes, officials sometimes take bribes and players sometimes take falls. Should I think the officials were biased because Shoeless Joe Jackson took a bribe and threw the World Series 80 years ago? People see what they want to see. I saw some tough calls that could have gone either way. It shouldn't detract from the Steelers' victory. They are an amazing team and they had an amazing year.

[Aces]

Wow, I am a fan of neither team, but it's pretty obvious someone wants the Steelers to win. Terrible call after terrible call against the Seahawks - it's becoming embarassing to watch this game.

 

Sorry, I had to vent!

 

I bet Heritage had big money on Pittsburgh.

[FlamingCarrot]

JC, you never told us how much you lost on the Super Bowl. Stop ducking the question!

[joe_collector]

So the Russians cheated in the Olympics. Ok. What does that have to do with a professional football game played decades later?

 

Decades? Do you even know what I'm talking about?

 

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20020801/olympic_arrest_020731/20020801/

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Sorry guys...but it looks like the national media is disagreeing with you.

 

In addition to Wilbon, Jason Whitlock of the Kansas City Star (and ESPN contributor) is also seeing things pretty clearly.

 

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