QP-how it should or should not affect the Bronze CGC Grade

[joe_collector]

A card MUST have a centering of 55/45 or better to get a high-grade with most companies[

 

what "most" companies. SGC, PSA. infact 85% PSA.

 

I think you're confused between a high-grade slab and one that's QUALIFIED.

 

To get back on subject, here's my point again in excruciating detail, so that virtually anyone can understand:

 

The major sports card graders DO take centering and QP into consideration when administering higher-grades. You cannot achieve the ultra high-grade NON-QUALIFIED slab if the centering is over 55/45 or 60/40 (depending on company).

 

Here is an exerpt from the grading requirement for the PSA 10 grade, which would be similar to a CGC 9.6:

 

"A PSA Gem Mint 10 card must be free of staining of any kind, but an allowance may be made for a slight printing imperfection, if it doesn't impair the overall appeal of the card. The image must be centered on the card within a tolerance not to exceed approximately 55/45 to 60/40 percent on the front"

 

PSA 9:

 

"A PSA Mint 9 is a superb condition card that exhibits only one of the following minor flaws: a very slight wax stain on reverse, a minor printing imperfection or slightly off-white borders. Centering must be approximately 60/40 to 65/35 or better on the front"

 

SGC, PSA, Beckett, etc. all REQUIRE tight centering on their regular, high-grade slabs.

 

If a card exhibits the preservation of a higher-grade, but looks like [embarrassing lack of self control] due to off-centering, mis-cuts, staining or other visible production or packaging damage, then a QUALIFIED grade can be given.

 

For example, a PSA 9 with bad gum staining might be given a PSA 9 (ST) Qualified grade, which as anyone knows, is NOT the same as a PSA 9 straight grade. Same with off-center, mis-cut, out-of focus, printing defects, and the rest - these are Qualified grades.

 

Now CGC, Qualified Grade or not, currently does not have any REQUIREMENT for cover centering, lack of printing defects, color or image problems, etc. which is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than sportscard grading companies, which require tight QP for the UNQUALIFIED high grades.

 

Sportscard companies have, in writing, stated they require a certain level of QP for an unqualified high-grade slab, while CGC allows virtually any production damage or flaws into their high-grade stock.

 

That's the entire point of what I've been saying, and I think it's time to change that and for CGC to adopt the more stringent QP requirements of the sportscard graders.

[joe_collector]

anyways your talking in circles, this statment makes no sence.

 

Yeah, and you're making plenty of "sence".

 

Have you ever heard of comparing APPLES and ORANGES? It comes down to the stupidity of comparing two disparate items like this, that really have little in common.

 

Apple = a low QP CGC 9.8 comic that sells for $10K

 

Orange = a high QP CGC 9.4 comic that sells for $400.

 

In this case you're somehow trying to prove a point by saying "I'd rather have $10,000 than $400." - Pretty stupid eh? I mean, who would be dumb enough to want $400 rather than a cool $10K? What kind of comparison is that?

 

APPLES and ORANGES.

[jduran1]

No one buys a cgc 9.8 Bronze without seeing it. Anyway the QP is taking into consideration by the market it the buy price. Thats way there is so much variance in the final price on high grade CGC issues. If a HOuse of Secrets 92 in 9.8 turned up I don't think anybody is going to care about the QP or think it is a defect.

 

Also dealers make a big issue about QP when buying not when they are selling.

[Monstro]

anyways your talking in circles, this statment makes no sence.

 

Yeah, and you're making plenty of "sence".

 

Have you ever heard of comparing APPLES and ORANGES? It comes down to the stupidity of comparing two disparate items like this, that really have little in common.

 

Apple = a low QP CGC 9.8 comic that sells for $10K

 

Orange = a high QP CGC 9.4 comic that sells for $400.

 

In this case you're somehow trying to prove a point by saying "I'd rather have $10,000 than $400." - Pretty stupid eh? I mean, who would be dumb enough to want $400 rather than a cool $10K? What kind of comparison is that?

 

APPLES and ORANGES.

 

what i am saying is that in the card market there are people who pay more

for a centered rounded card the a sharp centered one. why? because the f-ing

thing says (oc) so it has a f-ing stigma attached to the f-ing thing.

so if you put that qualifying cr_p on the CGC label the same sh_t is

gonna happen. someone like yourself will pay more cash for a sh_ty looking

centered books cause of the (oc) or whatever b.s. you want to though on there.

and i'll be here waiting to pick up the nicer ones for a better price.

thanks for being a slave to the man!!!!!

 

 

and let me just say I started this conversation in a polite manner.

[joe_collector]

Anyway the QP is taking into consideration by the market it the buy price. Thats way there is so much variance in the final price on high grade CGC issues.

 

Thank you for clearly illustrating my point. The market already takes QP into consideration, and without an adequate way of tracking it, GPA and the other pricing engines are pretty much useless.

[joe_collector]

what i am saying is that in the card market there are people who pay more

for a centered rounded card the a sharp centered one. why? because the f-ing

thing says (oc) so it has a f-ing stigma attached to the f-ing thing.

 

Ah, I wondered when Einstein here would trot out the STIGMA term.

 

How long have you been involved in sportscards, 2 minutes? I can produce old pre-slab grading guides that have card centering requirements, but according to you, that is impossible.

 

Because it's the STIGMA of a OC or ST that causes the lower price, right? Before the card grading companies formed, wildly off-center, mis-cut and stained cards sold for big bucks, 100% equivalent with the pristine, perfectly centered, razor-cut cards, right?

 

Right?

[sterlingcomics]

CGC doesn't factor in QP, but that doesn't mind I don't. I'll take a 9.4 with good QP over a 9.6 with bad QP.

[Monstro]

what i am saying is that in the card market there are people who pay more

for a centered rounded card the a sharp centered one. why? because the f-ing

thing says (oc) so it has a f-ing stigma attached to the f-ing thing.

 

Ah, I wondered when Einstein here would trot out the STIGMA term.

 

How long have you been involved in sportscards, 2 minutes? I can produce old pre-slab grading guides that have card centering requirements, but according to you, that is impossible.

 

Because it's the STIGMA of a OC or ST that causes the lower price, right? Before the card grading companies formed, wildly off-center, mis-cut and stained cards sold for big bucks, 100% equivalent with the pristine, perfectly centered, razor-cut cards, right?

 

Right?

 

is it a stigma or is it not?

i mean who do we work for here?

[october]

what i am saying is that in the card market there are people who pay more

for a centered rounded card the a sharp centered one. why? because the f-ing

thing says (oc) so it has a f-ing stigma attached to the f-ing thing.

 

Ah, I wondered when Einstein here would trot out the STIGMA term.

 

How long have you been involved in sportscards, 2 minutes? I can produce old pre-slab grading guides that have card centering requirements, but according to you, that is impossible.

 

Because it's the STIGMA of a OC or ST that causes the lower price, right? Before the card grading companies formed, wildly off-center, mis-cut and stained cards sold for big bucks, 100% equivalent with the pristine, perfectly centered, razor-cut cards, right?

 

Right?

 

is it a stigma or is it not?

i mean who do we work for here?

 

The fact that a card or comic resting in a regular label would tank in value if that SAME card or book was reholdered in a qualified grade says a lot about the interests of high grade slab "collectors".

[joe_collector]

i mean who do we work for here?

 

I'm beginning to think you work for CGC, or else you're some dealer with pile of freaky-low QP books you want to sell off.

 

With any collectible, long before grading companies were even a dot on the map, I gravitated towards high-QP copies, whether it was comics, cards or magazines. I actually take out my comics and look at them, and staring at some freakshow book with a huge white border and printers creases would give me a headache.

 

I see stuff like that in CGC 9.8 and 9.6 slabs, and it really makes me laugh at the scam being pulled on the speculators.

[Monstro]

 

The fact that a card or comic resting in a regular label would tank in value if that SAME card or book was reholdered in a qualified grade says a lot about the interests of high grade slab "collectors".

 

[joe_collector]

 

The fact that a card or comic resting in a regular label would tank in value if that SAME card or book was reholdered in a qualified grade says a lot about the interests of high grade slab "collectors".

 

 

What are you dancing for, he just called you a insufficiently_thoughtful_person speculator.

[Monstro]

I actually take out my comics and look at them, and staring at some freakshow book with a huge white border and printers creases would give me a headache.

 

I see stuff like that in CGC 9.8 and 9.6 slabs, and it really makes me laugh at the scam being pulled on the speculators.

 

 

i guess it's a matter of opinion....

and i would say my collection runs about 8.5 to 9.4

thank you very much, and i love that way centered

or not so perfectly centered. furthermore none of

them are freakshows!

[Rip]

You can also have them remove the qualifier but it lowers the grade by 2.

Hence a 9 (OC) can also be a 7 unqualified if you want.

[Monstro]

 

The fact that a card or comic resting in a regular label would tank in value if that SAME card or book was reholdered in a qualified grade says a lot about the interests of high grade slab "collectors".

 

 

What are you dancing for, he just called you a insufficiently_thoughtful_person speculator.

 

i am saying that that someone that would pay less for the same book because of

what it says on the label is a insufficiently_thoughtful_person.

[joe_collector]

You can also have them remove the qualifier but it lowers the grade by 2. Hence a 9 (OC) can also be a 7 unqualified if you want.

 

Yep, and that's been the point "elemental" here has been ducking. Sportscard graders DO take QP into consideration, while CGC does not. End of story.

 

Personally, I think selling freak-show QP books (ask greggy to show you his nutsack creases) in CGC 9.6 and up, is a pure, unadulterated scam.

[joe_collector]

 

The fact that a card or comic resting in a regular label would tank in value if that SAME card or book was reholdered in a qualified grade says a lot about the interests of high grade slab "collectors".

 

 

What are you dancing for, he just called you a insufficiently_thoughtful_person speculator.

 

i am saying that that someone that would pay less for the same book because of what it says on the label is a insufficiently_thoughtful_person.

 

And you told us that you LOVE buying these low-QP copies for below-market prices.

 

And I quote:

 

someone like yourself will pay more cash for a sh_ty looking centered books cause of the (oc) or whatever b.s. you want to though on there. and i'll be here waiting to pick up the nicer ones for a better price.

[Monstro]

 

The fact that a card or comic resting in a regular label would tank in value if that SAME card or book was reholdered in a qualified grade says a lot about the interests of high grade slab "collectors".

 

 

What are you dancing for, he just called you a insufficiently_thoughtful_person speculator.

 

i am saying that that someone that would pay less for the same book because of what it says on the label is a insufficiently_thoughtful_person.

 

And you told us that you LOVE buying these low-QP books for below-market prices.

 

what it boils down to is that because of a trend in the market such as a

(oc) label or a purple label people will atomatically perchuse around these

items without really looking at them.

therefor i am against more cr_p on the labels. i mean sh_t, can a buyer

use his own sence at all or does CGC need to wipe your as_ too.

[Monstro]

thats what i thought!!!

 

but really, you guy's saw that. he started arguing with me.

[gpanalysis]

Come on, let't not let this become silly as usual - make friends and let's get back on topic.

 

Joe Collector, and others, what percentage of CGCed books would you say have terrible PQ and what percentage of those are in high grade, say 9.4 and above?

 

George