New Company - 3PG - Third Party Grading???

[BronzeBruce13]

No... but it can't be too much longer you'd think. I've "heard" that the word "Global" will possibly be in their name (GGC?)... or will be their name? I get the feeling they will be more organized and there will be some money behind them, certainly more than the 2 companies we've seen thus far. I hear they will possibly grade a wider variety of items. Since the info I heard can't be proven, I wont go further. I have heard a few names, but those rumored to be involved have varied depending on the source of information, so I'm not comfortable throwing any out at this point.

[doyle033]

I hear they will possibly grade a wider variety of items.

is there even the remotest rumor or possibility that they will grade and encapsulate treasury editions? Man i love those things but finding them and keeping them in high grade is no fun. would rule if they had a holder for those things.

[awe4one]

is there even the remotest rumor or possibility that they will grade and encapsulate treasury editions? Man i love those things but finding them and keeping them in high grade is no fun. would rule if they had a holder for those things.

 

As if they aren't hard enough to store now, encapsulated treasuries would add even more storage nightmares!

 

Would make it easier to keep them from damage though.

 

 

Jim

[blowout]

I get the feeling they will be more organized and there will be some money behind them, certainly more than the 2 companies we've seen thus far.

 

I don't know what sort of information you know or the reliablitiy of it, but has knowing what you know (or don't know) had any effect on the way you have been buying/selling CGC books?

[murph0]

They do have a larger sample of a book they've graded on their website. I think the key advantage to this service is that on the back of the label there is...REASONS FOR THE GRADE!!! Amazing..someone was actually smart enough to give this a shot so there's no more guessing as to why something got a certain grade

 

Brian

[BronzeBruce13]

I get the feeling they will be more organized and there will be some money behind them, certainly more than the 2 companies we've seen thus far.

 

I don't know what sort of information you know or the reliability of it, but has knowing what you know (or don't know) had any effect on the way you have been buying/selling CGC books?

 

Not really, I was concerned when the first one (CGG) showed up as I thought the timing was poor for the overall market. I figured additional companies would confuse buyers and cause more harm than good... I probably over-reacted. I think it would have been better if the competition arrived during the "growth phase" perhaps, instead of the correction/downturn we are experiencing, but it is what it is. Whatever happens, will happen regardless of my being concerned about it. I would have to see (or feel it in my gut) something specific that concerned me to alter my buying and selling habits very much.

 

I still feel strongly that CGC will remain at the top of the grading companies anyway.

[Arty]

Here's links to full size pictures (on 3pgrading website they are downscaled with html?)

 

http://www.3pgrading.com/samp01.jpg

 

http://www.3pgrading.com/samp02.jpg

 

Positive thing is that they mention defects in their label (backside)

and they use mylar (=melinex) in their slabs.

 

 

 

[joe_collector]

Regardless of the company's merits, I LOVE the Report Card aspect, where the main flaws are detailed, along with region.

[fazman]

I hear they will possibly grade a wider variety of items.

is there even the remotest rumor or possibility that they will grade and encapsulate treasury editions? Man i love those things but finding them and keeping them in high grade is no fun. would rule if they had a holder for those things.

[fazman]

I hear they will possibly grade a wider variety of items.

is there even the remotest rumor or possibility that they will grade and encapsulate treasury editions? Man i love those things but finding them and keeping them in high grade is no fun. would rule if they had a holder for those things.

 

Great idea !! But the price would probably be a way too much considering the low valve of most of these.

[14 of spades]

i certainly like their label much more than CGGs. i think it even compares favourably to CGCs. and yes - the extra notes on condition are GOOD!

 

notice on the X Men sample - their NM+ is a 98 (and not a 96)

 

have to admit i'm a bit more skeptical about a company that ONLY does moderns - it's almost as though they don't want to screw up or possibly damage people's SA and GA books.

 

i think the first company that comes up with a holder that is superior to CGC's (in terms of being less fragile) will have a big following.

 

on the whole, i think these guys are much more together/on-the-ball than CGG. i don't see CGG getting any market penetration at all.

[BronzeBruce13]

Regardless of the company's merits, I LOVE the Report Card aspect, where the main flaws are detailed, along with region.

 

I like that feature too... its like getting the equivalent of the CGC "graders notes" right on the label. Currently you have to call CGC for that info. I proposed long ago that the graders notes (and the 3 grades) be included in the Collector's Society serial search... seems like a no brainer. Maybe that will happen in the future.

 

Other Positives are, unlike CGG so far. 3PG details the archival materials they are using with some background explanation. That is a huge issue for anyone wanting to use a service for a valuable book. The label is way better than CGG's as well.

 

I'm not so sure about the grading scale. It might be tough to maintain a respected level of accuracy and consistency when allowing all the micro in-between grades. Its already a highly debated/contested issue even with the current grading scale. Also "NM/M" appears to have been phased out?

(Also, on another note, GPA is going to have to make some adjustments to record 3PG sales data.. not a plug... relevant)

 

It appears that there will be only one grader? I'd like to hear more about the process. I viewed the site pretty closely, but did not find any info on Restoration Detection and who would be in charge of that. Anyone find that info? That's another important issue if considering more valuable books for submission.

[fantastic_four]

Regardless of the company's merits, I LOVE the Report Card aspect, where the main flaws are detailed, along with region.

 

I like that feature too... its like getting the equivalent of the CGC "graders notes" right on the label. Currently you have to call CGC for that info. I proposed long ago that the graders notes (and the 3 grades) be included in the Collector's Society serial search... seems like a no brainer. Maybe that will happen in the future.

 

Other Positives are, unlike CGG so far. 3PG details the archival materials they are using with some background explanation. That is a huge issue for anyone wanting to use a service for a valuable book. The label is way better than CGG's as well.

 

I'm not so sure about the grading scale. It might be tough to maintain a respected level of accuracy and consistency when allowing all the micro in-between grades. Its already a highly debated/contested issue even with the current grading scale. Also "NM/M" appears to have been phased out?

(Also, on another note, GPA is going to have to make some adjustments to record 3PG sales data.. not a plug... relevant)

 

It appears that there will be only one grader? iI'd like to hear more about the process. I viewed the site pretty closely, but did not find any info on Restoration Detection and who would be in charge of that. Anyone find that info? That's another important issue if considering more valuable books for submission.

 

I think I'm going to have a heart attack...I'm agreeing wholeheartedly with Bruce, who in turn was agreeing wholeheartedly with Vince. Such positivity from Vince about a new idea is so RARE!!!

 

My raw opinion of CGG to date is that they're a poor man's CGC with no substantial improvements. In fact, I can't remember seeing ONE improvement from them, and I looked rather thoroughly I think, although I'm sure I missed an advantage they offer somewhere. I have to admit I haven't looked closely at whether they've improved much since they were first brought up on these boards. 3PG, however, is integrating one of the things we've complained about the most on here with regards to CGC; low disclosure of what goes into the grade. I've been urging them to print out the grader's notes and put them in a plastic sleeve attached to the back of the holder for almost a year...but this idea from 3PG of putting notes on the back label is probably a better idea than printing notes on a separate sheet of paper. Comics are much more complex than cards or coins, and more importantly, there are a lot of areas which aren't visible through the slab, which also is different from cards and coins. More defect disclosure than CGC has done so far will very likely become a mainstream part of grading for any successful company in the near future. This is why I hope 3PG becomes successful, and if they do, that back label may be their greatest positive contribution to high-grade back issue collecting.

 

Like Vince, I am quite pleasantly intrigued with 3PG's reporting of defects and the zones in which they appear. In the taxonomy of grading I've been working on, the three most important attributes of a defect are its type, its severity, and its location, and it appears that 3PG will be reporting on all three of those attributes.

 

I'm not so sure about the single grader aspect; I guess it all depends on how consistent this guy proves to be. I'm skeptical that one man will have the mental focus and concentration to not miss a bunch of defects, but I won't judge him until I see his work. Actually, the more I think about it, the more this one-man business model doesn't make sense...the founder may have a steely gaze that's hard to break, but I can't see his hired graders consistently catching as many defects as he does. And that's assuming he himself has way-above-average focus. This may be a back-breaker, although since he's specializing in modern books which will be mostly 9.0 and above, it may work for him.

 

Can anybody tell whether the outer holder is hardened? He mentions there are two holders, but I didn't notice specific details about each, nor could I tell much from the scans.

 

I agree with Bruce that the 100 point scale is awfully ambitious. But if he's got his standards more well-defined than the rest of the industry, it could work for him. It all depends on how he does. If he's consistent with the 100-point scale, he could change the way we all grade comics. If he isn't, the 100-point scale will kill his business. It'll be interesting to see how his grades stack up.

 

I have to say I'm impressed with the thinking behind the grading aspects of this company. They've identified a focused target market, and they've looked at CGC and come up with solid improvements. The facets of the business that myself and others are currently seeing as weaknesses may prove to not be that way for Modern books only. And I must say it again...I'm in love with that back label. It has some solid potential to change the way back issues are graded for the better.

[joe_collector]

[i agree with Bruce that the 100 point scale is awfully ambitious. But if he's got his standards more well-defined than the rest of the industry, it could work for him. It all depends on how he does. If he's consistent with the 100-point scale, he could change the way we all grade comics. If he isn't, the 100-point scale will kill his business. It'll be interesting to see how his grades stack up.

 

This is actually an old sportcard grading trend that emerged with PSA's competitors. Adding a few extra grades helped with submissions and re-subs, as a CGC 9.4 (that got a 9.6-9.8 from one grader) may actually be a 3PG 95 and could conceivably (in time) receive a higher sale price.

 

Where this really pays dividends is in resubs, especially in that gray zone between CGC 8.5 and 9.0. When 3PG (or another company's) 88-89 grade sells for more than a a CGC 8.5, then the resub wars start. Of course, this is usually more prevalent with older comics, so we'll have to wait and see how the market evolves.

[OldGuy]

I'm not so sure about the single grader aspect

 

From the web site:

 

3PG is owned and operated by Donald A. Garofalo. Mr. Garofalo has been in the comic industry for over 25 years. He has owned and operated four different locations of Don’s Comic’s and Card’s in Bergen County, New Jersey for over 15 years, and is highly regarded by his customers for his honesty, consistency, and accuracy in grading comics. Mr. Garofalo has stressed for years the need for consistent comic grading for the industry, and this comic grading system has evolved not only from traditional comic grading but also from his interactions with his many customers, as well as his fellow comic retailers. Mr. Garofalo personally inspects each graded comic for it’s final grade, and his professional staff has 30 years of combined grading experience. 3PG is a totally independent grading service and does not buy or sell comics which would be a conflict of interest. 3PG does not guarantee liquidity of your comics with its service. It should however supply you with a consistent grade that should give both the buyer and seller, or in some cases traders of comics added confidence in their transaction.

 

Sounds to me like he's the final grader, not the only grader.

[Lofwyr]

Good for them. CGC's market monopoly needs to broken soon anyways. Gouging people with high prices and sometimes very questionable grading criteria can only go on for so long. I think a big competitor can halve CGC's marketshare overnight as long as it has significant backing.

 

[joe_collector]

I think the Modern/Bronze market is wide open and ripe for a competitor.

[Ares]

Any of you going to stop submittign to CGC and start sending to 3pg?

[joe_collector]

Considering I stopped submitting to CGC a LOOONG time ago, maybe. Then again, their new lower prices on Moderns, I may give CGC another shot.

[garthgantu]

A quick take on the pros and cons...

Pros:

- grading notes...YES! Still TBD how helpful these are, but it's a start

- price ... anything that turns up the heat on CGC's pyramid scheme of a price structure is all to the good

 

Cons:

- Someone on the board said they liked the Mylar portion of 3PG's 'slab' - as far as I can see the Mylar IS the slab..? Looks very flimsy, almost an afterthought, at least compared to CGC's

- Lack of professionalism...overall, it just feels funky. Funky ain't good in this case.

- the 100-point grading system... I mocked this very notion a couple months back on another board. I don't see how this helps. It not only puts even MORE emphasis on the condition of the book, it absolutely ensures that no two people will grade the same comic the same way...

 

Garthgantu