Whatever Happened To PCS?

[Illiterati-migration]

 

"Wholesale destruction of comics"? I know the non-disclosure issue is a serious one, but does anyone think that using a tacking iron to flatten out a subtle edge or corner bend amounts to the "wholesale destruction of comics"? I've done the same thing with my finger on a ton of books over the years, and I'm sure so have all of you.

I'm just curious what the "rules of the game" are for back issue comic collecting. Whatever they are, just put it out there and let people decide. If PCS is an invitation-only BSD service where non-disclosure agreements are signed to participate, then officially announce that. So everyone is up to speed about today's marketplace.

 

If PCS services are so far outside the mainstream of most collecting preferences that it's been decided to keep it underground with legal "never disclose" contracts, that is troubling. It means one of the "rules of the game" is not on the table by choice , hidden from view, to the finacial advantage of a small minority of total participants.

 

Exactly. I don't think Scott was on the "same page", as it were. (Pardon the pun.)

[batman_fan]

I had an interesting converstaion with a dealer at Wondercon. We were talking about this whole pressing issue and I said "I would never do it to my books, they look fine as 8.0/9.0" and he said, "yeah, but your not selling either are you". This made me think, if I had a book that looked like a pressing could make it go from 9.0 to 9.4 would I do it if I were going to sell it? To be honest, it makes me step back and think long and hard. How many people have posted about a book they ahd as 9.0/9.2 that was upgrade to a 9.4/9.6 and then realize 2x or more the sell price they got for it. Who here is going to line up to sell the pressing kings of the hobby (we all know who many of these are) in the hobby your 8.0/9.0 books at a discount price so they can clean and press them into 9.4/9.6s? I need to step back and ask myself am I willing to leave the money on the table, or do I go the C&P route but disclose it when selling. For me, most of what I am selling these days are doubles and triples of Batmans that have restoration I disclose or are untouched but newer issues that don't need C&P, but someday, it is a question I will have to answer for myself.

[joe_collector]

Who here is going to line up to sell the pressing kings of the hobby (we all know who many of these are) in the hobby your 8.0/9.0 books at a discount price so they can clean and press them into 9.4/9.6s? I need to step back and ask myself am I willing to leave the money on the table, or do I go the C&P route but disclose it when selling.

 

One thing you have to remember, is that in the long run, none of this really matters. The whole scam will melt down soon, prices will tumble and we'll be back to square one anyway. This kind of BS never lasts long.

 

So from that context, clean and press all you can now, and get your maximum $$$ before it's too late. The hobby is screwed anyway, so who cares?

[shadroch]

"yeah,the windows already broken. If you don't grab that stuff now,somebody else will."

The electricity is out,there's no police around-its Christmas in September. The whole town is going under anyway,so grab what you can. You're not really hurting anyone,not really." New Orleans,9-2005 or CGC boards 2-2006?

[Davenport]

I had an interesting converstaion with a dealer at Wondercon. We were talking about this whole pressing issue and I said "I would never do it to my books, they look fine as 8.0/9.0" and he said, "yeah, but your not selling either are you". This made me think, if I had a book that looked like a pressing could make it go from 9.0 to 9.4 would I do it if I were going to sell it? To be honest, it makes me step back and think long and hard. How many people have posted about a book they ahd as 9.0/9.2 that was upgrade to a 9.4/9.6 and then realize 2x or more the sell price they got for it.

That's what I mean by "rules of the game". Maybe, just maybe, today's "10 Point" grading criteria needs to be revisited. Take another hard look at how grade slamming 'non-damage' bends and light dents are being professionally evaluated.

 

It may be the whole coinee/investor attracting grade scale evolved with offering a press & clean financial advantage to a select few in mind. Who knows? But there was certainly marketplace controversy over the changes in it's early introduction. So maybe collectors should take a long step back and reconsider how much grade-lowering damage is truly present with light bends/dents, when it's so easily corrected down the hall for a fee. Maybe start from a persective of "they're paper, not metal" and rethink what damaged paper is and isn't.

[Mr. Zipper]

Yeah, now it's "Cleve Moorcock".

 

Sounds like a porn star.

[FFB]

Then riddle me this:

 

Why in the world would you a) spend the money on the press & the other equipment, and b) set up your entire business around clean and pressing and other undisclosed resto, if all you need is a wet finger?

 

I think we both know the answer to that question, and that PCS is doing FAR MORE than just "flattening a corner" here and there.

 

I didn't say it was ALL he was doing. But to claim that Chris Friesen is "destroying" the books he is working on (whether with a tacking iron, dry mount press, weighted glass, or whatever) is ridiculous.

[FFB]

 

"Wholesale destruction of comics"? I know the non-disclosure issue is a serious one, but does anyone think that using a tacking iron to flatten out a subtle edge or corner bend amounts to the "wholesale destruction of comics"? I've done the same thing with my finger on a ton of books over the years, and I'm sure so have all of you.

I'm just curious what the "rules of the game" are for back issue comic collecting. Whatever they are, just put it out there and let people decide. If PCS is an invitation-only BSD service where non-disclosure agreements are signed to participate, then officially announce that. So everyone is up to speed about today's marketplace.

 

If PCS services are so far outside the mainstream of most collecting preferences that it's been decided to keep it underground with legal "never disclose" contracts, that is troubling. It means one of the "rules of the game" is not on the table by choice , hidden from view, to the finacial advantage of a small minority of total participants.

 

Exactly. I don't think Scott was on the "same page", as it were. (Pardon the pun.)

 

Right -- I agree with everything Kevin is saying here. I just think one can make this exact point without weakening one's argument by misrepresenting what Friesen is doing as the "wholesale destruction of comics."

[batman_fan]

I personally think it is a little premature to say what service PCS is providing and conclude it does not affect the integrity of the comics. I have not heard or seen posted anything concerning what they can do to books. Until such time, I will play the wait and see game rather than make assumption of what they are doing.

[mosconi]

I personally think it is a little premature to say what service PCS is providing and conclude it does not affect the integrity of the comics. I have not heard or seen posted anything concerning what they can do to books. Until such time, I will play the wait and see game rather than make assumption of what they are doing.

 

PCS?? Maybe Ewert has found new employment and is currently in charge of trimin... er "prepping" all the comics before clean and press All this comic/market manipulation has become laughable. Spin it however you want, but only the BSD's with connections are taking advantage, while everyone else is taken advantage of.

[Illiterati-migration]

 

"Wholesale destruction of comics"? I know the non-disclosure issue is a serious one, but does anyone think that using a tacking iron to flatten out a subtle edge or corner bend amounts to the "wholesale destruction of comics"? I've done the same thing with my finger on a ton of books over the years, and I'm sure so have all of you.

I'm just curious what the "rules of the game" are for back issue comic collecting. Whatever they are, just put it out there and let people decide. If PCS is an invitation-only BSD service where non-disclosure agreements are signed to participate, then officially announce that. So everyone is up to speed about today's marketplace.

 

If PCS services are so far outside the mainstream of most collecting preferences that it's been decided to keep it underground with legal "never disclose" contracts, that is troubling. It means one of the "rules of the game" is not on the table by choice , hidden from view, to the finacial advantage of a small minority of total participants.

 

Exactly. I don't think Scott was on the "same page", as it were. (Pardon the pun.)

 

Right -- I agree with everything Kevin is saying here. I just think one can make this exact point without weakening one's argument by misrepresenting what Friesen is doing as the "wholesale destruction of comics."

 

I am the Great Moderator®.

[Davenport]

I have nothing against restoration/conservation skills & practices. They certainly have a place in the feild of paper collectibles. Plus I think it's facinating and admire the artistry and craftmanship involved. But that's a different topic...

 

Where I think things slipped off into bizarro-world is when the Ewert-type behaviors began to appear, including pressing & cleaning in high volume to pull more money from pockets. Remove the financial incentives and it's silly behavior that requires a grading label to work. I mean, c'mon. Micro-trimming high grade to go higher? Cleaning and pressing high grade to get a smidge higher? Please. That whole coinee-mindset of "whizzing' high grade examples into higher grades seems asinine when applied to paper collectibles.

 

To me it shouldn't matter which side of the debate you're on. If paper isn't damaged after it's pressed, it wasn't really damaged before it was pressed. That's a propery of paper, right? It has a certain amount of flex before surface inks crack and fibers actually break, depending on thickness of stock. Shouldn't that be taken into account whenever evaluating the condition of a paper comic book? I mean in theory every comic book in existence could be re-pressed to remove light bends or dents. That doesn't mean it should be done or that it's a value-added practice for everybody when it is done. And that's the only reason to hide the practice, isn't it? So that everybody in the back issue marketplace unknowingly pays one way or another in support of it's "value".

 

Hey, is this a rant? Here ya go.>

[mosconi]

How's it going Davenport. In agreement, I have no problem with restoration if professionally performed and fully disclosed. It's all these underhanded, shady dealings going on behind the scenes intended to manipulate high grades and deceive the public with all of CGC's blue label blessings .

[FFB]

 

"Wholesale destruction of comics"? I know the non-disclosure issue is a serious one, but does anyone think that using a tacking iron to flatten out a subtle edge or corner bend amounts to the "wholesale destruction of comics"? I've done the same thing with my finger on a ton of books over the years, and I'm sure so have all of you.

I'm just curious what the "rules of the game" are for back issue comic collecting. Whatever they are, just put it out there and let people decide. If PCS is an invitation-only BSD service where non-disclosure agreements are signed to participate, then officially announce that. So everyone is up to speed about today's marketplace.

 

If PCS services are so far outside the mainstream of most collecting preferences that it's been decided to keep it underground with legal "never disclose" contracts, that is troubling. It means one of the "rules of the game" is not on the table by choice , hidden from view, to the finacial advantage of a small minority of total participants.

 

Exactly. I don't think Scott was on the "same page", as it were. (Pardon the pun.)

 

Right -- I agree with everything Kevin is saying here. I just think one can make this exact point without weakening one's argument by misrepresenting what Friesen is doing as the "wholesale destruction of comics."

 

I am the Great Moderator®.

 

That's what I like about you -- your versatility.

[Aces]

See the latest issue of CBG.

Can you scan the ad and post it?

 

There is one in the 2005 guide too I think.

I was shocked when I saw it and no one posted it here!

 

 

I'll go dig it up....

[FlyingDonut]

Not from Pedigree. Classics Incorporated (Matt Nelson)

[EastEnd]

PCS has been in business for some time now.

 

It's invite only and you have to sign disclaimers to the effect that you won't say anything to anybody.

 

FACT

 

If this is truly going on -- and I'd love some more concrete confirmation of it -- it's the most blatant, underhanded attempt to screw the collecting community out of their dollars that I've ever heard of. It it's true, it's an abomination.

[Aces]

Not from Pedigree. Classics Incorporated (Matt Nelson)

 

 

I got the scan of the page.

 

[Aces]

For those of you who want to see it for yourselves it's on page 10 (or so depending on when you start counting because there are some blank pages) of the 2005 hard cover Overstreet.

 

 

The AM 7 went from 6.5 to 9.0!

[Flaming_Telepath]

PCS has been in business for some time now.

 

It's invite only and you have to sign disclaimers to the effect that you won't say anything to anybody.

 

FACT

 

If this is truly going on -- and I'd love some more concrete confirmation of it -- it's the most blatant, underhanded attempt to screw the collecting community out of their dollars that I've ever heard of. It it's true, it's an abomination.

 

It IS going on, and has been for some time. Trust me on this.

 

If anyone cares to take a search back in time, I was the one to suggest, some 18-odd months ago, that Friesen was working on books in house, and was about to break off into an related company, undertaking 'services'.

 

'Course, I was met by howls of gleeful derision at the time by a number of the CGC faithful...

 

But my, how things have changed.