Intriguing Definitional Changes In New 2006 Overstreet Guide

[Aman619]

much more likely than some very involved Geppi calling a meeting to see what needs to be done on the pressing issue!

[Aman619]

To use your analogy, Steve hardly ever smokes, let alone inhales. And wasnt there when this little doobie was fired up late one night...

[Aman619]

my overall sense on what happenned, and Ill be sorry for saying it maybe when Marc comes back tomorrow with the answers, is that Overstreet et al saw the direction CGC was going last fall in regards to PCS etc. And -- as they have been forced to do the last few years, they took another step into this Brave New CGC World by going along with CGCs pressing stance. They realize to their chagrin that after 30 years on top, things have changed. They no longer lead, but follow. And are afraid that if they stray too far from the pack, {especially CGC, the leaders of the pack} they will be finished.

 

Unfortunately for them, (as my personal timeline has it, and from an anti-pressing viewpoint), they moved too soon. Now that CGC has backed off on PCS, perhaps the tide is turning backward a bit to the OLD pre-CGC thinking that Overstreet ruled alone. Overstreet could have waited to capitulate on the pressing issue a bit longer, sparing them this little controversy in the making. Instead it was made in the mindset of catching up FASTER in the direction CGC was going last fall.

 

and as to all my ravings on the Geppi involvement or not, these are my opinions. Obviously, were Steve and I busom buddies rather than acquaintances, comics "fellow travelers", I wouldnt be posting here about this. By posting I hope its clear that Im speaking for ME alone, and may be right or wrong accordingly.

[awe4one]

Unfortunately for them, (as my personal timeline has it, and from an anti-pressing viewpoint), they moved too soon. Now that CGC has backed off on PCS, perhaps the tide is turning backward a bit to the OLD pre-CGC thinking that Overstreet ruled alone. Overstreet could have waited to capitulate on the pressing issue a bit longer, sparing them this little controversy in the making. Instead it was made in the mindset of catching up FASTER in the direction CGC was going last fall.

 

Actually I don't see it that way at all. I think CGC/CCG moved too fast in regards to PCS. They miscalculated the market was ready when in fact it wasn't. What's going to happen now is little by little the pressing is not resto argument will continue in the hobby, and be supported by some of more identifiable collectors in the hobby who have all to gain from pressing, until such time as enough collectors are swayed that CCG can go back and restart the press for hire service with minimal backlash. OS making this subtle but significant change is part of that plan...

 

Jim

[EastEnd]

A smart business man worth tens of millions of dollars generally would not waste time pressing comics... the cost/benefit simply isn't there. If Mr.Geppi were doing this, his greed would border on being a mental disorder.

 

Who in the world stated that Geppi was physically pressing his own books for profit? That's one really bizarre leap of logic.

 

If this is in fact collusion, then it would involve many of the big players, and while Geppi would not benefit from the pressing give, he'd definitely take something else away from the deal. Again, I'm not saying this happened, but I'm only stating it's incredibly simplistic to envision Geppi's ONLY possible gain being through physically pressing his own books.

 

Think about it, who stands to gain the most from a deletion of "pressing" from the official OS Guide, the bible of the hobby? And which of those have something to barter back with Geppi.

 

Start your list now....

 

I think you've watched too much X-Files.

[joe_collector]

I think you've watched too much X-Files.

 

I think you haven't watched enough CNN.

[EastEnd]

I think you've watched too much X-Files.

 

I think you haven't watched enough CNN.

 

Actually, I'm an owner of CNN.

[tth2]

What's going to happen now is little by little the pressing is not resto argument will continue in the hobby, and be supported by some of more identifiable collectors in the hobby who have all to gain from pressing, until such time as enough collectors are swayed that CCG can go back and restart the press for hire service with minimal backlash. OS making this subtle but significant change is part of that plan...

Jim, you give a whole new meaning to the expression "glass half empty". I better load up on Aloca stock, because apparently the consumption of tin foil is skyrocketing.

[joe_collector]

Actually, I'm an owner of CNN.

 

Then buy a TV and start watching the business segments.

 

Eye-opening stuff going on, and that's just what we KNOW happened, not EVERYTHING that happened. Greed is not a conspiracy, it's a way of life.

[Aman619]

Unfortunately for them, (as my personal timeline has it, and from an anti-pressing viewpoint), they moved too soon. Now that CGC has backed off on PCS, perhaps the tide is turning backward a bit to the OLD pre-CGC thinking that Overstreet ruled alone. Overstreet could have waited to capitulate on the pressing issue a bit longer, sparing them this little controversy in the making. Instead it was made in the mindset of catching up FASTER in the direction CGC was going last fall.

 

Actually I don't see it that way at all. I think CGC/CCG moved too fast in regards to PCS. They miscalculated the market was ready when in fact it wasn't. What's going to happen now is little by little the pressing is not resto argument will continue in the hobby, and be supported by some of more identifiable collectors in the hobby who have all to gain from pressing, until such time as enough collectors are swayed that CCG can go back and restart the press for hire service with minimal backlash. OS making this subtle but significant change is part of that plan...

 

Jim

 

I dont think what you say disagrees with me. I also think CGC moved too fast. but I wasnt commenting on that, but rather on Overstreet taking CGCs premature move as a done deal and hurrying to get "on board"

 

in that sense, Overstreet definition change will AID CGCs cause. and I agree that it may now be easier for CGC with the Overstreet Guide no longer calling pressing as restoration.

 

But, I still think its plausible that Overstreets move was made for the reasons I stated, namely, following what was CGCs lead as of last fall when the Guide gets put together. They had no way of knowing that CGC would reverse course in early 2006, AFTER the Guide was put to bed, and leave Overstreet hanging, endorsing a stance that I somehow do not think they would have made had CGC's influence not taken over the hobby to the extent they have.

[Scheradon]

I've been thinking about this...

 

Just say that even if every single employee at CGC from the top to the bottom personally felt that pressing was indeed restoration, how as a company though could they state that position without losing credibility since they cannot detect it?

 

There are only two solutions I see for them:

 

1) Find a way to detect pressing, then tout that as a great advance for finding restoration and further protecting the hobby.

 

or

 

2) Keep on denying that it's restoration and putting any influence they may have within the hobby to spread that philosophy.

 

There's just no way from a business standpoint that they can have the position of pressing being resto and still have the buying public remain confident in their restoration detection skills. They've already shown to have their hands full with micro-trimming, can you imagine adding currently undetectable pressing to that mix?

 

I wish there were a way, as I'm in the pressing is resto camp, but I think their business model doesn't allow them to be there with me.

[EastEnd]

Actually, I'm an owner of CNN.

 

Then buy a TV and start watching the business segments.

 

Eye-opening stuff going on, and that's just what we KNOW happened, not EVERYTHING that happened. Greed is not a conspiracy, it's a way of life.

 

Really, so what's happened that has you all bent out of shape?

[joe_collector]

Really, so what's happened that has you all bent out of shape?

 

The usual "Watch out for the conspiracy theories"/"Better get your tin-foil hats" BS that crops up whenever any dirty laundry is being aired on here. Like greed does not exist and everyone at Gemstone is a freaking saint.

 

I realize it's just CGC Supporters trying to shut people up (they tried the same trick with Ewert ), but the same old from the same inbred losers does get tiring.

[joe_collector]

how as a company though could they state that position without losing credibility since they cannot detect it?

 

And you wonder how fiction becomes fact - with enough repetition.

 

Pressing can be detected, but like most things in life, it cannot be detected 100% of the time with absolute certainty. That is far different than saying it "cannot be detected", like it's some rogue technique that is absolutely totally undetectable, 100% of the time.

 

But how does pressing then differ from trimming, CT or any other restoration technique that has been proven to elude CGC on occasion?

[EastEnd]

Really, so what's happened that has you all bent out of shape?

 

The usual "Watch out for the conspiracy theories"/"Better get your tin-foil hats" BS that crops up whenever any dirty laundry is being aired on here. Like greed does not exist and everyone at Gemstone is a freaking saint.

 

I realize it's just CGC Supporters trying to shut people up (they tried the same trick with Ewert ), but the same old from the same inbred losers does get tiring.

 

No, it's just rational people trying to bring a dose of reality to the conversation. There were no aliens at Area 51 and there is no Secret Society of Rich Comic Book People (that includes just about every name in the hobby if you listen to people like you) out there doing their best to screw the average hobbyist.

[Aman619]

I've been thinking about this...

 

Just say that even if every single employee at CGC from the top to the bottom personally felt that pressing was indeed restoration, how as a company though could they state that position without losing credibility since they cannot detect it?

 

There are only two solutions I see for them:

 

1) Find a way to detect pressing, then tout that as a great advance for finding restoration and further protecting the hobby.

 

or

 

2) Keep on denying that it's restoration and putting any influence they may have within the hobby to spread that philosophy.

 

There's just no way from a business standpoint that they can have the position of pressing being resto and still have the buying public remain confident in their restoration detection skills. They've already shown to have their hands full with micro-trimming, can you imagine adding currently undetectable pressing to that mix?

 

I wish there were a way, as I'm in the pressing is resto camp, but I think their business model doesn't allow them to be there with me.

 

good point. But I along with others wish (and still hope) CGC will do nothing to encourage pressing and other forms of hidden restoration. By sanctioning it (whether because they cant detect it (which they deny) or because they do not think it IS restoration) CGC CAUSES OR ENABLES more pressing. There will always be crooks out there. Why not fight them and strive to limit the damage to the crooks.... instead of enlisting "honest" collectors and dealers, helping them cash in.

 

But, in CGCs defense, if pressing isnt restoration, whats the big deal?

[joe_collector]

No, it's just rational people trying to bring a dose of reality to the conversation.

 

So let me get this straight, Ewert did NOT trim books and Schmell did NOT get disbarred? I state this because the "reality crew" stated the EXACT same thing when these scenarios were uncovered.

 

If that's "reality" then I wish you well, buddy.

[joe_collector]

But, in CGCs defense, if pressing isnt restoration, whats the big deal?

 

I personally don't see a big deal with pressing, but then again, I'm not heavily vested in high-grade CGC slabs.

 

If I was, I would be extremely angry at all these scammers artificially increasing the available high-grade supply, and devaluing my investments.

[EastEnd]

No, it's just rational people trying to bring a dose of reality to the conversation.

 

So let me get this straight, Ewert did NOT trim books and Schmell did NOT get disbarred? I state this because the "reality crew" stated the EXACT same thing when these scenarios were uncovered.

 

If that's "reality" then I wish you well, buddy.

 

Actually, I spoke out against both of those pinheads on these boards. But there are unethical folks in every business and just because Ewert and Schmell did what they did, independent of one another, doesn't mean that there is a gargantuan conspiracy of greed afoot in this hobby by virtually all the major players as some simpletons would have you believe.

[joe_collector]

Actually, I spoke out against both of those pinheads on these boards.

 

All you bangwagon-jumpers did... AFTER it was all uncovered, but those who offered up evidence early or stated business dealings with Ewert, were slammed as "conspiracy theorists" and berated at every turn.

 

But I guess you want us to forget all about how you and your cronies supported Ewert initially?