Grading square-bound books with staples wearing through the cover...?

[Inhuman Fiend]

Regarding those square-bound, giant-size comics (usually Marvels) and some magazines that have the glued spines with the staples inside the covers...how does it affect the grade when the staple begins to wear through the cover a little bit? I just bought an otherwise high-grade copy of Savage Tales #1 that has a little show through on the top staple in the front, but even more on the back cover where it has actually worn through in one very tiny area. If the mag is otherwise a 8.5 to 9.0, how much would you deduct for the staple wear?

 

Opinions much appreciated...!

[Point Five]

No idea, but I'd very much like to know the answer myself!

 

Maybe post your Savage Tales #1 to kick things off?

[Inhuman Fiend]

Here is the front...you can see a little show-through mark just above and to the left of the date and price. The one on the back is a little worse with a tiny bit of the staple actually visible...(sorry, I'm at work and don't have a scan of the back yet)

 

[joeypost]

I would imagine you have to decide if the defect is a printing defect or a general wear defect.IMHO the placement of the staples will cause wear and this is a defect and the book should be graded accordingly.

[Point Five]

Is it even possible for a squarebound book with this kind of staple placement to have no wear at all, even when you're talking about very high-grade books? Hoping that some of the BA squarebound specialists here will weigh in.

[Inhuman Fiend]

I would imagine you have to decide if the defect is a printing defect or a general wear defect.IMHO the placement of the staples will cause wear and this is a defect and the book should be graded accordingly.

 

OK so let's just say it is otherwise an 8.5...how much would you knock it down?

[joeypost]

Again, that depends. If the staples just cause some general wear and do not tear or cut through the cover the book would not take that hard of a hit. If both staples cause tears then a nice 8.5 would be reduced considerably. Here's an example, I sent a Godzilla #1 price variant in that structurally was a 9.0-9.2. Very clean book with just one spine tick and and no other major defects except for a small tear on the top FC. It was 1/4 of an inch long. It came back an 8.0 so the tear reduced what I thought to be a VF/NM to NM-book to a VF book. In your case the damage is not that sever so I would say it might be .5 depending who grades it that day.

[divad]

Looks like a solid 8.5 to me

 

I think that defects like this are what they are: small defects which need to be added to the total cumulative score for deduction. Many high grade books have numerous small defects which added together yield the proper deduction. Look at the graphs in the front of the OSGG regarding the number of allowable cumulative defects in each grade for further instruction.

 

Due to the arguable production related nature of the defect, combined with the fact that it appears on many copies of these mags and giant-sized comics, and given the lesser degree of severity, I think it's safe to call it a small to tiny defect and count it as one.

 

1/4" tears, or creases larger than 1/2" on the other hand, cannot be counted as small defects and deductions must be made according to the highest grade that such "minor to moderate to severe" defects would allow. Remember, that your job grading a book is not to whittle every book down to a VG, but rather, give the book the highest grade it can acheive withing the limits of recognized grading factors.

[awe4one]

Depends...I have a CGC 9.4 squarebound that has a small hole in the front cover from a staple...

 

Here's another that received a CGC 8.0...

 

 

Same type staple damage on both...

 

Jim

[Tatterdamillion]

For what it is worth, my GS X-Men 1 had the staple rub through the cover and get a 9.2. Approximately three years ago a friend and I who had never submitted books to CGC were surmising what certain books would get and we both thought 8.0 for the Giant Size X-men. I didn't know you could call for grades but was definately surprised when I opened the box and saw that grade. ??

[divad]

For what it is worth, my GS X-Men 1 had the staple rub through the cover and get a 9.2. Approximately three years ago a friend and I who had never submitted books to CGC were surmising what certain books would get and we both thought 8.0 for the Giant Size X-men. I didn't know you could call for grades but was definately surprised when I opened the box and saw that grade. ??

 

Congrats! But no doubt, overall, the book was much nicer than an 8.0 . . .

[Inhuman Fiend]

So now I'm really curious as to what mine would pull...it is only the 2nd magazine I've ever owned since I've been collecting so I don't feel as confident giving it a grade. It appears to be an 8.5 or better but have no idea how much CGC will deduct for the staple wear. I might have to send it in for the heck of it...do they charge more for magazines?

[Point Five]

I have no idea where CGC would come out, but I do agree with the spirit of what David wrote on the first page. If your book were a 9.4 or 9.6, I think the wear might drop it a few grades, but in the VFs it should be more allowable as general light wear. Just my opinion, but if your book is an 8.5 without the staple rubs I think overall it should grade an 8.0, maybe 7.5 worst case.

[awe4one]

Personally I think any stable poking out of the cover on a squarebound should get no higher than a 8.0...even if it was pristine otherwise...

 

Jim

[FFB]

Personally I think any stable poking out of the cover on a squarebound should get no higher than a 8.0...even if it was pristine otherwise...

 

Jim

 

Why should any staple production tear/poke mark be treated so differently from a tiny production tear or edge chip?

[divad]

Personally I think any stable poking out of the cover on a squarebound should get no higher than a 8.0...even if it was pristine otherwise...

 

Jim

 

Except for your "CGC 9.4 squarebound that has a small hole in the front cover from a staple..."

 

Why don't you break that one out, and sell it to me as an 8.0? Let justice be served

[awe4one]

Personally I think any staple poking out of the cover on a squarebound should get no higher than a 8.0...even if it was pristine otherwise...

 

Jim

 

Why should any staple production tear/poke mark be treated so differently from a tiny production tear or edge chip?

 

Because the cover has been torn. And who says the damage didn't happen after production?

 

Regardless, I've never agreed with CGC's stance on production defects. Before they showed up production defects were always factored into the overall grade by the dealers I dealt with.

 

Jim

[awe4one]

Except for your "CGC 9.4 squarebound that has a small hole in the front cover from a staple..."

 

Yep...I think it should have been graded lower.

 

Jim

[divad]

Except for your "CGC 9.4 squarebound that has a small hole in the front cover from a staple..."

 

Yep...I think it should have been graded lower.

 

Jim

 

Yep, I agree. I am often disappointed when I purchase a slab, and certain defects have been "overlooked"; while sometimes others have been hammered unnecessarily.

[FFB]

Personally I think any staple poking out of the cover on a squarebound should get no higher than a 8.0...even if it was pristine otherwise...

 

Jim

 

Why should any staple production tear/poke mark be treated so differently from a tiny production tear or edge chip?

 

Because the cover has been torn. And who says the damage didn't happen after production?

 

Regardless, I've never agreed with CGC's stance on production defects. Before they showed up production defects were always factored into the overall grade by the dealers I dealt with.

 

Jim

 

OK, but a tiny staple tear is far less visually distracting than color-breaking spine stress or small corner creases, right? Isn't the grade supposed to represent primarily the visual appeal of the book? You can't even usually see a small staple hole like that unless you squint. No way would I call a pristine book with a small staple hole a VF 8.0.