What A Bargain...

[Black Hawk]

Look you would have to be a total insufficiently_thoughtful_person or just insanely naive to think that you dont have pressed books in your collection. especially if you are a Golden Age collector. They have been doing it with GA books since the late 90's. With CGC in the game it picked up tremendously in 2003.

Well if you bought the books new or from a collection that was stored in a chicken coop for 30 years, I think it's safe to assume they aren't pressed.

[Zonker]

the reality is that we're probably talking about beautiful books somewhere in the 9.0 - 9.4 range that have a non color breaking crease, a wrinkle, an impact crease, a thumbnail indent, a wave, whatever.........

 

Have you forgotten about the Boy Comics #17 (4.0 to 9.0)?

 

Jim

 

But I don't think anyone believes that book or any other can simply be pressed from a VG up to high grade, do they? The Boy #17 got its primary jump based on the staple re-attachment. How staple re-attachment escaped the PLOD is another question...

[awe4one]

the reality is that we're probably talking about beautiful books somewhere in the 9.0 - 9.4 range that have a non color breaking crease, a wrinkle, an impact crease, a thumbnail indent, a wave, whatever.........

 

Have you forgotten about the Boy Comics #17 (4.0 to 9.0)?

 

Jim

 

But I don't think anyone believes that book or any other can simply be pressed from a VG up to high grade, do they? The Boy #17 got its primary jump based on the staple re-attachment. How staple re-attachment escaped the PLOD is another question...

 

Hard to say what's possible based on what we've seen over the last year...

 

Jim

[lou_fine]

I wonder what he charges for a neat micro-trim? Would anyone be surprised to find out if this [embarrassing lack of self control] was JE's partner in crime?

 

 

Not in the least . . .

 

Wouldn't shock me at all anymore. It's getting to the point where a positive step in the hobby (like shutting down PCS) is more shocking than a negative one.

 

One thing that's interesting is that much like PCS shutting down and Classic's Inc. getting that business, it seems Ewart gets shut down and Classic Inc. has all the 9.8s and consistent High Grades. Whether there is anything to that or not, I can't help but to have Ewart flash backs everytime I see his new batch of made to order goodies.

 

Yes, definitely a major problem here in the hobby place.

 

I actually see no difference between what Ewert was doing and what Nelson is doing right now with his books. Both practices served the exact same purpose with both being equally undetectable and both with the express strategy of passing off an artificially manipulated book as being unrestored.

 

The only difference is that pressing is a much much larger problem in the hobby place right now as compared to micro-trimming. At least with micro-trimming, you have some small semblance of self-control as the majority of collectors are afraid to risk doing this since CGC deems this to be an unacceptable practice and claims they will "try" their best to catch it.

 

Pressing, on the other hand is fair game since this practice is openly endorsed by CGC. As a result, we have every scammer in the industry trying to doctor up their books and quietly using CGC who happily and willingly covers it up after the fact.

 

Absolutely no surprise that these scammers don't have the balls to admit to this co-called "legal practice" since everybody definitely knows it for what it really is.

[lou_fine]

Look you would have to be a total insufficiently_thoughtful_person or just insanely naive to think that you dont have pressed books in your collection. especially if you are a Golden Age collector. They have been doing it with GA books since the late 90's. With CGC in the game it picked up tremendously in 2003.

 

I don't even collect GA books and I'll bet you I have pressed books mixed throughout my collection. It pizzes me off too. Thanks to 99% of sellers not disclosing it and CGC not noting it, we all have probably got a few unless we were the original owners of the books.

 

Don't know why most collectors tend to assume the majority of this type of work is done to only GA books. As evident from Ewert's submission lists, virtually all of the books which he worked on were actually BA and late SA books. When you are talking about micro-trimming and pressing, the easiest and fastest place to make money is probably in the BA and late SA books since there are just so many of them around for you to work your magic on.

 

The GA books are actually tougher to pass off since there is much more of an audit trail since there are just so few of them around.

[joe_collector]

Don't know why most collectors tend to assume the majority of this type of work is done to only GA books.

 

The original "Golden Age" comment was for PRE-CGC comics, and I think everyone realizes that most HG key SA and BA CGC books have been manipulated.

[lou_fine]

the reality is that we're probably talking about beautiful books somewhere in the 9.0 - 9.4 range that have a non color breaking crease, a wrinkle, an impact crease, a thumbnail indent, a wave, whatever.........

 

Harry;

 

What you are describing here is exactly what I now look for in a HG book. High grade books with just a single tiny defect that can be fixed by pressing to me is a good idication that the book has probably not been pressed.

 

I also now avoid cetain dealers such as CLink, Heritage, Pedigree, etc. since a large part of their reputation seems to be built around questionable HG books similar to how Ewert's reputation was built before with his HG books.

 

My motto is: if you don't want to get burn, then it's best not to step into the middle of a fire and assume the flames will touch everybody else except for you.

[lou_fine]

Don't know why most collectors tend to assume the majority of this type of work is done to only GA books.

 

The original "Golden Age" comment was for PRE-CGC comics, and I think everyone realizes that most HG key SA and BA CGC books have been manipulated.

 

JC;

 

Don't be sucked in by Steve B's continual argument that pressing has always been an ongoing phenomenon in the bad old days prior to CGC. This blanket statement is used only to justify CGC's current stance on pressing, and rings true ONLY if you apply certain key qualifications to it.

 

Pressing was indeed performed on books in the bad old days, but only as a finishing touch in association with other more detectable restoration activities. I don't know of anybody or have ever heard of exclusive pressing in the bad old days since there was just no money to be made from this practice.

 

Collectors in the bad old days paid a lot more attention to defects such as QP and off-centre pages which could be seen from across the convention floor. Much less attention was paid to the barely visible defects such as miniscule non-colour breaking creases which could only be seen by holding the book up to a certain angle to the light. With the advent of CGC, this criteria was changed all around and resulted in pressing becoming the cottage industry it is today.

 

Bottom-line: Exclusive pressing is a by-product of the CGC phenomenon and a practice not done in the bad old days prior to CGC.

[Aman619]

Don't know why most collectors tend to assume the majority of this type of work is done to only GA books.

 

The original "Golden Age" comment was for PRE-CGC comics, and I think everyone realizes that most HG key SA and BA CGC books have been manipulated.

 

JC;

 

Don't be sucked in by Steve B's continual argument that pressing has always been an ongoing phenomenon in the bad old days prior to CGC. This blanket statement is used only to justify CGC's current stance on pressing, and rings true ONLY if you apply certain key qualifications to it.

 

Pressing was indeed performed on books in the bad old days, but only as a finishing touch in association with other more detectable restoration activities. I don't know of anybody or have ever heard of exclusive pressing in the bad old days since there was just no money to be made from this practice.

 

Collectors in the bad old days paid a lot more attention to defects such as QP and off-centre pages which could be seen from across the convention floor. Much less attention was paid to the barely visible defects such as miniscule non-colour breaking creases which could only be seen by holding the book up to a certain angle to the light. With the advent of CGC, this criteria was changed all around and resulted in pressing becoming the cottage industry it is today.

 

Bottom-line: Exclusive pressing is a by-product of the CGC phenomenon and a practice not done in the bad old days prior to CGC.

 

thats ironic since CGC has been th efirst to even CARE about those 'invisible' creases etc. We never saw them or cared... suddenly CGC focuses their grading parameters on them in large part.... and guess what? Up pops a bunch of opportunists taking advantage of the CGC new rules. The Law of Unintended Consequences at work.

 

well, we hope it was unintended!

[Scheradon]

 

 

...and hey Red, I'll turn all your Green Rivers into Green Flows of cash for just $14 each.

[Davenport]

 

thats ironic since CGC has been th efirst to even CARE about those 'invisible' creases etc. We never saw them or cared... suddenly CGC focuses their grading parameters on them in large part.... and guess what? Up pops a bunch of opportunists taking advantage of the CGC new rules. The Law of Unintended Consequences at work.

 

well, we hope it was unintended!

Seems more like a very intentional business model, along the lines of NGC/NCS. First create the need, then service it. The "need" for pressing, like you point out, is fueled by label chasing. Without that label most people wouldn't care about mashing a nice 9.4 into a 9.8 imho.

[lou_fine]

 

thats ironic since CGC has been th efirst to even CARE about those 'invisible' creases etc. We never saw them or cared... suddenly CGC focuses their grading parameters on them in large part.... and guess what? Up pops a bunch of opportunists taking advantage of the CGC new rules. The Law of Unintended Consequences at work.

 

well, we hope it was unintended!

Seems more like a very intentional business model, along the lines of NGC/NCS. First create the need, then service it. The "need" for pressing, like you point out, is fueled by label chasing. Without that label most people wouldn't care about mashing a nice 9.4 into a 9.8 imho.

 

Davenport;

 

Yes, when I first heard about PCS, the conspiracy theorist in me thought right away that this inordinate attention paid to barely visible non-colour breaking creases were part of CCG's game plan along right from the beginning.

 

Nothing better than to create demand for a service where there was no particular need for such an exclusive service before.

 

Now that's the sign of a smart business model.

[shadroch]

So let's discuss Matt's endeavor here...

 

He's taking otherwise pretty HG comics and is catering to the 9.6/9.8 collectors by destroying them, by pressing, and suggesting their relative grading score by CGC...

 

CGC doesn't care and promotes these pressing monstrosities, and yes they are Frankenbooks, by giving these uber grades

 

Please...somebody...tell me how this is good for the hobby?

 

And please spare me with the "we don't care care about pressing argument" because evidently enough collectors have to make PCS a dead enterprise for the selected dealers...

 

Jim

 

Jim,

Please don't confuse people being upset with CGC,an independent grading company,for opening up a pressing service with people being down on pressing.

I,for one,have not come to the conclusion that collectors pressing their own books is that bad a thing.I'll give you a hypothetical. I have a pretty HG run of Captain Americas,from TOS 58- to Cap 200.Except for Cap 100 and 112,I'd say they are all a minimum 9.0,most much higher.

I can buy a nice #112 for $25,but a real nice one is $100.Rather than give a dealer the extra $75,perhaps I'll save $50 and have the faults pressed out.Now I have the book I want,and money to buy more books.

As long as I keep the books and am happy,whats the harm?

What I do have the problem with is dealers pressing books soley to make more money by selling them without disclosing the fact they've been pressed.

I never have had a book pressed,but its something I may consider for some keepers in my collection.a perfect example is a Spidey 100 tat I've shown a bunch of forumites. Inside a mylar,it appears to be a 9.6,but when removed you can see a moisture ripple. Bugs me everytime I see the book.$25 would be a small price for some peace of mind.

[lou_fine]

Look you would have to be a total insufficiently_thoughtful_person or just insanely naive to think that you dont have pressed books in your collection. especially if you are a Golden Age collector. They have been doing it with GA books since the late 90's. With CGC in the game it picked up tremendously in 2003.

 

 

ronm3;

 

Didn't mean to ignore your original comments.

 

As you and I have already stated before, pressing was also prevalent in the bad old days prior to CGC before gaining speed in 2003 with CGC. There is a major difference, however, between the two types of pressing.

 

The pressing in the bad old days would result in your GA book receiving a purple label since it was almost always done in association with other more detectable resto activities such as repairs, reinforcement, pieces added, etc. The current type of pressing which we are talking about is exclusive pressing which is designed to bring out the full potential of your book and still end up with a blue label. This type of pressing was just not done to the GA books in the bad old days since there was no payoff for having this activity done.

 

Bottom-line: Don't be confused by the spin from the pro-pressing side, since pressing in the bad old days is a completely different animal from the exclusive pressing taking place nowadays.

[Aman619]

So let's discuss Matt's endeavor here...

 

He's taking otherwise pretty HG comics and is catering to the 9.6/9.8 collectors by destroying them, by pressing, and suggesting their relative grading score by CGC...

 

CGC doesn't care and promotes these pressing monstrosities, and yes they are Frankenbooks, by giving these uber grades

 

Please...somebody...tell me how this is good for the hobby?

 

And please spare me with the "we don't care care about pressing argument" because evidently enough collectors have to make PCS a dead enterprise for the selected dealers...

 

Jim

 

Jim,

Please don't confuse people being upset with CGC,an independent grading company,for opening up a pressing service with people being down on pressing.

I,for one,have not come to the conclusion that collectors pressing their own books is that bad a thing.I'll give you a hypothetical. I have a pretty HG run of Captain Americas,from TOS 58- to Cap 200.Except for Cap 100 and 112,I'd say they are all a minimum 9.0,most much higher.

I can buy a nice #112 for $25,but a real nice one is $100.Rather than give a dealer the extra $75,perhaps I'll save $50 and have the faults pressed out.Now I have the book I want,and money to buy more books.

As long as I keep the books and am happy,whats the harm?

What I do have the problem with is dealers pressing books soley to make more money by selling them without disclosing the fact they've been pressed.

I never have had a book pressed,but its something I may consider for some keepers in my collection.a perfect example is a Spidey 100 tat I've shown a bunch of forumites. Inside a mylar,it appears to be a 9.6,but when removed you can see a moisture ripple. Bugs me everytime I see the book.$25 would be a small price for some peace of mind.

 

Me in your same scenario would upgrade to solve the problem. But, if you want to do it for your collection, I cant complain. The real question will be, when its time to sell, whether you disclose what you had done. If you did so, thats all any of us anti-pressers would ask of you.

[awe4one]

Please don't confuse people being upset with CGC,an independent grading company,for opening up a pressing service with people being down on pressing.

I,for one,have not come to the conclusion that collectors pressing their own books is that bad a thing.I'll give you a hypothetical. I have a pretty HG run of Captain Americas,from TOS 58- to Cap 200.Except for Cap 100 and 112,I'd say they are all a minimum 9.0,most much higher.

I can buy a nice #112 for $25,but a real nice one is $100.Rather than give a dealer the extra $75,perhaps I'll save $50 and have the faults pressed out.Now I have the book I want,and money to buy more books.

As long as I keep the books and am happy,whats the harm?

What I do have the problem with is dealers pressing books soley to make more money by selling them without disclosing the fact they've been pressed.

I never have had a book pressed,but its something I may consider for some keepers in my collection.a perfect example is a Spidey 100 tat I've shown a bunch of forumites. Inside a mylar,it appears to be a 9.6,but when removed you can see a moisture ripple. Bugs me everytime I see the book.$25 would be a small price for some peace of mind.

 

They're your comics to do with as you please. I have no problem with that. That's between you and your collection. I don't like pressing but you have every right to do any resto you want to the comics. Hell, regloss the cover while you're at it.

 

If you were selling though, it would effect others and would hope the work was disclosed...

 

Jim

[Aman619]

is there an echo in here? : )

or were we typing at the same time?

[awe4one]

is there an echo in here? : )

or were we typing at the same time?

 

That's what happens when you get a snack in the middle of a reply...

 

Jim

[shadroch]

To reiterate,my problem is with non-disclosed pressing for profit.

IF I were to get a few books pressed,and IF I later sold them,I would disclose them,unless the pendulam swings so far that pressing becomes a commonly accepted practice,with no need for disclosure.

[Aman619]

let us pray....!