hello to all......i kneel before thee.

[hammer-migration]

Yes! The more you spend on submissions, the more favorable their findings of grade on your books going your way. What were to be 8.5s will be 9.4s, etc.

[hammer-migration]

Donut, Look carefully in the background of the Omega Men 8. Charlie Brown (Peanuts) is one of the "aliens" in attendance!!!! No kidding!

[dam60]

God willing, I would love to be able to keep and treasure the Run as long as I am alive. If my family has no interest in comics, I would have no issues if they are sold as part of my estate.

 

Welcome to the boards,

 

DAM

[murph0]

To those of you who think it's a new trend that only popped up with CGC, high grade collectors have ALWAYS been around. We've been buying only NM and better for years prior to CGC. Given there'll be some people who jump into the hobby now and want only the NM's but that's IMO the exception and not the rule.

 

Brian

[Ariamus]

would any of you ever consider cgc'ing an entire series youve spent ages collecting (after reading them all of course)

 

I would never consider doing such a thing with anything more than a 12 issue limited series. I don't think it's practical to slab hundreds of issues of any one title. In fact, I think it's pretty dumb. Even titles such as Amazing Spider-man, which was top quality for 30 years had the dreadful run of [!@#%^&^] following the departure of Todd McFarlane all the way to the final issue of Volume 1. That's over 100 issues of complete drech and I could never see myself paying to have them slabbed. Not only are they virtually worthless, they stink. Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that moneytary value is the only reason to have a book slabbed. Goodness knows that the Walter Simonson run of Thor that I'm putting together is worth very little and will definitely cost me more to complete than it's worth. However, at least with these, the stories are high quality, as is the artwork (for Simonson fans) and the under 50 issues run is a manageable number.

 

The most I will do with regards to CGC runs will be to get manageable runs of titles that I enjoyed immensely. As I've said, I'm working on Simonson Thor. I'll follow that with Frank Miller's first run on Daredevil. After that, I'll probably do a John Byrne run of Alpha Flight. I also envision a complete run of JMS Amazing Spider-man. Other than such runs, the only other CGC runs I would be interested in putting together in slabbed books would be the ultra-expensive early issues of the titles I collect, such as the first 50 issues of ASM and the like. However, I doubt if I'll ever be able to afford such an endeavor.

[hammer-migration]

There were NO high grade issues prior to CGC. How could there be, Murph? Of all who have ever made an attempt to grade a book, pathetic at best, only CGC graders can recognize a high grade from a reading copy. The person I feel the most sympathy for is Dave Anderson. Can you imagine that poor, poor man sitting and suffering with all those unslabbed Mile High "junk" copies like Action 1-10, etc.?

[COI]

There were NO high grade issues prior to CGC. How could there be, Murph? Of all who have ever made an attempt to grade a book, pathetic at best, only CGC graders can recognize a high grade from a reading copy. The person I feel the most sympathy for is Dave Anderson. Can you imagine that poor, poor man sitting and suffering with all those unslabbed Mile High "junk" copies like Action 1-10, etc.?

 

Now I know why you call yourself Hammer......

 

[PovertyRow]

hello to everyone, im the newbie today so i guess i should introduce myself. im sal and im a comicaholic. anyways, ive been watching these boards for a while now and thought id join in the fun if i could. i actually have a question to pose to you all as my first official post. i know that many of you are trying to complete entire runs of your favorite series. my question is, once youve finished your respective collections, do you plan on selling them or keeping them for future generations to enjoy. thanx.

 

When I finish I shall retain them and continue to another genre! (kind of doing that now but man the price of Subby, Cap, etc GA is scary)

 

PS - whose the dillweed who gave this new one a single star? Sheesh!

 

(edit) Cast a 5 to bring to a 3. All the posts so far have been most gentle. Sheesh and sheesh again. one star? PAH

[Mushroom]

"the hunt has changed from finding the book to finding the best"

 

The best according to CGC, or the best in existance? These are two very different realities. I love the books in the census that there has been one submission on (because the book is basically worthless and nobody except one insufficiently_thoughtful_person though to submit one). Now, others will look at that and say, when it appears on Ebay wth the seller stating, "BEST CGC EXAMPLE", and think to themselves, "Oh my God...the BEST...I HAVE to HAVE that!!!!!" Meanwhile, it's an Omega Man 8 in NM- and everybody's feigning over "the Best". Could you imagine how many Omega Man 8s are sitting unsold in boxes that won't be submitted to CGC because to do so is stupidity personified that BLOW AWAY the CGC BEST copy graded 9.2??? Who the hell makes submissions like this? Mongoloids? And others go ga-ga over it. Like I said, the best copy that CGC has graded is often different from REALITY.

 

Hammer it also works conversely where somebody won't buy a GA or rare SA book at 7.5 on the basis that 7.5's aren't regarded as HG. Yet for that particular book there may be no better copy in existense.

[Foolkiller]

ariamus:

 

When I saw the manner in which you collect and what you specifically are targetting, I just wanted to know why you're interested in the slabbed versions of what you named to be some of the more notable, and best, stuff around for reading and enjoying. Although I'm not opposed to CGC at all as a tool, I'm curious as to why owning slabbed versions is important to you. The Simonson Thor run is so much fun (and no doubt, you have copies you read) I wonder why you've also decided to go with CGC copies or get your current ones slabbed? I remember buying the entire run for about $15 putting it together with vf/nm copies and better when two stores closed and put everything in the 25 and 50 cent bins...

 

Anyway, best of luck to you in completing those runs, those are great books, but I love breaking those books out every so often and reading them. The books I end up slabbing or wanting slabbed copies of are older books, worth a lot of money, that I wouldn't take out of the mylar anyway for fear of damaging.

 

I think the only books that are going to be very expensive in that run is the Miller Daredevil stuff... but if you're not obsessed with 9.4, Bob has a 9.2 DD 158 for $100... which isn't that astronomical.

 

By the way, Byrne Alpha Flight? You're only the second person I know who ever said they wanted slabbed alpha flights.

[sborock]

Yes! The more you spend on submissions, the more favorable their findings of grade on your books going your way. What were to be 8.5s will be 9.4s, etc.

 

As usual, "Hammer" is lying.

 

Justiceleaguefiend, welcome to the boards!

[justiceleaguer]

hi again to all, and thanx for all the replies and hellos. i noticed i now have three stars beside my name.....to be totally honest, i still dont know what they mean or why theyre there. would someone mind letting me know how i obtain them or lose them in either my post rating or personal rating. thx

[OldGuy]

hi again to all, and thanx for all the replies and hellos. i noticed i now have three stars beside my name.....to be totally honest, i still dont know what they mean or why theyre there. would someone mind letting me know how i obtain them or lose them in either my post rating or personal rating. thx

 

They mean nothing and you have no control over how many you have until you start creating shill accounts.

[Foolkiller]

Steve:

 

I'm surprised you even bothered responding to this... Hammer rolls out the same idea in every post (especially lately) about his dislike/conspiracy theory about CGC. The way he phrases things makes me laugh a little sometimes, but I don't think many people actually take it all that seriously...

[jbud73]

When your done? Maybe the Curator (what was his name anyway) maybe he could be done had he kept his collection. I just don't envision being done. You will always find something else to like. Just finished swamp thing, now its on to Wein - Wrightson Swamp thing Personally they are gonna bury me with my collection, like some unknowledgable relative is gonna get it bah no way.

 

An interesting point brought up by my fellow poster from the 'Peg. Ive kinda gotten into that mode of needing to complete to read, or liking to have em all and read the entire story at once, or in large clumps. Its killing me with the O'Neil - Adams run of Bats im about 50% of the way there. I know what smokers feel like who are trying to quit, I can see them in my on-going box, I.E. the stuff I'm currently buying back issues of. I just want to read a few of them, but I hold off cause I know that I love understanding continuity. Then you see a good deal on some thng else that you are back issuing, or wanted to start IE a Wein- Wrightson Swamp Thing and then you pull the trigger, but it takes away from $$ you could have used for Mid-200 Batman. aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhh. Its a viscious cycle ..... sorry, I'm late for therapy.

[GudEnuff2Read-migration]

Hey Justiceleaguefiend!

 

We have the same "birthday".

 

Welcome!

[hammer-migration]

Of COURSE Hammer is lying. That's why whenever Heritage employees win auctions on their own books (only legal in the state of Texas), and re-submit them to CGC (their own grading service, owned by the same folks that own Heritage), they suddenly get drastically bumped up in grade:

 

Marvel Mystery 2: 7.5 to 9.0

Marvel Mystery 33: 8.0 to 9.2 (with disappearing writing on the cover)

Marvel Mystery 5: Purple top 5.0 to BLUE top 5.5 AND now minus a spine roll!!!

and MANY others. These paradoxes of grading have been thoroughly discussed on this forum and well documented, BUT...don't take MY word for it. Hammer is a liar according to SB (his standard blanket answer whenever what I'm saying makes perfect sense with FACTS) and I'm lying about ALL of these Nic Cage books also, that Nic got so royally shafted on when he BOUGHT them, AND when he consigned them to Heritage/CGC. If I were Nic, seeing all of my books "from the Nic Cage collection" coming back owned by Heritage employees with HIGHER CGC grades on them as when he consigned his collection, and others, coming back as UNRESTORED that were auctioned as RESTORED for pennies on the dollar, now of course with the designation "Nic Cage collection" nowhere to be found on the label, I'd be on CGCs doorstep with a 10 gauge magnum street sweeper after I'd been so blatantly raped as he was on the disposition of his collection. He'd have done better auctioning them UNSLABBED on Ebay, and EVERYONE, whether they want to admit or not, knows that. The subject was discussed AT LENGTH on here, and sadly, was swept under the carpet with all the other dirt, as it usually is. The truth sometime hurts, but if you want to discourage it, don't have open forums and don't encourage free-thinking based on OBSERVATION. Just send out the Private emails, "you're a bad man..keep thinking bad thoughts about CGC and we'll wish you into the cornfield" and prohibit rational analysis of the facts as presented.

[jbud73]

Um, I don't know enough about the subject to agree, or disagree with Hammer's post above, concerning the Nic Cage books etc. I did wonder why he sold off his collection when I heard, I mean I'm sure only Nic knows for sure, but it just struck me as weird when i heard it.

 

Hammer's post did get me to thinking though, for which I thank him. It should occur to anyone that, at the bare minimum, a conflict of interest situation exists within the CGC/Heritage situation. Even within the CGC situation alone, you need the expertise, but assuming that individuals divulge themselves of bias once they assume grading responsibilities is a little naive I think. For the record, I support the service as a concept, as a creation, and as a functioning body. However, where there is money involved and the potential for money to be made involved, then if you examine the structure of CGC closely enough and are objective to any degrgee you realize that its structure affords certain individuals the opportunity to profit based on their own decision making abilities. This is not new, or particular to CGC, but it is apparent nevertheless.

 

On to what people do not think enough about, solutions. Does there need to be a regulatory body to oversee CGC to ensure a measure of accountability and transparency? Is this feasible?

 

For my part I'm not sure it is feasible at the moment, though I'm not sure that the idea should necessarily be disguarded, as it may one day be the case.

 

A more interesting idea is that of competition and I think herein lies the potential for greater transparency and accountability to the public, IE us the collectors. I think that a true measure of a company cannot be acertained when a monopoly exists. And currently CGC has a monopoly. There needs to be a serious competitor with capital and organization to push CGC and estblish a true grading marketplace.

I'm sure there will be further ideas on this issue.

 

 

[Foolkiller]

I don't know why nic cage sold off his books either... but I thought it had something to do with him wanting to divest himself of material possessions... he's kind of a strange duck, so when I heard this, it didn't really surprise me. But again, I don't even know if that's true.

 

As for a regulatory body to oversee CGC I don't think it's 1) necessary or 2) possible. Yes, right now CGC is a de facto monopoly because there aren't any other competitors in the game right now. However, I agree that because of the structure of CGC it is entirely possible for some of the individuals to take advantage of their position and give favorable grades to some and not to others... and to maximize the profit of certain dealers, or in this case Heritage.

 

However, this presumes that the people in place not only are biased but are without character. It is not just bias that the grader would have to have, but knowledge as well. Knowledge of the source of the book, and hence then a bias when he grades the book. I can't agree that this is a practice which occurs. I've said repeatedly here that the people at CGC are taking advantage of their knowledge in order to make more money. Of course, not knowing them very well, I can't say for sure. I'm not there. But from I do know of the people I've met who grade at CGC they are people of character and I trust what they say when they make a representation about how they operate. Now, I'm sure there are those who disagree (like Hammer), but until I am given a concrete example, not one where an inference has to be made, I will continue to believe and support the character of the individuals who run and grade at CGC. Perhaps this is, as you say, naive of me to believe. I have no reason though, to believe otherwise.

 

I do have a problem with Heritage in that it allows its employees to bid directly on books in their auctions. Bob Storms already laid out in Comic Book Marketplace (and there was a heritage response) why it is wrong for them to allow such a practice to take place. The problem here is a policy that heritage continues to allow in existence whereby you create a situation where shill bidding and other negative, and in my opinion unethical, practices are allowed. This has nothing to do with individuals, so much as a direction that Heritage as a company allows to go on.

 

What regulatory body could be created to oversee a private corporation? Unless the corporation or a part of it is engaged in illegal or unfair practices, the federal government would have no reason to ever look in on this situation. As for an independent body, what corporation would ever accede to some created oversight body that there is no precedent or reason to establish?

 

Competition would be good for CGC because it would benefit consumers with a presumably improved, possibly lower cost product. Generally, competition improves the marketplace, and of course, if done properly, I think it would be a good thing for all concerned (dealers, consumers, and even CGC) if there was another competent competitor.

[justiceleaguer]

would somebody please explain what a "shill" account is?