Platinum Comics are not Comic Books

[gifflefunk]

Platinum Age books are comic "books", even I can't argue with that... what they most definitely are not are comic magazines (the true name of comics sold at newsstands).

 

To quote myself:

 

When most people talk about comic books they are actually talking about comic magazines. The magazine format has grown into the general term "comic book" over the last 60 years. Sure there were newspaper sections, tabloids, digests, and books, that contain a sequential series of cartoon panels that tell a story and are all "comic books" if the term is taken in a generic fashion. But the modern comic book (a.k.a. standard format comic book, a.k.a. American comic book) is the comic magazine.

 

The following paragraph comes from the "Fawcett Companion", TwoMorrows 2001, p16, which cites an article entitled "Comics Is A Funny Business" by Fawcett Comics Executive Editor Will Lieberson published in the "Writer's Digest", Vol. XXVI, #2, 1946:

 

The first comic magazine, in its present form, to appear on the newsstand was Famous Funnies, in 1933. [sic: 1934]. Its contents were reprints of the Sunday newspaper supplements. Not until 1935 did comic magazines containing original story and art work make an appearance. Fun was the first one of these published. Use of original material nevertheless did not catch on strongly until the advent, shortly before the war, of the costumed alter-ego character such as Captain Marvel, Bulletman, Doc Savage, Superman, Batman, and a host of others. These captured the fancy of an unbelievably large audience, and the field skyrocketed into a bonanza which was curtailed only by the paper shortage.

 

While comic newspaper sections, digests, tabloids, books, and various other formats had been tried over the years, it wasn't until Harry Wildenberg, of Eastern Color fame, struck upon the idea of quartering newspaper pages down to a convenient book size. For purposes of this timeline a comicbook (one word) is defined as a newspaper sized page folded in halves then in quarters, or a tabloid size page folded in half. This is the major defining criteria for the comic magazine (i.e. comicbook).

[mica]

[aardvark88]

Did he finally come out with that??? I was beginning to think it was a myth.

 

Dan Fogel's UG Price Guide can be bought from NeatStuff on eBay at the discounted price of $20. Original retail $29.95 for the regular edition with the porno cover.

[agro23]

kinda' stunned how they kept insisting something so FEW people collect (folks NOBODY collects these) was really the first comics...

I collect Platinum comics. Guess I'm few or nobody.

 

However, I agree they shouldn't be in Overstreet, but not because they aren't comics or so few people collect them. I would simply rather people continue to believe that these platinum books are NOT rare, collectible and valuable.

[Comicdey]

No one is saying they are not rare, collectible or valuable. Just that it's hard to stick them in a mylar sleeve.

[agro23]

No one is saying they are not rare, collectible or valuable. Just that it's hard to stick them in a mylar sleeve.

Use the magazine size.

[action1kid]

Detective Comics #1 is so often thought of as a goldenage book that it can be easy to overlook that it is technically a pre golden age book.

15 months before Action comics #1.

[action1kid]

Ive always considered Funnies on Parade to be the 1st comicbook[in the format you suggest] followed by a Carnival of Comics and Century of comics.

 

1st Coimic book ever sold[ Famous Funnies Series 1] sold in chain stores 1934

 

1st Comicbook ever sold on a newstand [Famous Funnies #1]

 

All in the format known as the modern comicbook 1933 to today

[Comicdey]

No one is saying they are not rare, collectible or valuable. Just that it's hard to stick them in a mylar sleeve.

Use the magazine size.

 

Many of these cartoon books are too thick for putting them in a mylar, magazine size or not

[agro23]

No one is saying they are not rare, collectible or valuable. Just that it's hard to stick them in a mylar sleeve.

Use the magazine size.

 

Many of these cartoon books are too thick for putting them in a mylar, magazine size or not

And odd-sized too. I called several bag companies trying to find some sort of protective mylar for my two copies of the Famous Comics set (with box) only to be told "Good luck!" Forget about grading them...

[jbcomicbox]

"kinda' stunned how they kept insisting something so FEW people collect (folks NOBODY collects these) was really the first comics"

 

This one stuns me. I didn't realize our criteria for exploring the origins of comic books, the comics medium, and history in general should end when it's not collected by enough people.

 

I have a golden age comic or two but I find these "precursors" collectible and, most importantly, a part of history. Perhaps the reason they are not widely collected is because there is so little knowledge about them and so little availability. ( I LOOK for "The Funnies" and never see them....)

 

Anyway "Before New Fun" there was:

 

Ace King....

 

...and the alleged inspiration for New Fun was "Comic Cuts".....

 

....which is derived from its English counterpart.....

 

....but there are, going back the oil company give-aways, which until this year it was thought that Gulf was first......

 

 

but it would not be so that Gulf was first but rather Standard Oil with this only known "precursor" copy from 1932/33

 

....but then there was "The Funnies" which were SOLD and were a product of Eastern Color Press and Delacourt..(the logo look like any 'comicbook' logo that Dell put out???

 

 

May not be your cup of tea, but it is HISTORY........gotta love the history......

 

jon

[Scrooge]

Ace King....

 

Very interesting book Jon. Do you have any more background on it. It's drawn by a recognizable a comic mainstay artist but when was it put out and by whom? Was it a one shot and does it contain only the Ace King story?

[Thegoldenage]

Action 1 is the first costumed superhero comic book.

 

I agree with you that most of this stuff doesn't belong in Overstreet. Neither do Big Little Books, but this is only my opinion.

[Thegoldenage]

At some point Overstreet would have to put in even Sunday newspaper funnies based on whatever criteria they are using for Victorian.

 

Please don't give Bob any more ideas. The guide is heavy enough as it is now.

[Aman619]

cave paintings, boys. get ready for cave paintings!

[Theagenes]

cave paintings, boys. get ready for cave paintings!

 

Well, that would be going a bit too far since cave paintings aren't really sequential. Now Egyptian heiroglyphs on the other hand....

 

 

 

[Theagenes]

I think this is an interesting discussion, because like a few of you I am also fascinated by the early history and development of the comic book. As for the inclusion of some of the earliest items like the Victorian age stuff and totally different formats like BLBs I can see how many people would find that unnecessary. I personally found these listings to be very interesting when they first appeared, but not so much anymore unless new listings are added. Maybe they could just be included every couple of years instead of annually.

 

The later Platinum age stuff I do think should be included, as here you are getting into a gray area with comic book prototypes and books that some people would consider comic books and others wouldn't, etc. Better to be more inclusive on this period IMO. Likewise with the promotional comics - here I want to see more listings, not fewer.

 

As for the criteria necessary to be considered a comic book, that is probably debatable. To say that a book has to have been "sold" to the public should probably be changed to "sold or distributed" otherwise you would eliminate all the promotional comics going up the present, many of which are in every way true comicbooks.

 

Should it have to contain original material instead of strip reprints? If so then we would need to remove the Frazetta Famous Funnies issues from the GA Cover contest since they aren't true comics.

 

Size is tricky too - if you eliminate tabloid size books then that disqualifies the early issues of New/More Fun and Jumbo. If on the other hand you do include tabloid size comics then you can make good case for the first issue of the original 1929 The Funnies as the first comic book instead of Funnies on Parade.

 

Speaking of The Funnies I am very interested in this series and would love to own a copy, but as jon said, you never see them for sale. Jon, thanks for posting those images - very cool!

[jbcomicbox]

Ace King....

 

Very interesting book Jon. Do you have any more background on it. It's drawn by a recognizable a comic mainstay artist but when was it put out and by whom? Was it a one shot and does it contain only the Ace King story?

 

Background on this book and the other two is presented at pages 404 and 405 of the Overstreet Guide (thank you Bob B., Arnold B. and Overstreet) along with the other "comics" that I have presented. (By the way, the Funnies still did not succeed when it cut its price from 10 to 5 cents. Key here is "sold". Yes for money, not given away. On the newsstand in 1929 and 1930) Ace King and Bob Scully and Detective Dan are from 1933 with original material. I have had my Ace King for about 8 years, and have not seen other copies. Oversized- like Jumbo 9- this is a 25 page story with additional mystery puzzles...For the "comicbook purists"----it has staples

 

Humor Publishing Company was obviously ahead of the curve. If any one has the other two books I would be most happy to take them off your hands

 

Note that for The Funnies I have 16 out of 36...never seen them.....Oh you want rare....how about the British "Wags".....I hear it now.....who cares, "It is not a 'comicbook'?"....Would you care if you knew that in 1937 a guy named Will Eisner along with Busy Arnold packaged features for them- features that would be REPRINTED in the early issues of Jumbo Comics.....I have one copy...great historical stuff....(Got it with the letter that Arnold sent to Vern Henkel enclosing a copy of Wags with a feature he had drawn for it)

 

I have zero agenda here....just passing on "knowledge". For those interested in the 'English connection", I totally recommend The International Book of Comics by Denis Gifford

 

Jon

 

P.S. Those who have followed my writings for CBM and elsewhere will note that I refer to "comic books" as one word- "comicbook". I think it more accurately describes a generic publishing/ art and story concept than funny books. But that is my "hang-up". (No I do not think that Wags, Funnies or the giveways are "comicbooks", but they are unquestionably their direct precursors

[gifflefunk]

If I determined the critieria I think I would go with the following as the major defining characteristics:

 

1) Contains a series of cartoon panels in a sequence to tell a story.

2) Periodicals that are "entered as second-class matter"

 

This basically covers everything sold at newsstands that have a cover price... so tabloids, digests, newsspaper insert sections (such as the Spirit), treasury-size, pocket-size, and the standard format (and any other oddball formats that meet 1 and 2 above).

 

And I would have the following exception:

 

3) Promotional comics that are of the same format (tabloid, digets, etc.)

 

 

I would not include the books that contain cartoon strips. To my way of thinking these are not comic magazines (aka comicbooks) they are books that contain comic strips... Foxy Grandpa, Buster Brown, etc. are not much different than the Bloom County books I have sitting on my shelf:

 

 

The books containing strip material may have preceeded the comic magazine, but the true children of the so-called Platinum Age "books" can still be found in bookstores to this day... they are trade paperbacks of strip material... still sold as books in bookstores. These are not comic magazines (aka comicbooks).

 

Side bar: Why Overstreet keeps including old strip reprint books but doesn't include such books published during and after the Golden Age puzzles me... I guess they don't know that the book format never died out???

 

 

As for the criteria necessary to be considered a comic book, that is probably debatable. To say that a book has to have been "sold" to the public should probably be changed to "sold or distributed" otherwise you would eliminate all the promotional comics going up the present, many of which are in every way true comicbooks.

[jbcomicbox]

If I determined the critieria I think I would go with the following as the major defining characteristics:

 

1) Contains a series of cartoon panels in a sequence to tell a story.

2) Periodicals that are "entered as second-class matter"

 

This basically covers everything sold at newsstands that have a cover price... so tabloids, digests, newsspaper insert sections (such as the Spirit), treasury-size, pocket-size, and the standard format (and any other oddball formats that meet 1 and 2 above).

 

And I would have the following exception:

 

3) Promotional comics that are of the same format (tabloid, digets, etc.)

 

 

I would not include the books that contain cartoon strips. To my way of thinking these are not comic magazines (aka comicbooks) they are books that contain comic strips... Foxy Grandpa, Buster Brown, etc. are not much different than the Bloom County books I have sitting on my shelf:

 

 

 

The books containing strip material may have preceeded the comic magazine, but the true children of the so-called Platinum Age "books" can still be found in bookstores to this day... they are trade paperbacks of strip material... still sold as books in bookstores. These are not comic magazines (aka comicbooks).

 

 

 

 

As for the criteria necessary to be considered a comic book, that is probably debatable. To say that a book has to have been "sold" to the public should probably be changed to "sold or distributed" otherwise you would eliminate all the promotional comics going up the present, many of which are in every way true comicbooks.

 

So by your criteria are " The Funnies" which were SOLD on the newsstand in 1929 and 1930 AND had ORIGINAL material "comicbooks" (note the "VEP" artist on many of the Funny covers is the same VEP that did covers and features for Famous funnies

 

Are the Gulf and Standard Oil which were giveaways with ORIGINAL materal "comicbooks"?