Oh the Hypocrisy, So Bad I Have to Laugh

[esquirecomics]

This week's Scoop continued its trend of publishing opinions regarding restoration. Today's issue contained quite a few dealer comments. Most notably from dealers who have admitted they press and sell books, so their opinions are not hard to discern. Can't say I read anything that was persuasive. The same old arguments and confusion surrounding the distinct issues.

 

Even More Responses to “Making The Grade”

 

But what I really found amusing was the comments offered by our fellow forumite: Steve Lauterbach of Investment Collectibles. Steve wrote:

 

Now I also understand there are some individuals who have voiced their strong opinions that pressing should be considered restoration. Who are they in the scheme of things you should ask yourselves and what are their facts. What is their agenda? Do they really care about the overall health of the market or is it all sour grapes or self promotion?

 

The hypocrisy floors me! I really had to laugh. Anyone who knows Steve's history, and I have bought from him personally (remember my More Fun #52 that changed grades, yep), would laugh too. His comments are worthy of a DC politician. When you can't support your own case, deflect and attack the opponents.

 

Agenda? Steve (and I have e-mailed him separately but I can't let this waste away in a private conversation), please do tell me my agenda here. Tell us all who fits within your two groups: those who really care about the overall health of the market and the others who just want to express sour graps or self-promote. I'lll tell you which group I think you fall in and why, and you can respectfully do the same.

 

I love it. Gag.

[Forbush-Man]

But what I really found amusing was the comments offered by our fellow forumite: Steve Lauterbach of Investment Collectibles. Steve wrote:

 

Who are they in the scheme of things you should ask yourselves and what are their facts. What is their agenda? Do they really care about the overall health of the market or is it all sour grapes or self promotion?

 

 

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

'Health of the market'?

 

Health of Steve's bank balance, more like.

 

It will remain a constant source of disgust to me that when all the suspect dealers (sorry...ALL dealers) talk of 'healthy market', what they mean is 'our continued ability to scam the sh!te out of you '.

[Forbush-Man]

'Health of the market'?

 

Health of Steve's bank balance, more like.

 

It will remain a constant source of disgust to me that when all the suspect dealers (sorry...ALL dealers) talk of 'healthy market', what they mean is 'our continued ability to scam the sh!te out of you '.

 

 

So true! Perhaps we should start a list of Dealers who are "Pro-Pressing".

[Scheradon]

This week's Scoop continued its trend of publishing opinions regarding restoration. Today's issue contained quite a few dealer comments. Most notably from dealers who have admitted they press and sell books, so their opinions are not hard to discern. Can't say I read anything that was persuasive. The same old arguments and confusion surrounding the distinct issues.

 

Even More Responses to “Making The Grade”

 

But what I really found amusing was the comments offered by our fellow forumite: Steve Lauterbach of Investment Collectibles. Steve wrote:

 

Now I also understand there are some individuals who have voiced their strong opinions that pressing should be considered restoration. Who are they in the scheme of things you should ask yourselves and what are their facts. What is their agenda? Do they really care about the overall health of the market or is it all sour grapes or self promotion?

 

The hypocrisy floors me! I really had to laugh. Anyone who knows Steve's history, and I have bought from him personally (remember my More Fun #52 that changed grades, yep), would laugh too. His comments are worthy of a DC politician. When you can't support your own case, deflect and attack the opponents.

 

Agenda? Steve (and I have e-mailed him separately but I can't let this waste away in a private conversation), please do tell me my agenda here. Tell us all who fits within your two groups: those who really care about the overall health of the market and the others who just want to express sour graps or self-promote. I'lll tell you which group I think you fall in and why, and you can respectfully do the same.

 

I love it. Gag.

 

Well, reading the "more responses" was about enough to make me loose all faith in this hobby. I liked the way Tom Brulato is listed as just "collector" as if he is just the average joe collector (no reference to our JC here btw).

 

I loved the way all the dealers clasped on to the "pressing is not restoration because it does not ADD anything to the book" line. Does anyone know who invented that definition? And furthermore, who made it the main universal strongpoint of the definition? I'm looking in my trusty Websters and find:

 

a: a bringing back to a former position or condition. c: a restoring to an unimpaired or improved condition.

 

The weak argument of "it cannot be detected, so it cannot be restoration" is irrelevant to the definition of what is restoration. Nowhere does any definition I've ever read disclude it if it cannot be visibly seen. It is simply the act or restoring an item to an improved condition over it's previous unrestored state.

[Scheradon]

I would like to commend Tracey Heft for getting it right in the most professional and thorough response

[Forbush-Man]

I would like to commend Tracey Heft for getting it right in the most professional and thorough response

 

 

How would you define "Restoration" in comics?

Restoration, whether it be in comics, fine-art, coins, movie posters, vintage cars or any other form of "collectible" should be defined by the same universal standards and not be situational. No less an authority as the International Institute of Conservation (IIC) has defined restoration as "any attempt to return an object to its original form and purpose, in the attempt to recreate an earlier known state or condition". This is a definition adopted and used by museums and museum professionals all over the world. It is simple and uncomplicated. However, it continues to amaze me that people are still trying to "alter" the definition to fit their situation (i.e it is restoration if it is detectable or if such and such a treatment is done but not the treatment I use).

 

[Aman619]

boy, its so obvious, its scary. What possible reason could anyone have for NOT seeing what pressing is?

 

 

ummmmm could it be - -- SATAN!!!

[esquirecomics]

I loved the way all the dealers clasped on to the "pressing is not restoration because it does not ADD anything to the book" line. Does anyone know who invented that definition? And furthermore, who made it the main universal strongpoint of the definition? I'm looking in my trusty Websters and find:

 

a: a bringing back to a former position or condition. c: a restoring to an unimpaired or improved condition.

 

The weak argument of "it cannot be detected, so it cannot be restoration" is irrelevant to the definition of what is restoration. Nowhere does any definition I've ever read disclude it if it cannot be visibly seen. It is simply the act or restoring an item to an improved condition over it's previous unrestored state.

 

It is a nonsensical, comic-book only pressers world, definition of the term restoration that goes against the grain of every professional definition.

 

In the article I wrote I provided the definition of restoration by comic experts, restoration experts and one of the most famous dictionaries ever created:

 

(1) Overstreet Price Guide - it would include pressing.

(2) Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary - it would include pressing

(3) Society of American Archivists - it would include pressing

(4) International Institute of Conservation - it would include pressing

(5) Tracey Heft (restoration expert) - it would include pressing

(6) And despite its conclusory policy statement that pressing is not restoration, CGC's own glossary definitions say otherwise.

 

And of course, though I did not include her, noted restoration expert Susan Cicconi also believes pressing is a form of restoration.

 

I know of absolutely no definition of the term that requires something to be added. I am more than willing to be proven wrong by someone, particularly one of these dealers touting their restoration definition, but that would require production of evidence other than "well, I don't agree."

[drdonaldblake]

alot of dealers in the hobby dont give a damn about the future of the hobby

 

to them $$$$ are the bottom line

 

unfortunately thats the reality of it

[Scheradon]

I loved the way all the dealers clasped on to the "pressing is not restoration because it does not ADD anything to the book" line. Does anyone know who invented that definition? And furthermore, who made it the main universal strongpoint of the definition? I'm looking in my trusty Websters and find:

 

a: a bringing back to a former position or condition. c: a restoring to an unimpaired or improved condition.

 

The weak argument of "it cannot be detected, so it cannot be restoration" is irrelevant to the definition of what is restoration. Nowhere does any definition I've ever read disclude it if it cannot be visibly seen. It is simply the act or restoring an item to an improved condition over it's previous unrestored state.

 

It is a nonsensical, comic-book only pressers world, definition of the term restoration that goes against the grain of every professional definition.

 

In the article I wrote I provided the definition of restoration by comic experts, restoration experts and one of the most famous dictionaries ever created:

 

(1) Overstreet Price Guide - it would include pressing.

(2) Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary - it would include pressing

(3) Society of American Archivists - it would include pressing

(4) International Institute of Conservation - it would include pressing

(5) Tracey Heft (restoration expert) - it would include pressing

(6) And despite its conclusory policy statement that pressing is not restoration, CGC's own glossary definitions say otherwise.

 

And of course, though I did not include her, noted restoration expert Susan Cicconi also believes pressing is a form of restoration.

 

I know of absolutely no definition of the term that requires something to be added. I am more than willing to be proven wrong by someone, particularly one of these dealers touting their restoration definition, but that would require production of evidence other than "well, I don't agree."

 

Exactly Mark

 

I just emailed a response to Scoop outlining my thoughts on it, with parts of my first post and additional thoughts about it.

 

I wonder if they will bother to read it? Atleast I'm glad I let them know my take on it now.

[ronm3-migration]

You know if the dealers would have just kept their mouths shut about the pressing debate they would have been better off. This is an article written in their defense.

I would love to know exactly when this piece was put together as compared to when GP Analysis article was put out.

The dealers are on the defensive. I find that incredibly weak on their part.

[Scheradon]

I knew once I read:

 

Tom Brulato

Collector

 

It was going to be pretty funny

 

With him speaking on behalf of collectors and people like Doug Schmell speaking for dealers, I was left wondering who the heck was speaking for me? Thank goodness for Tracey Heft!

[joe_collector]

You know if the dealers would have just kept their mouths shut about the pressing debate they would have been better off.

 

I agree. These guys are too stupid to realize they're digging their own grave.

 

"Oh, let talk to this "random collector".. what's your name again? Tom Brule? Brulato you say? Strange name, can't say as I've ever heard it before... Now let's hear what this average collector thinks about the pressing debate, shall we?"

 

"Next up we'll talk to a pile of dealers, who as we all know, have nothing but the hobby's best interests at heart..."

[ronm3-migration]

I spoke to a guy yesterday who I was buying some books from and he told me some guy named Tom Bru-something bought like 90k worth of books from me.

I said Tom Brulato? He said yeah thats the guy. I started to laugh.

[jokersrevenge]

I love the boards with all the goings on, but I feel we are a very, very small voice in the community. Most BSD's don't care what we say or do. They are interested in the masses outside our little community....

[jbud73]

I love the boards with all the goings on, but I feel we are a very, very small voice in the community. Most BSD's don't care what we say or do. They are interested in the masses outside our little community....

 

While this may be true from the BSD perspective, I think the proliferation of information is important. More people know about pressing now than two years ago. Go read the When 9.4s become 9.6s thread, its laughable now. In my experience whenever an issue comes up that has direct implications for a system of interactions - comics would fit this definition, whenever subvertive tactics are in play they usually end up doing more harm than good. The only variable is time.

[Aman619]

yeah, Dont kid yourself. the word gets out. And dealers like to scoff at the boards, but only at its seeming ineffectiveness. I say laugh while you can... the truth will out in the end.

[jbud73]

Ok so I went and read the responses. It was like watching "The Insider" where they line up the 7 CEO's of Big Tobacco and have them state for the record that, "I believe that nicotine is non-addictive."

[Weird]

I was reading the Responses to Making The Grade - Part 1 from your link and noticed CGC's QC guy commenting. Anyone else catch that?

 

I am assuming it wasn't done in any official capacity since it just lists his residence under his name and no title. I am also assuming it is the same Ron Montuori from the Tampa Bay area. My bad if it is not him.