How About This As A Definition For Restoration Pertaining To Comic Books?

[Aman619]

I looked them up and they are having their Annual Meeting in Providence in June. Maybe we comics guys should introduce ourselves and our concerns to them...

 

AIC's 34th Annual Meeting

June 16-19, 2006

Providence, Rhode Island

[Davenport]

Here are some interesting definitions from the American Institute of Conservation:

 

==============================================

 

Conservation: The profession devoted to the preservation of cultural property for the future. Conservation activities include examination, documentation, treatment, and preventive care, supported by research and education.

 

Treatment: The deliberate alteration of the chemical and/or physical aspects of cultural property, aimed primarily at prolonging its existence. Treatment may consist of stabilization and/or restoration.

 

Stabilization: Treatment procedures intended to maintain the integrity of cultural property and to minimize deterioration.

 

Restoration: Treatment procedures intended to return cultural property to a known or assumed state, often through the addition of nonoriginal material.

 

Preventive Care (also referred to as preventive conservation): The mitigation of deterioration and damage to cultural property through the formulation and implementation of policies and procedures for the following: appropriate environmental conditions; handling and maintenance procedures for storage, exhibition, packing, transport, and use; integrated pest management; emergency preparedness and response; and reformatting/duplication.

 

Preservation: The protection of cultural property through activities that minimize chemical and physical deterioration and damage and that prevent loss of informational content. The primary goal of preservation is to prolong the existence of cultural property.

Good stuff.

Maybe it's time for a new term. Here's mine.

 

Contrived Pre-Evaluation Finagling : Clandestine manipulation of comic books for financial gain via 3rd party grade-labeling and/or purely personal aesthetic pleasures. Neither "Conservation" (preservation of comic books as cultural objects) nor "Restoration" (intended to return comic books to a known or assumed state) unless/until procedures are fully disclosed for public considerations (impact on value). The primary goal of Contrived Pre-Evaluation Finagling is marketplace chicanery.

 

[RCComix]

 

Just curious, because I asked before and did not see a response from anyone whether or not the idea of pressing as being virtually undetectable has been questioned outside the comic community. Any other "paper" experts consulted? Are we ready to concede this as FACT?

 

If it is truly undetectable with certainty or even regularity, why is it important whether or not it is considered restoration? It seems to me, you can use whatever name or definition you want, in the OPG, CGC or wherever, if you can't detect something and it is profitable and legal, it is not going to stop. So where exactly do we go from here? Aside from education aspect, what is the objective?

 

I have tried to stay up with the threads, because it seems important to the hobby, but it seems we are all going round and round, as some have already noted.

 

What am I missing?

 

Russ

[esquirecomics]

I looked them up and they are having their Annual Meeting in Providence in June. Maybe we comics guys should introduce ourselves and our concerns to them...

 

AIC's 34th Annual Meeting

June 16-19, 2006

Providence, Rhode Island

 

I'll reach out to them.

[esquirecomics]

 

Just curious, because I asked before and did not see a response from anyone whether or not the idea of pressing as being virtually undetectable has been questioned outside the comic community. Any other "paper" experts consulted? Are we ready to concede this as FACT?

 

It is being looked at, though the results are not in. But there are some promising possibilities.

[FFB]

Restoration: Treatment procedures intended to return cultural property to a known or assumed state, often through the addition of nonoriginal material.

 

this piece is a good benchmark for the discussions we have about whether a restored item had to have had something added in the process.

By inserting OFTEN in the sentence, they are stating that the addition of materials is NOT a defining characteristic of restoration. Restoration can occur, therefore, WITHOUT anything added to a comic book, according to the American Institute of Conservation.

 

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to pick up on that. Kind of a good way to address the "pressing isn't restoration because nothing is added to the book" argument, isn't it? I mean hell, if one of the world's foremost organizations of professional conservators (with the largest specialty thereof being the Book and Paper Group) says that restoration need not necessarily include the introduction of foreign material, then who are we mere comic collectors to say different?

[FFB]

Here are some interesting definitions from the American Institute of Conservation:

 

==============================================

 

Conservation: The profession devoted to the preservation of cultural property for the future. Conservation activities include examination, documentation, treatment, and preventive care, supported by research and education.

 

Treatment: The deliberate alteration of the chemical and/or physical aspects of cultural property, aimed primarily at prolonging its existence. Treatment may consist of stabilization and/or restoration.

 

Stabilization: Treatment procedures intended to maintain the integrity of cultural property and to minimize deterioration.

 

Restoration: Treatment procedures intended to return cultural property to a known or assumed state, often through the addition of nonoriginal material.

 

Preventive Care (also referred to as preventive conservation): The mitigation of deterioration and damage to cultural property through the formulation and implementation of policies and procedures for the following: appropriate environmental conditions; handling and maintenance procedures for storage, exhibition, packing, transport, and use; integrated pest management; emergency preparedness and response; and reformatting/duplication.

 

Preservation: The protection of cultural property through activities that minimize chemical and physical deterioration and damage and that prevent loss of informational content. The primary goal of preservation is to prolong the existence of cultural property.

Good stuff.

Maybe it's time for a new term. Here's mine.

 

Contrived Pre-Evaluation Finagling : Clandestine manipulation of comic books for financial gain via 3rd party grade-labeling and/or purely personal aesthetic pleasures. Neither "Conservation" (preservation of comic books as cultural objects) nor "Restoration" (intended to return comic books to a known or assumed state) unless/until procedures are fully disclosed for public considerations (impact on value). The primary goal of Contrived Pre-Evaluation Finagling is marketplace chicanery.

 

 

[esquirecomics]

Restoration: Treatment procedures intended to return cultural property to a known or assumed state, often through the addition of nonoriginal material.

 

this piece is a good benchmark for the discussions we have about whether a restored item had to have had something added in the process.

By inserting OFTEN in the sentence, they are stating that the addition of materials is NOT a defining characteristic of restoration. Restoration can occur, therefore, WITHOUT anything added to a comic book, according to the American Institute of Conservation.

 

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to pick up on that. Kind of a good way to address the "pressing isn't restoration because nothing is added to the book" argument, isn't it? I mean hell, if one of the world's foremost organizations of professional conservationists (with the largest specialty thereof being the Book and Paper Group) says that restoration need not necessarily include the introduction of foreign material, then who are we mere comic collectors to say different?

 

Geez, haven't I been saying that all along!!!

 

Not that I don't appreciate seeing supportive statements, especially from fellow lawyers!

[Aman619]

yeah. but now we have EXPERTS saying it!

[Aman619]

you know, I just had an idea. or a thought. (which is rare) We have been all around this issue. So lets envision what our impression would be if 60 Minutes did a segment on "Comic Book Grading and Restoration Issues" etc

 

Just how far into their investigation would they be do you think before they looked at each other and said "whoa. somethings not kosher here"? Too bad comics dont warrant any media scrutiny at all out there, cause this would make a pretty good story.

[esquirecomics]

you know, I just had an idea. or a thought. (which is rare) We have been all around this issue. So lets envision what our impression would be if 60 Minutes did a segment on "Comic Book Grading and Restoration Issues" etc

 

Just how far into their investigation would they be do you think before they looked at each other and said "whoa. somethings not kosher here"? Too bad comics dont warrant any media scrutiny at all out there, cause this would make a pretty good story.

 

Working on that too!

[Aman619]

cool

do any of them collect comics, or anything?

[esquirecomics]

cool

do any of them collect comics, or anything?

 

Always helps if they do. I've actually been contacted by quite a few journalists who knew me from legal work and then found out about the comic biz.

[shadroch]

Restoration: Treatment procedures intended to return cultural property to a known or assumed state, often through the addition of nonoriginal material.

 

this piece is a good benchmark for the discussions we have about whether a restored item had to have had something added in the process.

By inserting OFTEN in the sentence, they are stating that the addition of materials is NOT a defining characteristic of restoration. Restoration can occur, therefore, WITHOUT anything added to a comic book, according to the American Institute of Conservation.

 

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to pick up on that. Kind of a good way to address the "pressing isn't restoration because nothing is added to the book" argument, isn't it? I mean hell, if one of the world's foremost organizations of professional conservators (with the largest specialty thereof being the Book and Paper Group) says that restoration need not necessarily include the introduction of foreign material, then who are we mere comic collectors to say different?

 

I thought this was shot down by the "trimming doesn't add anything to the book,so it also isn't restoration"aurgument.

 

Has anyone asked for and recieved an answer from either of these groups about pressing comics,or are we just going on non-comic examples?I'd think that with the dollars going into comic collecting,it must be getting towards

the top of paper collectibles field.

[FFB]

Restoration: Treatment procedures intended to return cultural property to a known or assumed state, often through the addition of nonoriginal material.

 

this piece is a good benchmark for the discussions we have about whether a restored item had to have had something added in the process.

By inserting OFTEN in the sentence, they are stating that the addition of materials is NOT a defining characteristic of restoration. Restoration can occur, therefore, WITHOUT anything added to a comic book, according to the American Institute of Conservation.

 

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to pick up on that. Kind of a good way to address the "pressing isn't restoration because nothing is added to the book" argument, isn't it? I mean hell, if one of the world's foremost organizations of professional conservators (with the largest specialty thereof being the Book and Paper Group) says that restoration need not necessarily include the introduction of foreign material, then who are we mere comic collectors to say different?

 

I thought this was shot down by the "trimming doesn't add anything to the book,so it also isn't restoration"aurgument.

 

Has anyone asked for and recieved an answer from either of these groups about pressing comics,or are we just going on non-comic examples?I'd think that with the dollars going into comic collecting,it must be getting towards

the top of paper collectibles field.

 

I agree that trimming isn't restoration. Trimming is "cosmetic destruction" because you're not trying to return the item to an original or assumed state. You're just cutting away damaged areas without replacing them.

 

As I've said before, if it were up to me, I'd grade a trimmed book as unrestored with pieces missing equal to the extent of the trim. That means that no trimmed book could grade above say VG/VG+, even if it looked like a 9.8.

 

As for your question, what question do you want to ask them? Whether pressing is restoration? The answer is undoubtedly going to be yes. There may be instances where it also counts as "conservation" (like flattening of folded or rolled old documents before they get too brittle to be unfolded or unrolled without falling apart), but I have every reason to believe (and no reason to doubt) that the AIC considers it to be restoration.

[Scheradon]

I agree that trimming isn't restoration. Trimming is "cosmetic destruction" because you're not trying to return the item to an original or assumed state. You're just cutting away damaged areas without replacing them.

 

As I've said before, if it were up to me, I'd grade a trimmed book as unrestored with pieces missing equal to the extent of the trim. That means that no trimmed book could grade above say VG/VG+, even if it looked like a 9.8.

 

I've been thinking about this as well. I often think that it's because this type of act done to a book and being called "restored", that this is a huge part of the negative stigma restored books have.

 

I would maybe go with a green qualified label for trimmed books.

[FFB]

I agree that trimming isn't restoration. Trimming is "cosmetic destruction" because you're not trying to return the item to an original or assumed state. You're just cutting away damaged areas without replacing them.

 

As I've said before, if it were up to me, I'd grade a trimmed book as unrestored with pieces missing equal to the extent of the trim. That means that no trimmed book could grade above say VG/VG+, even if it looked like a 9.8.

 

I've been thinking about this as well. I often think that it's because this type of act done to a book and being called "restored", that this is a huge part of the negative stigma restored books have.

 

I would maybe go with a green qualified label for trimmed books.

 

The problem I have with the green label for trimmed books is that the book in a green label gets the higher "apparent" grade and while not as good as blue, green is considered better than purple by most people.

 

What I find appealing (if I may say so) about my proposal for grading trimmed books is that it absolutely hammers the book into oblivion on the grade, which both reflects the violence of trimming on the comic and also discourages greedy, short-sighted insufficiently_thoughtful_persons from engaging in the practice in the future. Some trimmed high grade books sell for good money even in purple label slabs, whereas the 2.5s and 3.0s don't get any kind of a premium bump.

[awe4one]

I haven't chimed in on this debate much recently because I haven't had the time to properly devote to it and, regardless, everyone knows by now my views on pressing being resto and the topic in general...

 

It is nice to see though how this topic has evolved over time and the changing of opinions from those denying or on the fence in regards to pressing equaling resto who now accept the fact. We've come a long way...

 

Jim

[FFB]

I haven't chimed in on this debate much recently because I haven't had the time to properly devote to it and, regardless, everyone knows by now my views on pressing being resto and the topic in general...

 

It is nice to see though how this topic has evolved over time and the changing of opinions from those denying or on the fence in regards to pressing equaling resto who now accept the fact. We've come a long way...

 

Jim

 

You're not referring to me here, are you? I've always said pressing is restoration.

[awe4one]

I haven't chimed in on this debate much recently because I haven't had the time to properly devote to it and, regardless, everyone knows by now my views on pressing being resto and the topic in general...

 

It is nice to see though how this topic has evolved over time and the changing of opinions from those denying or on the fence in regards to pressing equaling resto who now accept the fact. We've come a long way...

 

Jim

 

You're not referring to me here, are you? I've always said pressing is restoration.

 

No...just a general observation. You were just the last post in the thread...

 

Jim