Jerry Weist auctions up on ebay

[comix4fun]

. Makes you wonder how much interior Romita ASM pages would be if MB got out of the market.

 

 

Actually I think it is a pretty strong indication of how many people realized Mike was going to the mat for these pages and they got out of the way. Knowing that someone as fanatical as Mike is will be bidding heavily on a page is enough to keep me from bidding on something where I have moderate interest. Only those as fanatical as Mike would cross swords with him over ASM Romita Large Art. It is pretty pointless unless you are willing to outbid him...and most people won't on these page.

 

What I am getting at is, I don't know if this is an indication of overall interest or not.

 

Chris

[westform]

That price seems about right to me. I heard alotta big talk out of a few collectors, but when it comes down to it, many would rather have a Ditko page, a romita cover, or a cheaper small art size Romita page. A lot of these guys are cover collectors.... and you can't have a Ditko cover so they have some Ditko pages. But, you can have a romita cover, small or large..... actually pages are harder to find because Mike gobbles them all. But, I think many are happy to let him continue... I know I am. I didn't back off because Mike was bidding; I backed off because I have 2 Romita Spidey covers, and 3 other Romita covers with Spidey on them.... I don't appreciate the pages for the price. 11k is still real money! Dan F.

[blowout]

That price seems about right to me. I heard alotta big talk out of a few collectors, but when it comes down to it, many would rather have a Ditko page, a romita cover, or a cheaper small art size Romita page. A lot of these guys are cover collectors.... and you can't have a Ditko cover so they have some Ditko pages. But, you can have a romita cover, small or large..... actually pages are harder to find because Mike gobbles them all. But, I think many are happy to let him continue... I know I am. I didn't back off because Mike was bidding; I backed off because I have 2 Romita Spidey covers, and 3 other Romita covers with Spidey on them.... I don't appreciate the pages for the price. 11k is still real money! Dan F.

 

I agree totally. Romita ASM panel page prices are completely out of whack with the rest of the market.

Does anyone REALLY think they are worth three times as much as the equivalent Kirby FF page?

[comicartfan]

Romita ASM panel page prices are completely out of whack with the rest of the market.

 

I think the Byrne X Men stuff falls into this category also. I cringe and think to myself

" what am I missing ?! - I just don't get it ! " everytime I see a big price tag on one of these pages.

[comix4fun]

agree totally. Romita ASM panel page prices are completely out of whack with the rest of the market.

Does anyone REALLY think they are worth three times as much as the equivalent Kirby FF page?

 

It makes alot of sense when you take into account supply and demand and available pieces in the market...(setting aside that panel pages from FF #3 and #5 have sold for more than 20k)

 

Taking out annuals...there were 67 issues of FF that were large art Kirby pencils.

 

Romita only had 13 issues of ASM before the switch to small art.

 

If you do the math there are potentially 1340 large art Kirby FF pages that exist, and only 260 Large Art Romita ASM pages that exist.

 

Simply put Large Art ASM pags may be 3 times more expensive than Kirby Large Art FF, but the FF pages are 5 times more plentiful. Kirby art is still more expensive given availability than Romita ASM.

 

If you want to make the numbers equivalent...If the amount of potentially available material were equal, Kirby Large art FF would 70% more expensive per page than Romita Large Art ASM, based on the current price points and assuming your 3 times rule is accurate.

 

There is ALOT more Kirby FF Large Art that was created than Romita ASM Large Art...and relative supply has alot to do with marketplace pricing.

 

Chris

[LuckyCantor-migration]

Large Art Romita is issues #39 - #61 BTW.

 

I wonder what Mike plans on doing with all his art?

 

Imagine if he held onto the covers too!!!!

 

Hi art is 'out of play' for at least his life, I guess prices will continue to moive up on the stuff.

 

Ditko pieces and Romita interiors seem to run pretty neck and neck which is odd to me cause Ditko is the master.

[comix4fun]

Large Art Romita is issues #39 - #61 BTW.

 

 

Large Art Romita ended with issue #53 and one annual was included. So it's actually 16 issues of total large art with the annual.

 

 

Chris

[LuckyCantor-migration]

Large Art Romita is issues #39 - #61 BTW.

 

 

Large Art Romita ended with issue #53 and one annual was included. So it's actually 16 issues of total large art with the annual.

 

 

Chris

 

Chris,

 

Large Art ended with #61(12" X 19"). Perhaps you are thinking of the X-tra Large Art and than maybe I see what you are saying. However, the art on ASM didnt become 'small' in the classical sense until after issue. #61.

 

 

Here is #62 Splash,..btw

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/John-Romita-Sr-1968-...1QQcmdZViewItem

[blowout]

agree totally. Romita ASM panel page prices are completely out of whack with the rest of the market.

Does anyone REALLY think they are worth three times as much as the equivalent Kirby FF page?

 

It makes alot of sense when you take into account supply and demand and available pieces in the market...(setting aside that panel pages from FF #3 and #5 have sold for more than 20k)

 

Taking out annuals...there were 67 issues of FF that were large art Kirby pencils.

 

Romita only had 13 issues of ASM before the switch to small art.

 

If you do the math there are potentially 1340 large art Kirby FF pages that exist, and only 260 Large Art Romita ASM pages that exist.

 

Simply put Large Art ASM pags may be 3 times more expensive than Kirby Large Art FF, but the FF pages are 5 times more plentiful. Kirby art is still more expensive given availability than Romita ASM.

 

If you want to make the numbers equivalent...If the amount of potentially available material were equal, Kirby Large art FF would 70% more expensive per page than Romita Large Art ASM, based on the current price points and assuming your 3 times rule is accurate.

 

There is ALOT more Kirby FF Large Art that was created than Romita ASM Large Art...and relative supply has alot to do with marketplace pricing.

 

Chris

 

You can bandy the numbers about all day long, but everyone knows that the reason Romita's pages are priced so high is because MB is holding most of the supply. If he were to release the bulk of his holdings onto the market then we might get a better idea how much Romita ASM pages are really 'worth'.

[LuckyCantor-migration]

agree totally. Romita ASM panel page prices are completely out of whack with the rest of the market.

Does anyone REALLY think they are worth three times as much as the equivalent Kirby FF page?

 

It makes alot of sense when you take into account supply and demand and available pieces in the market...(setting aside that panel pages from FF #3 and #5 have sold for more than 20k)

 

Taking out annuals...there were 67 issues of FF that were large art Kirby pencils.

 

Romita only had 13 issues of ASM before the switch to small art.

 

If you do the math there are potentially 1340 large art Kirby FF pages that exist, and only 260 Large Art Romita ASM pages that exist.

 

Simply put Large Art ASM pags may be 3 times more expensive than Kirby Large Art FF, but the FF pages are 5 times more plentiful. Kirby art is still more expensive given availability than Romita ASM.

 

If you want to make the numbers equivalent...If the amount of potentially available material were equal, Kirby Large art FF would 70% more expensive per page than Romita Large Art ASM, based on the current price points and assuming your 3 times rule is accurate.

 

There is ALOT more Kirby FF Large Art that was created than Romita ASM Large Art...and relative supply has alot to do with marketplace pricing.

 

Chris

 

You can bandy the numbers about all day long, but everyone knows that the reason Romita's pages are priced so high is because MB is holding most of the supply. If he were to release the bulk of his holdings onto the market then we might get a better idea how much Romita ASM pages are really 'worth'.

 

But the reality is that Mike DOES own all this interior art. I have spoken with Mike and he is NEVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER selling them. I agree he has totally whacked out the S&D curves for ASM Romita interiors but if you want5 one you have to bid BIG $$$ (this is a fact). I have spoken with Mike and he values his interiors at 20K each therebaouts so if you want one you need to bid higher than this to even have a shot. Considering that Snoopy gets that, thereabouts, I do think the prices on Romita interior will only go up. Sadly, Mike will probably be bidding 50K or so for them by than. He seems intent on owning every last page out there from issues #39 - #61. Kinda sux because I would like to have a crack at them but at those prices Id rather have a cover. Heck, where will the covers go, as they REALLY have 'naturally' good S&D curves.

[blowout]

 

But the reality is that Mike DOES own all this interior art. I have spoken with Mike and he is NEVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER selling them. I agree he has totally whacked out the S&D curves for ASM Romita interiors but if you want5 one you have to bid BIG $$$ (this is a fact). I have spoken with Mike and he values his interiors at 20K each therebaouts so if you want one you need to bid higher than this to even have a shot. Considering that Snoopy gets that, thereabouts, I do think the prices on Romita interior will only go up. Sadly, Mike will probably be bidding 50K or so for them by than. He seems intent on owning every last page out there from issues #39 - #61. Kinda sux because I would like to have a crack at them but at those prices Id rather have a cover.

 

I agree totally. But rather than pay $20K+ for a page collectors are more likely just to move onto to something with a more realistic price tag.

Isn't there a danger of Mike actually killing the market he is trying to control?

[heartened]

 

But the reality is that Mike DOES own all this interior art. I have spoken with Mike and he is NEVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER selling them. I agree he has totally whacked out the S&D curves for ASM Romita interiors but if you want5 one you have to bid BIG $$$ (this is a fact). I have spoken with Mike and he values his interiors at 20K each therebaouts so if you want one you need to bid higher than this to even have a shot. Considering that Snoopy gets that, thereabouts, I do think the prices on Romita interior will only go up. Sadly, Mike will probably be bidding 50K or so for them by than. He seems intent on owning every last page out there from issues #39 - #61. Kinda sux because I would like to have a crack at them but at those prices Id rather have a cover.

 

I agree totally. But rather than pay $20K+ for a page collectors are more likely just to move onto to something with a more realistic price tag.

Isn't there a danger of Mike actually killing the market he is trying to control?

 

He just bought the second page from issue #44 for almost 15K. Nice page, but are nice Romita ASM interior panel pages really worth 50% of a Romita ASM cover? I don't think so. And, I suspect most would agree it's disproportionate. Definitely indicates a supply and demand manipulation. I suspect covers will need to escalate in price, at least for the early run.

[LuckyCantor-migration]

 

But the reality is that Mike DOES own all this interior art. I have spoken with Mike and he is NEVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER selling them. I agree he has totally whacked out the S&D curves for ASM Romita interiors but if you want5 one you have to bid BIG $$$ (this is a fact). I have spoken with Mike and he values his interiors at 20K each therebaouts so if you want one you need to bid higher than this to even have a shot. Considering that Snoopy gets that, thereabouts, I do think the prices on Romita interior will only go up. Sadly, Mike will probably be bidding 50K or so for them by than. He seems intent on owning every last page out there from issues #39 - #61. Kinda sux because I would like to have a crack at them but at those prices Id rather have a cover.

 

I agree totally. But rather than pay $20K+ for a page collectors are more likely just to move onto to something with a more realistic price tag.

Isn't there a danger of Mike actually killing the market he is trying to control?

 

I dont think so because original art collectors seem to inevitably cough up whatever the price is no matter 'what it is' in order to get the 'classsic example'. I think thery call that 'price elastcity' [like insulin] . I have heard stories of Watterson being offered more than 50K for a Calvin & Hobbes example merely because the collector WANTS the example (Bill Watterson controls the supply in very much similar fashion to Mike Burkey). I imagine if Mike does sell, if he sequences it properly, he can probably make several millions, at some point. The fact is that I see more and more new collectors coming into this ridiculous market every year and the prices get more and more ridiculous every year. I honestly dont know where it will end but I think its a pretty safe bet that Spider-man, and Romita Spider-man will always be a coveted item. One things for sure, Mike defintely has a vested interest in keeping prices moving upwards and I think he is playing the market like a virtuoso!!!!!

[LuckyCantor-migration]

 

But the reality is that Mike DOES own all this interior art. I have spoken with Mike and he is NEVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER selling them. I agree he has totally whacked out the S&D curves for ASM Romita interiors but if you want5 one you have to bid BIG $$$ (this is a fact). I have spoken with Mike and he values his interiors at 20K each therebaouts so if you want one you need to bid higher than this to even have a shot. Considering that Snoopy gets that, thereabouts, I do think the prices on Romita interior will only go up. Sadly, Mike will probably be bidding 50K or so for them by than. He seems intent on owning every last page out there from issues #39 - #61. Kinda sux because I would like to have a crack at them but at those prices Id rather have a cover.

 

I agree totally. But rather than pay $20K+ for a page collectors are more likely just to move onto to something with a more realistic price tag.

Isn't there a danger of Mike actually killing the market he is trying to control?

 

He just bought the second page from issue #44 for almost 15K. Nice page, but are nice Romita ASM interior panel pages really worth 50% of a Romita ASM cover? I don't think so. And, I suspect most would agree it's disproportionate. Definitely indicates a supply and demand manipulation. I suspect covers will need to escalate in price, at least for the early run.

 

Hari, I think your estimates on these Large art ASM Covers is wayyyyyyyy off. Didnt the #40 sell for almost 100K several years ago? I think if the #44 Cover came to market it could crack the 100K mark with minimal effort. If you can find Large Art ASM Covers for 30K-50K, I think you should buy em up as I believe these estimates are too low for John's most memorable early works (especially considering a single interior will soon be at the 20K mark). Although the markets are not there presently, I do expect the covers of some of these ASM books to equal the total of all the interiors in the book (and possibly multiples of this total too).Id personally rather have the cover than the entire interior as I collect 'stand alone images' and if there are similar people like myself, I see covers defintely moving up on items of this nature.

[comix4fun]

Chris,

 

Large Art ended with #61(12" X 19"). Perhaps you are thinking of the X-tra Large Art and than maybe I see what you are saying. However, the art on ASM didnt become 'small' in the classical sense until after issue. #61.

 

 

 

Yes I was referring to full sized silver age sized art...to make an apples to apples comparison as to how much was produced. If we are comparing artist to artist one producing 5 times the amount of a certain type of art should weigh into the discussion (along with how much of that art one person owns).

 

With just short of 300 total Silver Age Sized art pages of ASM by Romita and 5 times that for Kirby, I think it's a valid point of reference. Even if Mike released what he had into the general population it is a tiny fraction of what Kirby produced on FF alone, much less all the other titles he worked on at Marvel until the switch to small art.

 

I don't think we can talk about how much is paid for Kirby art on FF without talking about how much of that art was produced and is available, much in the way we are discussing how much Mike owns.

 

Chris

[blowout]

Chris,

 

Large Art ended with #61(12" X 19"). Perhaps you are thinking of the X-tra Large Art and than maybe I see what you are saying. However, the art on ASM didnt become 'small' in the classical sense until after issue. #61.

 

 

 

Yes I was referring to full sized silver age sized art...to make an apples to apples comparison as to how much was produced. If we are comparing artist to artist one producing 5 times the amount of a certain type of art should weigh into the discussion (along with how much of that art one person owns).

 

With just short of 300 total Silver Age Sized art pages of ASM by Romita and 5 times that for Kirby, I think it's a valid point of reference. Even if Mike released what he had into the general population it is a tiny fraction of what Kirby produced on FF alone, much less all the other titles he worked on at Marvel until the switch to small art.

 

I don't think we can talk about how much is paid for Kirby art on FF without talking about how much of that art was produced and is available, much in the way we are discussing how much Mike owns.

 

Chris

 

Ok, now that you have provided us with all the relevant statistics, do you actually have an opinion on whether Romita ASM panel pages are valued realistically?

[heartened]

 

But the reality is that Mike DOES own all this interior art. I have spoken with Mike and he is NEVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER selling them. I agree he has totally whacked out the S&D curves for ASM Romita interiors but if you want5 one you have to bid BIG $$$ (this is a fact). I have spoken with Mike and he values his interiors at 20K each therebaouts so if you want one you need to bid higher than this to even have a shot. Considering that Snoopy gets that, thereabouts, I do think the prices on Romita interior will only go up. Sadly, Mike will probably be bidding 50K or so for them by than. He seems intent on owning every last page out there from issues #39 - #61. Kinda sux because I would like to have a crack at them but at those prices Id rather have a cover.

 

I agree totally. But rather than pay $20K+ for a page collectors are more likely just to move onto to something with a more realistic price tag.

Isn't there a danger of Mike actually killing the market he is trying to control?

 

He just bought the second page from issue #44 for almost 15K. Nice page, but are nice Romita ASM interior panel pages really worth 50% of a Romita ASM cover? I don't think so. And, I suspect most would agree it's disproportionate. Definitely indicates a supply and demand manipulation. I suspect covers will need to escalate in price, at least for the early run.

 

Hari, I think your estimates on these Large art ASM Covers is wayyyyyyyy off. Didnt the #40 sell for almost 100K several years ago? I think if the #44 Cover came to market it could crack the 100K mark with minimal effort. If you can find Large Art ASM Covers for 30K-50K, I think you should buy em up as I believe these estimates are too low for John's most memorable early works (especially considering a single interior will soon be at the 20K mark). Although the markets are not there presently, I do expect the covers of some of these ASM books to equal the total of all the interiors in the book (and possibly multiples of this total too).Id personally rather have the cover than the entire interior as I collect 'stand alone images' and if there are similar people like myself, I see covers defintely moving up on items of this nature.

 

The #40 sold for 60K or so several years ago; not sure it changed hands again at the level you're quoting, but I could be wrong. #41 was also sold for in the 40K range, from what I recall. Again, not sure if it traded hands again after that. Spider9698 may know. Small art Romita first run covers can be had for 30K, depending on image (some would be more, of course, like Woo's #69). Second run covers are still in the 15-20K range (like DF's ASM 155 cover).

[westform]

 

But the reality is that Mike DOES own all this interior art. I have spoken with Mike and he is NEVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER selling them. I agree he has totally whacked out the S&D curves for ASM Romita interiors but if you want5 one you have to bid BIG $$$ (this is a fact). I have spoken with Mike and he values his interiors at 20K each therebaouts so if you want one you need to bid higher than this to even have a shot. Considering that Snoopy gets that, thereabouts, I do think the prices on Romita interior will only go up. Sadly, Mike will probably be bidding 50K or so for them by than. He seems intent on owning every last page out there from issues #39 - #61. Kinda sux because I would like to have a crack at them but at those prices Id rather have a cover.

 

I agree totally. But rather than pay $20K+ for a page collectors are more likely just to move onto to something with a more realistic price tag.

Isn't there a danger of Mike actually killing the market he is trying to control?

 

He just bought the second page from issue #44 for almost 15K. Nice page, but are nice Romita ASM interior panel pages really worth 50% of a Romita ASM cover? I don't think so. And, I suspect most would agree it's disproportionate. Definitely indicates a supply and demand manipulation. I suspect covers will need to escalate in price, at least for the early run.

 

Hari, I think your estimates on these Large art ASM Covers is wayyyyyyyy off. Didnt the #40 sell for almost 100K several years ago? I think if the #44 Cover came to market it could crack the 100K mark with minimal effort. If you can find Large Art ASM Covers for 30K-50K, I think you should buy em up as I believe these estimates are too low for John's most memorable early works (especially considering a single interior will soon be at the 20K mark). Although the markets are not there presently, I do expect the covers of some of these ASM books to equal the total of all the interiors in the book (and possibly multiples of this total too).Id personally rather have the cover than the entire interior as I collect 'stand alone images' and if there are similar people like myself, I see covers defintely moving up on items of this nature.

 

The #40 sold for 60K or so several years ago; not sure it changed hands again at the level you're quoting, but I could be wrong. #41 was also sold for in the 40K range, from what I recall. Again, not sure if it traded hands again after that. Spider9698 may know. Small art Romita first run covers can be had for 30K, depending on image (some would be more, of course, like Woo's #69). Second run covers are still in the 15-20K range (like DF's ASM 155 cover).

 

Hi Hari; I think a more realistic breakdown of Romita spidey covers is pre-issue 100 which tend to command bigger bucks and post- 100 covers (although I would include the 101 in the former). The former are 12 and 15 cent covers and right now fetch 30k and up.... although I haven't seen or heard about too many 30k examples lately... mostly 40 to 50k!! Many classic covers here.

 

The later covers can be all over the board partially because of the vellum issue. 15k to 25k here seems more the norm. I wouldn't see a reason to call them second run covers though, maybe second tier... or, later in the run. There are examples here I'd pay 40k for though.... and I think others would as well, so look for these covers to grow in value. Many of the better examples have never come to public market.

[heartened]

 

But the reality is that Mike DOES own all this interior art. I have spoken with Mike and he is NEVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER selling them. I agree he has totally whacked out the S&D curves for ASM Romita interiors but if you want5 one you have to bid BIG $$$ (this is a fact). I have spoken with Mike and he values his interiors at 20K each therebaouts so if you want one you need to bid higher than this to even have a shot. Considering that Snoopy gets that, thereabouts, I do think the prices on Romita interior will only go up. Sadly, Mike will probably be bidding 50K or so for them by than. He seems intent on owning every last page out there from issues #39 - #61. Kinda sux because I would like to have a crack at them but at those prices Id rather have a cover.

 

I agree totally. But rather than pay $20K+ for a page collectors are more likely just to move onto to something with a more realistic price tag.

Isn't there a danger of Mike actually killing the market he is trying to control?

 

He just bought the second page from issue #44 for almost 15K. Nice page, but are nice Romita ASM interior panel pages really worth 50% of a Romita ASM cover? I don't think so. And, I suspect most would agree it's disproportionate. Definitely indicates a supply and demand manipulation. I suspect covers will need to escalate in price, at least for the early run.

 

Hari, I think your estimates on these Large art ASM Covers is wayyyyyyyy off. Didnt the #40 sell for almost 100K several years ago? I think if the #44 Cover came to market it could crack the 100K mark with minimal effort. If you can find Large Art ASM Covers for 30K-50K, I think you should buy em up as I believe these estimates are too low for John's most memorable early works (especially considering a single interior will soon be at the 20K mark). Although the markets are not there presently, I do expect the covers of some of these ASM books to equal the total of all the interiors in the book (and possibly multiples of this total too).Id personally rather have the cover than the entire interior as I collect 'stand alone images' and if there are similar people like myself, I see covers defintely moving up on items of this nature.

 

The #40 sold for 60K or so several years ago; not sure it changed hands again at the level you're quoting, but I could be wrong. #41 was also sold for in the 40K range, from what I recall. Again, not sure if it traded hands again after that. Spider9698 may know. Small art Romita first run covers can be had for 30K, depending on image (some would be more, of course, like Woo's #69). Second run covers are still in the 15-20K range (like DF's ASM 155 cover).

 

Hi Hari; I think a more realistic breakdown of Romita spidey covers is pre-issue 100 which tend to command bigger bucks and post- 100 covers (although I would include the 101 in the former). The former are 12 and 15 cent covers and right now fetch 30k and up.... although I haven't seen or heard about too many 30k examples lately... mostly 40 to 50k!! Many classic covers here.

 

The later covers can be all over the board partially because of the vellum issue. 15k to 25k here seems more the norm. I wouldn't see a reason to call them second run covers though, maybe second tier... or, later in the run. There are examples here I'd pay 40k for though.... and I think others would as well, so look for these covers to grow in value. Many of the better examples have never come to public market.

 

Completely agree with everything you said. My point was that these covers are not anywhere near the 100K mark at the moment (in general), although I see them migrating that way.

 

PS: I do agree with your pre-101 and post-101 breakdown, with some notable exceptions (121, 122, 129, 135, 136, etc.)

[comix4fun]

Ok, now that you have provided us with all the relevant statistics, do you actually have an opinion on whether Romita ASM panel pages are valued realistically?

 

 

At first blush it seems high to me, but not compared to Kirby FF which is in relatively large supply. It seems high to me because it is a price I would never pay.

 

They are on par, price-wise, with some Ditko pages. Which seems silly when you first look at it, but again for the extra large silver pages Ditko out-produced Romita 3-1.

 

The factor that makes me agree with you, and Hari, is how expensive panel pages have become compared to covers from the same era. It blows by every rule of thumb about comparitive values. That more than anything else makes the prices feel out of whack.

 

Compare it to Romita Jr. X-men. You can find really good panel pages from his first run (177-210) for $300-400, and lesser quality panels for $150-200, yet you cannot touch a cover you'd want for less than $10-15k and the really prime covers will run 22-25k or more. So are cover's over priced or panels under priced? Or are both exactly where the market dictates they should be?

 

Most people tend to compare cover to interior prices to make a determination that one is underpriced or one is over priced.

 

Until Romita Sr. ASM covers start moving for $75-100k these panel prices will seem over-priced.

 

But as long as there is someone willing to pay the asking price every piece is worth exactly what it sells for....just not to me personally.

 

Chris