A Good Read About The Comic Book Industry - Part III !

[OldGuy]

http://www.newsarama.com/Nick1.htm

[joe_collector]

Correction:

 

One man moaning and groaning about Free Comic Book Day.

[lighthouse]

Though I am one of those retailers who loathes DF and what they seem to represent for the life of the industry, I find very little to disagree with in this interview.

 

I stated in my own FCBD report here in the forums that I would happily pay more for the FCBD books if the money went toward better promotion. Donut and I both commented last year that Comics and Baseball are two industries that effectively anti-market their products. I tend to agree with Grant Morrison, from his interview on Sequential Tart, when he said "Comics are the province of the very cool, and the very uncool." I don't think they have to stay that way, though. If the industry would get up off its [!@#%^&^] and start telling the world how great comics are, I think you'd see huge results.

 

And we would all benefit from that... All of us... creators, publishers, distributors, retailers, grading services, secondary companies like DF, supply companies like Gerber and Cole, and all of us who currently have back issues we would like to sell...

 

I am one of the few people here who actually has the chance to vote with my pocketbook... but I would happily pay $100, $500, $1000, $2500, whatever the amount might be, if that amount was pooled together to buy a sizable chunk of advertising promoting the industry... I spend over $5K a year on advertising now, and the bulk of that (whether I like it or not) winds up just cannibalizing customers from the competition. I would love the opportunity to spend money telling people how cool comics really are...

[dam60]

Really great article. Here's a quote that caught my eye:

 

The fact that we really didn't have trade paperbacks then, as we do now, and trades and ancillary can count for up to half of a comic store's sales today, basically means that since 1987, the cost of a comic has not only more than doubled, retailers have added trade paperbacks and ancillary products to the mix of items their store carries, and the market hasn't grown. It's maybe stayed steady as an industry, and shrunk if you look at things from a unit sales perspective. We're in a sad state of affairs. This is pathetic, and that shouldn't be the case.

 

I also really liked the Baskin Robbins analogy with Free Scoop night. Let's see if anything does come of this?

 

DAM

[THE_BEYONDER]

I am getting SO sick of hearing people complain about the "COMIC INDUSTRY". Who [!@#%^&^] cares? If you like comics; buy them. If you don't......don't. Why do we need to "get more people involved"? I don't care about how many people collect comics. I don't care if comics are "cool". I don't really even care about the "state" of the comic market. Half( if not more) of the people currently "involved" with comics are in it for nothing more than the $$$$$. "What can we do to get more people into collecting comics?" Get rid of all the "speculators", and start writing GREAT stories again. I love comics.....but I''m starting to really dislike the "modern collector".

[dam60]

Beyonder, even though I don't think that you directed that last post at me, if I may I would like to address your points:

 

If you like comics; buy them. If you don't......don't. Why do we need to "get more people involved"?

 

I think it would be beneficial to get more people involved in the hobby from the selfish reason that if more people were buying comics the publishers might be tempted to put out more books. Now I don't mean this in a speculator way - but for instance with the Azrael DC series - I personally think that Az should have his own title. Unfortunately, city hall aka DC does not. With more readers it seems possible to have a wider array of titles.

 

"What can we do to get more people into collecting comics?" Get rid of all the "speculators", and start writing GREAT stories again.

 

Most definitely. Great stories are integral to success, but I do think that the medium has to be advertized more outside of the traditional means (ie promoting comis solely to comic book readers/collectors/speculators) to promote more readers.

 

Some of his ideas were extremely valid - it wouldn't hurt at all to have a blurb when Spidey 2 opens to advertize the comic right before the movie. It would be stupid for the industry not to try and capitalize on such great opportunities.

 

My thoughts,

 

DAM

[THE_BEYONDER]

My response wasn't directed at YOU or ANYONE. When I read that interview.....it bothered me for some reason. Maybe it was the questions rather than the answers, but I got irritated . People complain about the "lack of interest" in comics, and about "low sales" off the racks. What people fail to realize, is that "new readers" are not who the Comic Industry is APPEALING to. Why READ a new book, when you could just as easily "SLAB" it, and make some $$$. People don't ask if you've READ USM #1, they ask if you HAVE one. It's not about the stories....It's about the CONDITION of the paper it's printed on. Put it this way: If a kid could only buy ONE copy of USM 33......do you think he would READ it? Or would he "hand-pick" the best copy he could find...and send it to CGC?

[lighthouse]

I am getting SO sick of hearing people complain about the "COMIC INDUSTRY". Who [!@#%^&^] cares? If you like comics; buy them. If you don't......don't. Why do we need to "get more people involved"? I don't care about how many people collect comics. I don't care if comics are "cool". I don't really even care about the "state" of the comic market. Half( if not more) of the people currently "involved" with comics are in it for nothing more than the $$$$$. "What can we do to get more people into collecting comics?" Get rid of all the "speculators", and start writing GREAT stories again. I love comics.....but I''m starting to really dislike the "modern collector".

 

Congratulations. You just became only the second person I have rated 1-star.

 

If you're so sick of hearing about the comic industry, why the hell are you here? Why have you made 370 posts on these forums in six weeks? Why have you subjected us to your opinions if you had no interest in being part of this community?

 

"Who [!@#%^&^] cares?" I'll tell you who cares! Nearly everybody else on these forums, that's who. We ALL care about the comic industry and where it's going. Whether it's because we want to buy them, want to sell them, want to write them or want to read them, WE ALL CARE. Everybody, it seems, but you.

 

Why DON'T you care how many people collect comics? Why DON'T you care if comics are "cool"? The long-term health of the industry is vitally important to everybody else here whether they are readers, collectors, or dealers. Whether they want to be able to continue reading. Whether they want to be able to add items to their collection. Whether they want to have customers to sell the items they already possess. You claim to love comics, yet you DON'T care whether they continue to be published? What are you, five? You expect the rest of society to do everything for you while you sit back and enjoy the benefits...

 

"Half( if not more) of the people currently "involved" with comics are in it for nothing more than the $$$$$." That may have been true in 1993, but it sure as hell isn't true now. And if you pulled your head out the sand for five minutes you ought to be able to figure that out. Most people in the comic industry now can easily make more money doing other things, a great many of them are doing this because they love it too much to quit. Nearly every good comic writer working today can make more money writing mainstream fiction, but they continue to write comics because they love the medium. And you sit at your computer and spit on that love. How dare you? Who the hell do you think you are?

 

""What can we do to get more people into collecting comics?" Get rid of all the "speculators", and start writing GREAT stories again." Wake the hell up. Ask anyone in the business and they will tell you there is as much or more quality writing in comics today as there ever has been. Ask the folks on this forum who read Brian Azzarello, Brian Michael Bendis, Jeph Loeb, Alan Moore, Terry Moore, Greg Rucka, J. Michael Straczynski, Kevin Smith, or Brian K. Vaughan. Ask them whether they can't wait for Wednesday to roll around so they can get new comics. "Speculators"? Here you go with the 1993 again. Have you been in State Prison since then? A lot has changed in the last ten years.

 

Why don't you go back to wherever it was you were before April 17th, when you signed up here? Because the rest of us here DO care about comics, DO care about where they are going, and DO understand that 1993 was ten long years ago. Whether directly or indirectly, nearly every person here is doing something to "get more people involved". Maybe it's a co-worker, or a friend from Rotary, or the guy who delivers pizza, or the kids at the local youth shelter, or the blue-hairs waiting at the beauty parlor. But I've heard stories from nearly everyone else here about them spreading the love of comics. And you come in here and publicly announce that not only do you refuse to do the same, but you insist we're all just in it for the money. How dare you?

 

You say you are "starting to dislike the modern collector". Well, I count several of the folks here who fit that description among my friends. And I am way past "starting" to dislike you.

[joe_collector]

We ALL care about the comic industry and where it's going.

 

I don't. I buy back issues only, and really could care less what happens to all the $4 pamphlets.

 

These "we need more readers" conversations are blatantly monetarily-based, and whether it's a retailer, comic publisher or manufacturered collectibles ho' like DF, it all comes back to the money.

 

More readers means more money means higher values for resellers.Not that this is necessarily bad, but I really wish people would get off this "save the comics industry" when it's really "make me more money".

 

I don't mean to single anyone out, but the following comment was in another thread:

 

But I sure can't top your recruiting efforts - getting 12 new comic book fans into the fold is impressive. If we could all achieve this mark, we'd be guaranteed a market for our comics 20+ years down the road...!

 

It's a lot like those tree huggers screaming "save the Earth", when the Earth is in absolutely no danger, and it's us on the cusp of extinction. We worry because it's of self-preservation, not because we have an altruistic need to "save the industry".

 

My back issues won't disappear if the new comics market crumbles and I'll get just as much enjoyment out of them regardless of their resale value.

[aardvark88]

To grow the industry, we must cultivate the next generation of collectors. I think Free Comic Day was a gr8 start. I plan to give away free comics at the company barbecue this summer to all the young kids. They will love it: X-men, Disney, Archie, Batman, Superman.

[joe_collector]

Do you know how to grow the next generation of collectors:

 

Break into parent's houses and plant a stack of super-hero comics in the can.

 

I'm serious.

[PovertyRow]

and really could care less what happens to all the $4 pamphlets.

 

How much less could you care, then?

[THE_BEYONDER]

I am getting SO sick of hearing people complain about the "COMIC INDUSTRY". Who [!@#%^&^] cares? If you like comics; buy them. If you don't......don't. Why do we need to "get more people involved"? I don't care about how many people collect comics. I don't care if comics are "cool". I don't really even care about the "state" of the comic market. Half( if not more) of the people currently "involved" with comics are in it for nothing more than the $$$$$. "What can we do to get more people into collecting comics?" Get rid of all the "speculators", and start writing GREAT stories again. I love comics.....but I''m starting to really dislike the "modern collector".

 

Congratulations. You just became only the second person I have rated 1-star.

 

If you're so sick of hearing about the comic industry, why the hell are you here? Why have you made 370 posts on these forums in six weeks? Why have you subjected us to your opinions if you had no interest in being part of this community?

 

"Who [!@#%^&^] cares?" I'll tell you who cares! Nearly everybody else on these forums, that's who. We ALL care about the comic industry and where it's going. Whether it's because we want to buy them, want to sell them, want to write them or want to read them, WE ALL CARE. Everybody, it seems, but you.

 

Why DON'T you care how many people collect comics? Why DON'T you care if comics are "cool"? The long-term health of the industry is vitally important to everybody else here whether they are readers, collectors, or dealers. Whether they want to be able to continue reading. Whether they want to be able to add items to their collection. Whether they want to have customers to sell the items they already possess. You claim to love comics, yet you DON'T care whether they continue to be published? What are you, five? You expect the rest of society to do everything for you while you sit back and enjoy the benefits...

 

"Half( if not more) of the people currently "involved" with comics are in it for nothing more than the $$$$$." That may have been true in 1993, but it sure as hell isn't true now. And if you pulled your head out the sand for five minutes you ought to be able to figure that out. Most people in the comic industry now can easily make more money doing other things, a great many of them are doing this because they love it too much to quit. Nearly every good comic writer working today can make more money writing mainstream fiction, but they continue to write comics because they love the medium. And you sit at your computer and spit on that love. How dare you? Who the hell do you think you are?

 

""What can we do to get more people into collecting comics?" Get rid of all the "speculators", and start writing GREAT stories again." Wake the hell up. Ask anyone in the business and they will tell you there is as much or more quality writing in comics today as there ever has been. Ask the folks on this forum who read Brian Azzarello, Brian Michael Bendis, Jeph Loeb, Alan Moore, Terry Moore, Greg Rucka, J. Michael Straczynski, Kevin Smith, or Brian K. Vaughan. Ask them whether they can't wait for Wednesday to roll around so they can get new comics. "Speculators"? Here you go with the 1993 again. Have you been in State Prison since then? A lot has changed in the last ten years.

 

Why don't you go back to wherever it was you were before April 17th, when you signed up here? Because the rest of us here DO care about comics, DO care about where they are going, and DO understand that 1993 was ten long years ago. Whether directly or indirectly, nearly every person here is doing something to "get more people involved". Maybe it's a co-worker, or a friend from Rotary, or the guy who delivers pizza, or the kids at the local youth shelter, or the blue-hairs waiting at the beauty parlor. But I've heard stories from nearly everyone else here about them spreading the love of comics. And you come in here and publicly announce that not only do you refuse to do the same, but you insist we're all just in it for the money. How dare you?

 

You say you are "starting to dislike the modern collector". Well, I count several of the folks here who fit that description among my friends. And I am way past "starting" to dislike you.

 

HOLY [!@#%^&^]!!!!!! I was just playing DEVIL'S ADVOCATE......but you know what? I think I might be "starting" to dislike you. God forbid you defend your position...without making it PERSONAL.

[joe_collector]

Whether directly or indirectly, nearly every person here is doing something to "get more people involved". Maybe it's a co-worker, or a friend from Rotary, or the guy who delivers pizza, or the kids at the local youth shelter, or the blue-hairs waiting at the beauty parlor. But I've heard stories from nearly everyone else here about them spreading the love of comics.

 

I don't think I'm the only one seeing a definite religious slant here.

 

I also don't see why, just because I collect comics, it's somehow my duty to "spread the love" and bring in new comic-reading "converts" to the fold? I don't see how that is my responsibility, any more than spreading my appreciation of other things like movies (Hey buddy, have you bought a DVD today?), novels, art or games.

 

I don't go walking around enforcing my buying habits on anyone else, and I appreciate when the religious/marketing zealots don't bang on my door and bug me.

[PovertyRow]

I also don't see why, just because I collect comics, it's somehow my duty to "spread the love" and bring in new comic-reading "converts" to the fold?

 

But Joe, seriously, that is exactly what you do in the majority of your posts, but in the opposite direction.

[joe_collector]

But Joe, seriously, that is exactly what you do in the majority of your posts, but in the opposite direction.

 

This is a COMICS forum, where we're all fans of various degrees, and I'm referring to the real world.

 

I find what is being espoused here to be quite intrusive. Just like the zealot-geeks who tell me "I'm not a fan" because I won't go to that [!@#%^&^]-fest Matrix Reloaded more than once.

[lighthouse]

People complain about the "lack of interest" in comics, and about "low sales" off the racks. What people fail to realize, is that "new readers" are not who the Comic Industry is APPEALING to. Why READ a new book, when you could just as easily "SLAB" it, and make some $$$. People don't ask if you've READ USM #1, they ask if you HAVE one. It's not about the stories....It's about the CONDITION of the paper it's printed on. Put it this way: If a kid could only buy ONE copy of USM 33......do you think he would READ it? Or would he "hand-pick" the best copy he could find...and send it to CGC?

 

Circulation of Ultimate Spider-Man 1: 354,115 (plus 400,000+ FCBD editions)

Number of CGC certified copies: 1,405 (includes 879 red cover and 426 white cover)

 

Approximate Circulation of USM 33: 120,000

Number of CGC certified copies: 499

 

Do you honestly think Marvel is trying to sell this book on the basis of sending to CGC? Because if they are, they aren't doing a very good job of getting that message out. The vast majority of collectors do not own a single "slabbed" comic, much less plan to send every comic they buy to CGC...

[THE_BEYONDER]

People complain about the "lack of interest" in comics, and about "low sales" off the racks. What people fail to realize, is that "new readers" are not who the Comic Industry is APPEALING to. Why READ a new book, when you could just as easily "SLAB" it, and make some $$$. People don't ask if you've READ USM #1, they ask if you HAVE one. It's not about the stories....It's about the CONDITION of the paper it's printed on. Put it this way: If a kid could only buy ONE copy of USM 33......do you think he would READ it? Or would he "hand-pick" the best copy he could find...and send it to CGC?

 

Circulation of Ultimate Spider-Man 1: 354,115 (plus 400,000+ FCBD editions)

Number of CGC certified copies: 1,405 (includes 879 red cover and 426 white cover)

 

Approximate Circulation of USM 33: 120,000

Number of CGC certified copies: 499

 

Do you honestly think Marvel is trying to sell this book on the basis of sending to CGC? Because if they are, they aren't doing a very good job of getting that message out. The vast majority of collectors do not own a single "slabbed" comic, much less plan to send every comic they buy to CGC...

 

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say. Did I SAY that "Marvel is trying to sell this book on the basis of sending to CGC"? I think there seems to be some kind of confusion surrounding my use of the terms "market" and "industry", and your use of the term "collector". If we are talking about "customers", I'm trying to tell you what the CURRENT "market" FEELS like. You can call me a "NEWBIE",.......................but that's WHO we're talking about.

[lighthouse]

I don't go walking around enforcing my buying habits on anyone else, and I appreciate when the religious/marketing zealots don't bang on my door and bug me.

 

Comparing the folks here to Jehovah's Witnesses, or drug dealers (which I assume will be soon to follow in this line of logic), is ridiculous and you know it, JC...

 

You can't tell me that you haven't recommended a movie you liked to someone else. You can't tell me you haven't recommended a game to someone else. You can't tell me you haven't recommended a novel you liked to someone else. And if the person in question hadn't heard of the director, or the actor, or the author before, of course you give them a little background on that person, and the other works they have done...

 

Are there people who love the Matrix way too much? Of course there are. But you'll find that with anything, be it a restaurant, a movie, a book, a religion, a car, a watch, a pair of shoes, or a comic book... I'll never listen to TMBG ever again because I had a friend in college who liked them WAY too much and turned me off to them forever.

 

But wouldn't you be mad if a friend of yours found a restaurant that they knew you would like, serving a cuisine that you liked, and they didn't tell you for months? There's a big difference between letting someone in on something that's good and walking around wearing a sign that says "First fix is free."

[Joanna]

I also don't see why, just because I collect comics, it's somehow my duty to "spread the love" and bring in new comic-reading "converts" to the fold?

 

But Joe, seriously, that is exactly what you do in the majority of your posts, but in the opposite direction.

 

Sometimes I think Joe is like one of the characters in your pre-code horror books, Pov. Or like that guy on the Twilight Zone who miraculousy survives the Atom bomb and is blissfully alone with millions of books -- until he finds his coke-bottle glasses are shattered.

 

It's more important to Joe to be 'right' than anything else, and because he has predicted gloom and destruction for comics, he must do his part to make that happen by spreading the hate. Everyone else's motives are always greed. No matter what they collect or how they approach the hobby, it's only greed. The collector who reads every new book and never sells a single issue his entire life, dying with the collection intact -- greed. The collector who only buys back issues, yet still tries to promote comics by giving them away to children -- greed. The guy who spends $10,000 a year on comics and tries to offset that price by selling a few lesser copies of books he's upgrading -- greed. No one here actually loves comics for the characters, the stories, the mythology, the art, the imagination, the history, the pieces of our youth owned by these caped heroes -- not one of us cares about any of these things. It's all just greed. Except for Joe. He's different than everyone else.

 

Once you understand this, Pov, you'll admit to your nasty, greedy self that you've never cared about comics at all. Just the money you're constantly getting for selling them. You do constantly slab and sell comics, don't you? Doesn't matter. You're still about greed.

 

-- Greedy