PSA to start grading comics?

[Aman619]

hold on---I know JC has poured salt on a enough wounds here... but I agree with his stance on CGC. He'd like to reap the high premiums others pay for 9.4s etc but holds back due to the unpredictability of their grading, and the high costs involced in the "gamble". So till now he has not sent anything in.

 

But he'd still like to move some books at a profit.. And therefore PSA might make that possible for him. Many of us have bought graded boo s but never sent one in for grading due to costs, time, etc... SO this isnt the best issue to jump on him over.

 

Further, CGC prices are lowering and the census keeps growing, and now the comics grading industry is looking more and more like the graded sports card timeline--- isnt this what hes been shouting about all along?

[BestOf7-migration]

Oh definitely. The PSA name is the big one in sportscards

 

I remember reading something BIG about PSA, but it wasn't too favorable.

 

I recall PSA's activity in that scandal as being the equivalent of CGC giving its tag and slab equipment to a comic shop, and the comic shop getting caught for slabbing eveything with great scores -- in some cases, even sticking a blue label on a restored comic. If PSA decides to use the same approach to grading comics, then their done! Personally, I can't see myself wanting to do business with PSA after reading about the scandal, and judging from the comments I've read in the sportscard forum about PSA, I know I'm not the only one.

[joe_collector]

Knowing what you know about the evolution of the graded collectibles market, if you would have slabbed them within the first couple years of CGC's inception, you would have made a ton of money.

 

Sure, but I'm not interested in "making money" off my comics, and my only goal would be to add some slabs to my collection (mostly for display purposes and storage/protection) while selling off some dupes for some grading-cash.

 

That's why I "missed the boat", as I really didn't need the money anywhere near that bad to want to be part of the speculator frenzy.

[joe_collector]

you must also have a big batch that it would currently make sense to submit (like MTU 1-9, earlier Spideys, your multiple hoards of Byrne X-men which you could get graded for a paltry $12 each these days), so what's holding up the program?

 

You've got me there, and I've been trying to get some Byrne X-Men and Miller DD's, along with picking out a few 30 and 35-cent variants for a sub, I will get one in this summer, guaranteed.

 

I'm a little hesitant on the X-Men, as they'd be to sell, and I want to make sure I keep the very best issues here. It's a tough job to go through the hoarde, thinking "what would be a definite 9.4, outside 9.6, but have no chance at a 9.8".

[joe_collector]

Personally, I can't see myself wanting to do business with PSA after reading about the scandal, and judging from the comments I've read in the sportscard forum about PSA, I know I'm not the only one.

 

Come on, to be part of any graded commodites market, you've got to keep one eye closed at all times. There are scams everywhere there is money to be made, and no company is immune. Or as the old saying goes, "No one ever got rich by being honest".

 

If you're worried about that sort of thing, then do not buy slabbed goods. If you like to collect slabs, then don't think about it.

[joe_collector]

But he'd still like to move some books at a profit.. And therefore PSA might make that possible for him. Many of us have bought graded boo s but never sent one in for grading due to costs, time, etc... SO this isnt the best issue to jump on him over.

 

Thanks for the support, and it's pretty obvious that CGC's price structure is serously flawed.

 

For example, you could grade an Amazing Spider-man 140 and up for the $12 Modern fee, but send in an ASM 138 or 139 and you get racked for being one or two months out of the limit. Oooh, the Mindworm and Grizzly!!!

 

That's bizarre, especially as ASM 148, 149, 150 and 151 are far more valuable in their CGC form.

[Mutantcollector]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out if PSA is indeed jumping into the comic grading market. With cards, PSA was the first grader and still holds the largest market share. Becket came along and has only gained acceptance with modern card collectors. SGC and GAI have gained the acceptance and trust of some vintage card collectors but PSA still dominates in market share. PSA has by far the stongest dealer and advanced collector (the one's with the $) support. If they gain the support of the major dealers, and biggest collectors, they can become a force in the comics hobby. For cards, the best cards in the hobby are in PSA slabs. With comics, the best comics are in CGC slabs. Getting some of the best comics in the hobby into PSA slabs will be key for PSA's success in the comic market.

[Mutantcollector]

Oh definitely. The PSA name is the big one in sportscards

 

I remember reading something BIG about PSA, but it wasn't too favorable.

 

I recall PSA's activity in that scandal as being the equivalent of CGC giving its tag and slab equipment to a comic shop, and the comic shop getting caught for slabbing eveything with great scores -- in some cases, even sticking a blue label on a restored comic. If PSA decides to use the same approach to grading comics, then their done! Personally, I can't see myself wanting to do business with PSA after reading about the scandal, and judging from the comments I've read in the sportscard forum about PSA, I know I'm not the only one.

 

The thread you refer to was started by one of the bigest PSA haters and is very biased against PSA. Most of what has been on the sportcard section of these forums has been very biased against PSA because the forums are SGC forums and the posters dilike PSA. The "scandal" you are refering to is the result of one card dealer tampering with the PSA slabs, switching the cards in the slabs and trying to sell the tampered slabs on ebay. PSA helped catch them, they did not help them.

[lighthouse]

Hard to comment on rumors...

 

But the folks behind PSA could absolutely be a legitimate competitor for CGC.

 

PSA is a lot closer to a bank than a garage band, and would have instant credibility in the marketplace. Plus I doubt their first foray into comic grading would be a plagiaristic website discovered on April Fools Day...

 

Just a side note, I think the Beckett-Overstreet analogy is flawed. There had been annual price guides for sportscards for years before Beckett came along. But the introduction of a monthly guide led to both greater liquidity and greater volatility in the sportscard marketplace. Sportcards took off in the 1980s on the back of the Beckett price guide.

 

The more accurate analogy would be the introduction of a Wizard-sponsored third-party grading company. And the simple fact that Wizard outsells EVERY SINGLE monthly comic every month means that a Wizard-sponsored comic grading company would do very, very well...

[Polyphemus]

What's going to happen is the same thing that happened when people saw the money eBay was making - they tried to copy eBay and they all eventually crashed and burned.

 

CGC has both a market lock and a psychological lock on the grading service.

 

All comers should wake up, smell the coffee, relax and pour themselves a cup.

 

The show's over. The monkey died.

 

(I love mixing my metaphors.)

 

I think Heritage is a good example of a company that contradicts the above.

[Bugaboo-migration]

The thread you refer to was started by one of the bigest PSA haters and is very biased against PSA.

That's putting it politely. The guy's an arrogant tool.

[Captain_Pike]

...The "scandal" you are refering to is the result of one card dealer tampering with the PSA slabs, switching the cards in the slabs and trying to sell the tampered slabs on ebay. PSA helped catch them, they did not help them.

The dealer was (eBay ID:WIWAG) aka When It Was A Game. WIWAG would submit a card to PSA (for grading) and receive a grade of PSA10 (Gem Mint). WIWAG would crack/open the PSA holder & replace the Gem Mint card with a lower "quality" card in the PSA10 holder. The seller was successful in selling his tampered PSA cards on eBay. This process was done multiple times - creating HAVOC to the PSA Population Report of certain sportscards. PSA has NEVER identified (to the public) which cards/serial numbers were affected by the WIWAG scandal.

[drbanner]

I'm a little hesitant on the X-Men, as they'd be to sell, and I want to make sure I keep the very best issues here. It's a tough job to go through the hoarde, thinking "what would be a definite 9.4, outside 9.6, but have no chance at a 9.8".

 

Couldn't you decide for yourself which one would be the "best issue" to keep, or would you need CGC's help to make the call? In any event, if you're uncomfortable with your own grading skills, you could send them all in and keep the highest grade (per CGC's criteria).

 

C'mon Joe, pull the trigger!

[BestOf7-migration]

Come on, to be part of any graded commodites market, you've got to keep one eye closed at all times. There are scams everywhere there is money to be made, and no company is immune. Or as the old saying goes, "No one ever got rich by being honest".

 

With all due respect, I was trying to illsutrate how human greed and bad corporate governance led to holes in PSA's business model. Allowing sportscard shop xyz to grade cards is just plain stupidity, and really only showed collectors what PSA is all about. I will say this again -- if they try to pull the same stunt in the comics grading, their toast! By denying that this type of "make money at whatever cost" attitude is not a problem, you are turning a blind-eye to the real crutch of the collectors hobby.

[Bugaboo-migration]

With all due respect, I was trying to illsutrate how human greed and bad corporate governance led to holes in PSA's business model. Allowing sportscard shop xyz to grade cards is just plain stupidity, and really only showed collectors what PSA is all about. I will say this again -- if they try to pull the same stunt in the comics grading, their toast! By denying that this type of "make money at whatever cost" attitude is not a problem, you are turning a blind-eye to the real crutch of the collectors hobby.

Someone mentioned earlier:

 

WIWAG would submit a card to PSA (for grading) and receive a grade of PSA10 (Gem Mint). WIWAG would crack/open the PSA holder & replace the Gem Mint card with a lower "quality" card in the PSA10 holder. The seller was successful in selling his tampered PSA cards on eBay.

 

Somebody also mentioned earlier:

 

That PSA helped catch the offender.

 

But, you are saying that PSA "allowed" this shop to grade the cards themselves?

 

You also made the following analogy earlier:

 

I recall PSA's activity in that scandal as being the equivalent of CGC giving its tag and slab equipment to a comic shop, and the comic shop getting caught for slabbing eveything with great scores -- in some cases, even sticking a blue label on a restored comic.

 

Based on the story in the link you provided, that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Captain_Pike]

Please refer to fellow board member: Lothar52 posting.

 

[Bugaboo-migration]

To me, it deosn't seem like PSA was involved in the deception at all. It just seems like the anti-PSA crowd are the ones that think that. I know absolutely nothing about the card market and maybe I'm wrong......but that's how it appears to this viewer looking at it from the outside and without any bias getting in the way.

[joe_collector]

Couldn't you decide for yourself which one would be the "best issue" to keep, or would you need CGC's help to make the call?

 

I'm more than confident in my grading skills, but as you know, CGC doesn't share my appreciation for well-centered, non-white border, no production crease NM comics, so I really do have to go into CGC-Mode when I'm grading, and work under their specific rules.

[BestOf7-migration]

To me, it deosn't seem like PSA was involved in the deception at all.

 

Bug

 

Fraudulant cards are still being discovered (fraud=trimmed, fake, etc.). These cards are PSA graded, and show no signs of tampering. Two scenarios; the first is that someone is grading cards outside of the PSA operation, and PSA knows about it and the other is that there are fraudulant holders available in the open market. Either scenario is frightening. I don't recall the exact thread, and don't know for certain whether the person is a PSA-hater, but I do know that a friend of mine had doubts about a card he purchased on ebay, and that it may have been a fake, and after this scandal, he found out is was in fact a fake. That holder did not show any signs of tampering, and it was a PSA graded card.

 

BTW: since when do you take comments from CGC-haters any less seriously?

[joe_collector]

By denying that this type of "make money at whatever cost" attitude is not a problem, you are turning a blind-eye to the real crutch of the collectors hobby.

 

Nope, I'm just stating that if you're worried about fraud, why in the world would you be spending thousands of dollars to a plastic encased comic, coin or card?

 

Stuff like this goes on all the time, and buying graded collectibles requires a certain mindset, kinda like the original Matrix, where Joe P's character munches on a fake steak and exclaims "ignorance is bliss".