Legitimate Non-Threatening Questions Posed To Matt Nelson

[THE_BEYONDER]

Just so we're clear -- you're saying that if Matt affirmatively discloses pressing, you'll start buying those books from him? Sure you would.

 

Don't you get tired of putting words into peoples' mouths?

 

What I said was that if Matt implimented a practice of pro-active disclosure, I would buy from him again. I didn't say what I'd buy from him, just that I'd buy from him.

 

At this moment in time, I will buy nothing, whether pressed or not, because of what I consider to be unethical practices. However, if he adopted a practice of full, proactive disclosure, I would consider buying, but yes, it would be the books that hadn't been worked on.

 

At the moment, they're all tarred with the same brush, and I feel absolutely no desire to check out each item with him directly.

 

And Brian, my dollars are minimal, I agree, but what if we can get this to snow-ball? What if I'm joined by another two or three previous buyers? What if they become a dozen? Or two dozen? Or fifty buyers who withdrew their patronage?

 

You and Scott have sat your high horses and told us that what we're doing here is blowing hot air with no chance of change.

 

Now you're telling us that taking proactive action with our wallets will also have no chance of change.

 

You might be right with point 1, but you sure are sh!te ain't right with 2. It's only a question of numbers.

 

I assume the strategy is to try & convince us that it's hopeless to resist.

[Foolkiller]

Buyers don't ask me if my books have been pressed. Why? Because they know I would tell them if they were. Well...that...and because a large percentage of buyers don't even know to ask the question in the 1st place.

 

Matt is creating a terrible atmosphere for sellers. His actions impact those who choose not to market in pressed books.

 

It's not just Matt. And what you've stated isn't a reason why HE ought to disclose. Where's this negative atmosphere? Go outside the boards and nobody seems to care.

 

Now -- if you're saying that a large percentage don't know to ask the question -- then I can understand why you would say that there needs to be a group to educate the collectors to ask...

[THE_BEYONDER]

You're missing the point. There should be NO NEED to ask if a book has been pressed.

 

There's the way things "should" be and then there's the way things are. Never the twain shall meet until you FORCE pressers to disclose. All this talk is just fantasy and grandstanding. That's just a fact.

 

 

That's not 'fact'...that's opinion.

 

Not really. What has been accomplished here? After literally thousands of posts on the subject Matt is still selling pressed books without disclosure and doing well at it. All this talk hasn't even made a dent in the most public and obvious "offender". Talk about a dog without a bite!

 

If you REALLY want to make a difference, if you REALLY want to get something done, organize a boycott. Take names of those who refuse to buy from Matt because of his nondisclosure policies and send him the list. Go on every message board you can find and get the word out. Hand out leaflets at cons. Take an ad out in Overstreet. You guys are so incensed over his actions but you all seem content to sit back and argue with the same freaking dozen people over and over again. It hasn't accomplished much and it won't accomplish much.

 

Working on it

 

 

[october]

You're missing the point. There should be NO NEED to ask if a book has been pressed.

 

There's the way things "should" be and then there's the way things are. Never the twain shall meet until you FORCE pressers to disclose. All this talk is just fantasy and grandstanding. That's just a fact.

 

 

That's not 'fact'...that's opinion.

 

Not really. What has been accomplished here? After literally thousands of posts on the subject Matt is still selling pressed books without disclosure and doing well at it. All this talk hasn't even made a dent in the most public and obvious "offender". Talk about a dog without a bite!

 

If you REALLY want to make a difference, if you REALLY want to get something done, organize a boycott. Take names of those who refuse to buy from Matt because of his nondisclosure policies and send him the list. Go on every message board you can find and get the word out. Hand out leaflets at cons. Take an ad out in Overstreet. You guys are so incensed over his actions but you all seem content to sit back and argue with the same freaking dozen people over and over again. It hasn't accomplished much and it won't accomplish much.

 

Working on it

 

 

 

There you go.

 

Remember guys, talk is cheap. VERY cheap.

[Foolkiller]

You're missing the point. There should be NO NEED to ask if a book has been pressed.

 

There's the way things "should" be and then there's the way things are. Never the twain shall meet until you FORCE pressers to disclose. All this talk is just fantasy and grandstanding. That's just a fact.

 

 

That's not 'fact'...that's opinion.

 

Not really. What has been accomplished here? After literally thousands of posts on the subject Matt is still selling pressed books without disclosure and doing well at it. All this talk hasn't even made a dent in the most public and obvious "offender". Talk about a dog without a bite!

 

If you REALLY want to make a difference, if you REALLY want to get something done, organize a boycott. Take names of those who refuse to buy from Matt because of his nondisclosure policies and send him the list. Go on every message board you can find and get the word out. Hand out leaflets at cons. Take an ad out in Overstreet. You guys are so incensed over his actions but you all seem content to sit back and argue with the same freaking dozen people over and over again. It hasn't accomplished much and it won't accomplish much.

 

Working on it

 

 

 

I like that title...

[Harvey Dude]

So again, it`s not actually a disclosure issue at all. If Matt said he`ll disclose pressing up front and actually does so, as Sho Nuff wants him to do, you seem to be saying that you`d still pass on the books that he doesn`t say are pressed because at this point you basically don`t believe him anymore.

 

I know the response was not directed to me but this is my take. I believe it is a disclosure issue for many of these discussions on pressing. I am all for pressing and other forms of restoration and I have no problem buying this material. I am simply for the disclosure of the information. I believe that it is unethical to deliberately press a book and not disclose this fact. The onus should not be placed on the consumer to ask the right questions, especially when the book is advertised as unrestored. Prior to reading these boards, I would have believed unrestored meant that no work has been performed on the book.

[Harvey Dude]

you all seem content to sit back and argue with the same freaking dozen people over and over again. It hasn't accomplished much and it won't accomplish much.

 

I have to respectfully disagree. My buying habits have changed due to the information provided here. I discussed CGC information outside the boards and I have had an impact on the way my collecting circle purchases books.

[Aman619]

I have also stopped buying from dealers I know to be in pressing's lucrative thrall. (lust like the sound of that) meaning a slave to the profit motive that breeds an inability to stop themselves from 'pressing' each opportunity to their advantage.

[FlyingDonut]

Buyers don't ask me if my books have been pressed. Why? Because they know I would tell them if they were. Well...that...and because a large percentage of buyers don't even know to ask the question in the 1st place.

 

Matt is creating a terrible atmosphere for sellers. His actions impact those who choose not to market in pressed books.

 

Why don't they ask you? They should. That's part of the problem. They should ask every seller. If every seller is asked, then the problem will go away as the market will decide if pressing matters. Much like restoration, ask away.

 

The answer, by the way, is not nearly as easy as you make it out to be. If you say "I have not pressed this book" unless you bought it off of the newsstand, that does not make it unpressed. It merely means that you haven't pressed it.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Buyers don't ask me if my books have been pressed. Why? Because they know I would tell them if they were. Well...that...and because a large percentage of buyers don't even know to ask the question in the 1st place.

 

Matt is creating a terrible atmosphere for sellers. His actions impact those who choose not to market in pressed books.

 

Why don't they ask you? They should. That's part of the problem. They should ask every seller. If every seller is asked, then the problem will go away as the market will decide if pressing matters. Much like restoration, ask away.

 

The answer, by the way, is not nearly as easy as you make it out to be. If you say "I have not pressed this book" unless you bought it off of the newsstand, that does not make it unpressed. It merely means that you haven't pressed it.

 

The answer is:

 

NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE

 

Why don't they ask you? They should.

 

No. They shouldn't have to.

[THE_BEYONDER]

BTW

 

I'm not asking sellers to state that a book hasn't been pressed...only that it has.

[FlyingDonut]

Buyers don't ask me if my books have been pressed. Why? Because they know I would tell them if they were. Well...that...and because a large percentage of buyers don't even know to ask the question in the 1st place.

 

Matt is creating a terrible atmosphere for sellers. His actions impact those who choose not to market in pressed books.

 

Why don't they ask you? They should. That's part of the problem. They should ask every seller. If every seller is asked, then the problem will go away as the market will decide if pressing matters. Much like restoration, ask away.

 

The answer, by the way, is not nearly as easy as you make it out to be. If you say "I have not pressed this book" unless you bought it off of the newsstand, that does not make it unpressed. It merely means that you haven't pressed it.

 

The answer is:

 

NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE

 

Why don't they ask you? They should.

 

No. They shouldn't have to.

 

OK, but that's still not "this isn't a pressed book". And why shouldn't they? Ask away - if you don't press books, who cares?

 

Buyer: "Any restoration?"

Beyonder: "Not that I know of"

Buyer: "Book been pressed?"

Beyonder: "I haven't, and I don't think it has been"

Buyer: "OK, great."

 

takes 10 seconds - and if every buyer asks every seller, the marketplace will soon decide if pressing matters.

 

Scenario 1:

Buyer: "Any restoration?"

Big Wig Dealer: "Not that I know of"

Buyer: "Book been pressed?"

Big Wig Dealer: "I don't want to tell you"

Buyer: "Yikes, I'll pass then."

 

 

Scenario 2:

Buyer: "Any restoration?"

Big Wig Dealer: "Not that I know of"

Buyer: "Book been pressed?"

Big Wig Dealer: "Yes, it was professionally pressed"

Buyer: "Hmmmm, OK, thanks for telling me."

 

Scenario 3:

Buyer: "Any restoration?"

Big Wig Dealer: "Not that I know of"

Buyer: "Book been pressed?"

Big Wig Dealer: "Yes, it was professionally pressed"

Buyer: "No, I'll pass on it then."

 

Again, takes 10 seconds, and the buyer is fully aware of what he/she is buying, plus there's the added benefit of trusting the seller.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Scenario 4:

 

Buyer walks up to a booth at a con & buys a comic. They take that comic home knowing the book....to the best of the sellers knowledge....is not restored(I include pressing under this category). They never had to ask...because they trust that the seller would have told them upfront if any work had been done.

[THE_BEYONDER]

For those that keep asking.....

 

The reason Matt is center stage in all of this is because the pressing cabal are attempting to use his 'policy' to set precedent.

 

"DON'T ASK...WON'T TELL" will be become the standard.

 

To me that's unacceptable....hence my resistance.

[jbud73]

Kinda skimmed this thread as its looooong and I think, for me at least covers much ground already tread upon. I understand and respect the questions, I think they are valid within a certain context and as always much informed debate on either side. Am I surprised with the lack of response by Matt Nelson - not at all.

 

Given his premise that NDP is not resto and for that and other reasons - the constant CGC, detectability argument that gets trucked out, I can understand his reluctance to get into another round of talks. As someone pointed out it would be spun and selective responses at that. Given the convenience of his stance and the fact that it is assailable, it stands to reason that he does not want to engage in point counter point.

 

I mean lets look at this from an inverse perspective. Lets say Matt was to answer Mark's questions. Either A) He skirts certain issues as they make his positions seem convenient and unethical. or, B) He answers the questions badly and hurts his position in the great NDP debate. Its really lose-lose.

 

I see also that Davenport posted the professional resto/conserver associational standards. Is Matt in violation of these? Ya he probably is, but I think Brian's argument has weight. Comics are on the lower rungs of ethical behavior in the art/artifact/antiquities spectrum and that's saying a lot - Susan Cicconi's quest to impose and educate a professional code of ethics in comics is the exception rather than the rule in this medium. I mean Matt Nelson's own early recounting of his experience with comics was that 'he'd do pretty much anything to improve the grade of his books when he was younger.' He then took classes under Sarill and learned how to do resto/conservation professionally. For me it does not stand to reason that simply because he can restore a comic that he is also a restoration professional adherent to a standard and code of ethics. My question would be, does he belong to the Society of American Archivists or the International Institute of Conservation? I doubt it.

 

While the situation is unfortunate and one day it would be nice if all the restoration professionals in comics were subject to a codified set of standards and ethics, as October mentioned - there's the way it is and there's the way it ought to be. I think all the collectorate can do is continue to make those in the hobby aware of the business practises of dealers and forces at play in general in the marketplace.

[Harvey Dude]

As usual, well stated

[FlyingDonut]

For those that keep asking.....

 

The reason Matt is center stage in all of this is because the pressing cabal are attempting to use his 'policy' to set precedent.

 

"DON'T ASK...WON'T TELL" will be become the standard.

 

To me that's unacceptable....hence my resistance.

 

And that is precisely why you should ask every time and vote with your wallet. If they won't tell you, walk away. Enough of those transactions take place, disclosure will happen. If all that happens is bleating in the wind, nobody will care.

[tth2]

If anyone is clouding the issue, I think it's the apologists who keep shouting that Matt will diclose that work has been done to a book if someone asks. How convenient for both Matt and his pocket book.

I guess my words are being misinterpreted if I'm being labeled as an apologist for Matt. I am against pressing. Disclosed or not, I'm against it. I want to get people off this position that if it's disclosed then it's okay. It's no more okay than Jason's micro-trimming would have been okay as long as he disclosed it. I am against the manipulation/destruction of books for purely aesthetic purposes, and I don't care if the person doing the manipulation/destruction buys billboards proclaiming that he did the work.

 

If athletes of a sport were allowed to compete if they disclosed upfront that they took steroids, I still wouldn't support that sport anymore.

[tth2]

Scenario 1:

Buyer: "Any restoration?"

Big Wig Dealer: "Not that I know of"

Buyer: "Book been pressed?"

Big Wig Dealer: "I don't want to tell you"

Buyer: "Yikes, I'll pass then."

 

 

Scenario 2:

Buyer: "Any restoration?"

Big Wig Dealer: "Not that I know of"

Buyer: "Book been pressed?"

Big Wig Dealer: "Yes, it was professionally pressed"

Buyer: "Hmmmm, OK, thanks for telling me."

 

Scenario 3:

Buyer: "Any restoration?"

Big Wig Dealer: "Not that I know of"

Buyer: "Book been pressed?"

Big Wig Dealer: "Yes, it was professionally pressed"

Buyer: "No, I'll pass on it then."

I prefer Scenario 4:

Buyer: "Any restoration?"

Big Wig Dealer: "Not that I know of"

Buyer: "Book been pressed?"

Big Wig Dealer: "Yes, it was professionally pressed"

Big Wig Dealer: "WTF! Stop pouring blood all over my book!"

[Aman619]

If anyone is clouding the issue, I think it's the apologists who keep shouting that Matt will diclose that work has been done to a book if someone asks. How convenient for both Matt and his pocket book.

I guess my words are being misinterpreted if I'm being labeled as an apologist for Matt. I am against pressing. Disclosed or not, I'm against it. I want to get people off this position that if it's disclosed then it's okay. It's no more okay than Jason's micro-trimming would have been okay as long as he disclosed it. I am against the manipulation/destruction of books for purely aesthetic purposes, and I don't care if the person doing the manipulation/destruction buys billboards proclaiming that he did the work.

 

If athletes of a sport were allowed to compete if they disclosed upfront that they took steroids, I still wouldn't support that sport anymore.

 

you may not be an apologist for Matt and Im glad you restated your position against all pressing, not just disclosure... but when you write posts that even hint at learning to deal with the present situation, or suggest that Matt's right not to show up here anymore you only add fuel to the other side. Of course Matt has no obligation to answer questions, and of course he's probably better off not to. But that's speaking on behalf of Matt. Its not getting us closer to an end to pressing for profit. It bothers me that so many are "realists" about accepting the lousy hand we have been dealt by this "cash cabal" ...