Did I get caught in the crossfire?

[COI]

I deleted that original post because I realized that you were also going on preference.

 

Like I said, the only bronze Marvel I'm considering dropping some coin on in the future is an acurately graded 9.6 X Men #94.

[joe_collector]

ALL Key Bronze Age issues are overpriced, but since I collect Bronze, I'm only interested in which comics will maintain their inflationary values vs. those looking to step over the cliff.

 

Hulk 181 has moved into AF 15/FF 1 territory and those hoping for HG (9.2 and up) copies to fall will be disappointed, though CGC 9.0 and lower are due for an equalization.

 

ASM 129 is out there on the edge of the cliff, carrying $1K in tote, and wondering if it can survive the fall..

[COI]

Interesting you should mention X-Men #94 here. That is one book that I have always considered to be overpriced, it is after all only the second app of the new X-Men.

 

I like X Men #94 because it's the fist issue of the continuity that has gone on to become what X Men is today. Couple that with the fact that it's a lot harder to find in super high grades and I think it's a good book to have and worth shelling out for.

[COI]

Hulk 181 has moved into AF 15/FF 1 territory

 

In what respect? People always use that comparison, but I don't feel they're comparable price-wise or by significance either.

[blowout]

I like X Men #94 because it's the fist issue of the continuity that has gone on to become what X Men is today. Couple that with the fact that it's a lot harder to find in super high grades and I think it's a good book to have and worth shelling out for.

 

I'm not saying its a bad book, its a great book and the continuity thing is definately a factor. I just feel that it is priced far too closely to GS X-Men #1 which has all the genuine first appearances.

[joe_collector]

In what respect? People always use that comparison, but I don't feel they're comparable price-wise or by significance either.

 

Comics are pieces of colored paper joined together by two staples. Perception is king.

[blowout]

Hulk 181 has moved into AF 15/FF 1 territory In what respect? People always use that comparison, but I don't feel they're comparable price-wise or by significance either.

 

Hulk 181 is to the BA and its collectors, what AF 15 is to the SA.

[COI]

I'm not saying its a bad book, its a great book and the continuity thing is definately a factor. I just feel that it is priced far to closely to GS X-Men #1 which has all the genuine first appearances.

 

True, but GS X Men #1 is also more available. I know of many X Men enthusiasts who consider X Men #94 just as significant to them as G.S X Men #1, and always have them go hand in hand, almost like ASM #121 and #122. So regardless of guide, I think I'd rather put my money into a X Men #94.

[COI]

Hulk 181 is to the BA and its collectors, what AF 15 is to the SA.

 

True, but they're still not in the same "territory". Personally, I think FF #1 alone is in a league by itself.

 

 

[COI]

In what respect? People always use that comparison, but I don't feel they're comparable price-wise or by significance either.

 

Comics are pieces of colored paper joined together by two staples. Perception is king.

 

Smart azz.

[blowout]

True, but they're still not in the same "territory". Personally, I think FF #1 alone is in a league by itself.

 

I agree that Hulk 181 doesn't come close to AF 15 & FF 1. But then again, I am primarily a SA collector, Bronze fans may view things slightly differently. As JC said, its all a matter of perception.

[COI]

1. But then again, I am primarily a SA collector, Bronze fans may view things slightly differently.

 

In terms of significance to the individual, sure, perception can be all over the place. But if we're talking about historical/$$$/investment value, there's a difference between perception and delusion.

[joe_collector]

In terms of significance to the individual, sure, perception can be all over the place. But if we're talking about historical/$$$/investment value, there's a difference between perception and delusion.

 

You sir, are seriously overestimating the importance of comics in a general sense.

 

They're pieces of paper that we attribute value to, and if Hulk 181 is viewed as the Bronze Age equivalent of AF 15 of FF 1 (by a sizeable portion of the buying public) then that's the way it is.

 

Look at it a different way; when Silver Age was coming on, I could just hear all the Golden Age fogeys moaning and groaning about this "young Spider-whippersnapper" and how Bulletman would be remembered as a more significant book.

 

Perception is king, not age, not rarity, not mis-placed historical importance, but simply who among the comic collecting community believes it, and puts their money down as proof.

[COI]

You sir, are seriously overestimating the importance of comics in a general sense.

 

We're on a comic-board. I'm not talking about its significance in a general sense, I'm talking about within the context of the hobby.

 

We were having a comic debate. I'm starting ot think that nothing can be said anymore without you debating it. And if you can't debate it in context, all of a sudden I'm overestimating the importance of comics, and creating a false sense of historical significance.

 

C'mon man, chill out a little. Go get laid or something. We all know you're intelligent, so stop taking every opportunity to argue everything everyone says, no matter what they say. The fact is, I tend to agree with your posts probably more than most here, so un-clench a little on the whole "devils advocate" stance that you've taken.

[joe_collector]

We're on a comic-board. I'm not talking about its significance in a general sense, I'm talking about within the context of the hobby.

 

Sure, but I'm just stating that what is, will not always be.

[PovertyRow]

They're pieces of paper that we attribute value to,

 

Jeeze, Joe. You can say that about absolutely ANYTHING. The original Declaration Of Independence is a piece of paper with some ink scribbles on it. A Van Gough is some cloth and oil and ground minerals. A Ferrari is the same composition as a Yugo.

 

The artist, the writer, the colorist etc...what? They are humans so shall we reduce them to their basic chemical compostion and say they are only worth a few dollars?

 

The cultural impact? Well, we have to ignore that because it takes a human brain with the ability to remember, to assess, to judge, to classify experiences and come up with appreciation for such things (kind of like the Van Gough). So what is a human brain and soul worth nowadays in sheer parts? Oops! Forget the soul. That cannot be seen or measured, nor can intuition, appreciation and understanding. So scratch that and just tell me how much the chemical composition of the human brain is worth.

 

To reduce a comic book to "pieces of paper we attribute a value to" is the most elemental and elementary definition and, and please do NOT pardon me for this, inane, banal and common-without-an-ounce-of-cleverness-or-value observation. You do not take into consideration any aspects of WHY a comic is what it is. You just look at wood pulp and ink composition.

 

Seriously, why are you even here?

 

 

 

[joe_collector]

They're pieces of paper that we attribute value to,

 

Jeeze, Joe. You can say that about absolutely ANYTHING. The original Declaration Of Independence is a piece of paper with some ink scribbles on it. A Van Gough is some cloth and oil and ground minerals.

 

Nope, those are originals and comparable to the original art to Action Comics #1.

 

Comics are mass-market pulp reproductions, and please don't insult my intelligence by comparing them to one-of-a-kind artwork or historical documents.

 

And yes, I appreciate the intrinsic value of comic books, but I also feel that many "investors" are being taken on a long, dark ride.. kinda like in an EC comic.

[PovertyRow]

They're pieces of paper that we attribute value to,

 

Jeeze, Joe. You can say that about absolutely ANYTHING. The original Declaration Of Independence is a piece of paper with some ink scribbles on it. A Van Gough is some cloth and oil and ground minerals.

 

Nope, those are originals and comparable to the original art to Action Comics #1.

 

Comics are mass-market pulp reproductions, and please don't insult my intelligence by comparing them to one-of-a-kind artwork or historical documents.

 

And yes, I appreciate the intrinsic value of comic books, but I also feel that many "investors" are being taken on a long, dark ride.. kinda like in an EC comic.

 

But to say original art is special you have to bypass the paper/ink banality you propose (because all that original art consists of is paper and ink).

 

Bottom line? Comic books ARE originals, as one can demonstrate by the many reprints and reproductions. Original comic art is NOT a comic book. They are just that: original ART. A comic book is just that: a comic BOOK. You cannot compare original art to a comic book because they are very different animals. They have gone through totally different processes. They possess unique characteristics.

 

Comic books are, indeed, originals. Or should a first edition Poe hold the same value as a 2003 paperback reprint?

[joe_collector]

Comic books are, indeed, originals. Or should a first edition Poe hold the same value as a 2003 paperback reprint?

 

Surely you know the distinction.

 

Originals are one-of-a-kind (art, comic art, etc.), First Prints are the initially offered mass-market edition (Comics, First Edition Poe, Limited Edition Prints) and Reprints are the subsequent 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. offerings of the mass market edition.

 

It's pretty simple really, and I'm using common terms in the above explanation.

[PovertyRow]

Comic books are, indeed, originals. Or should a first edition Poe hold the same value as a 2003 paperback reprint?

 

Surely you know the distinction.

 

Originals are one-of-a-kind (art, comic art, etc.), First Prints are the initially offered mass-market edition (Comics, First Edition Poe, Limited Edition Prints) and Reprints are the subsequent 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. offerings of the mass market edition.

 

It's pretty simple really, and I'm using common terms in the above explanation.

 

No need - use complex terms - I can keep up. I still maintain that one cannot say, even blithely, that "comic books are juts paper and ink" and not apply that to any other medium. Because to say that bypasses every argument I have made that YOU have bypassed. You made a very very specific statement that allowed for no extrapolation - in fact it intentionally excluded extrapolation. And you reduced the argument to the most banal generalization. And then you conter my points by using my points.