Obadiah Oldbuck vs. Superman

[comicnut]

Bob,

 

You've made your points, and your case.

You've presented your arguments well.

But you have to come to realize that 99% of the time on these boards you won't change people's minds. No matter how good the arguments. Besides, how can you change people's minds unless they actually have experience in the selected fields that are up for debate.

I think it is pretty clear that those debating in favor of Action 1 deal in GA & SA, but I would bet that they have very little experience with Platinum, and Victorian.

Obviously Showcase and yourself have vast experience in the Plat and before and as you know so do I, and so we all have similiar views.

 

I appreciate the time you've taken to post your thoughts and views on here. I'm also pretty sure that the others whom have disagreed with you do as well.

 

That being said it was an enjoyable debate.

 

The winner and still champ:

 

Micronaughts # 1

[selegue]

...

But you have to come to realize that 99% of the time on these boards you won't change people's minds. No matter how good the arguments.

 

HAH! only 99%?

 

Besides, how can you change people's minds unless they actually have experience in the selected fields that are up for debate.

I think it is pretty clear that those debating in favor of Action 1 deal in GA & SA, but I would bet that they have very little experience with Platinum, and Victorian.

Obviously Showcase and yourself have vast experience in the Plat and before and as you know so do I, and so we all have similiar views.

 

Seriously, does the longevity of this thread say that there's room for a new forum on the CGC boards? It would have to be one group for all early comic books. "Pre-Golden Age"? "Comic-Book History"?

So many "participants" were just here to take pot-shots at Bob and Steve that it would be interesting to see how the discussion develops in a devoted group. Is there a venue for suggesting new forums? PM a moderator? Maybe CGC wouldn't have any interest in promoting items that they can't slab.

 

The winner and still champ:

 

Micronaughts # 1

 

You've posted that before and I'm too dense to get the joke. What's Micronaughts #1? Were British editions of Micronauts spelled that way? Your childhood favorite?

 

Jack

[BLBcomics-migration]

Bob,

 

You've made your points, and your case.

You've presented your arguments well.

But you have to come to realize that 99% of the time on these boards you won't change people's minds. No matter how good the arguments. Besides, how can you change people's minds unless they actually have experience in the selected fields that are up for debate.

I think it is pretty clear that those debating in favor of Action 1 deal in GA & SA, but I would bet that they have very little experience with Platinum, and Victorian.

Obviously Showcase and yourself have vast experience in the Plat and before and as you know so do I, and so we all have similiar views.

 

I appreciate the time you've taken to post your thoughts and views on here. I'm also pretty sure that the others whom have disagreed with you do as well.

 

That being said it was an enjoyable debate.

 

Michael Golden rules!

 

The debate points i encounter here seem to lean towards "most important" being how much something is worth as well as world wide icon recognition. Those were the points I came away with reading Bill and other's posts.

 

me, i look upon Obadiah as one would look upon the headwaters of the Nile. Where it all began. In comic book form as we recognize it today.

 

Research continues on the PlatinumAgeComics list i began which is currently housed on yahoogroups.com. We will be beginning the revision there for the 2007 Guide shortly. Our research there is not from a money perspective.

 

Food for Thought is why i spent so much time defending the research. The fact that this thread in 3 short months shot up to 12,000 views is proof enough that interest does exist, that there is a thirst to understand what these sections of the Overstreet I compile are all about.

 

Or maybe some were expecting some sort of Marvel-style slug fest ala FF #25/26 -

 

best

 

Robert Beerbohm

[BLBcomics-migration]

 

 

I want one.

 

Jack

 

Jack, find me that lunch box....I'll pay you $20,000 for it

 

I'll leave that to Bob Beerbohm --

Bob, how quickly can you stop the presses on your next price list update?

 

Jack

 

Reminds me of the Tom Corbett Space cadet lunch box i have from the 1950s.

 

I am sure the original manufacturor would have had the art work hand colored

 

bob

[Aman619]

me, i look upon Obadiah as one would look upon the headwaters of the Nile. Where it all began. In comic book form as we recognize it today. Robert Beerbohm

 

 

I really like your comparison to the source of the Nile. For many many years people wondered where it was. Finally they found it, and historians, scholars and cartographers rejoiced and celebrated. But - - who besides them gave a damm? I dont think its a place anyone is touting as a $20K summer vacation spot, or a place to buy land... Its remaons a very ut of th eway secluded hard to reach point on the map, just like OO to comics collectors.

 

Bob, I agree that there has been a lot of interest in this discussion. But we have to keep in mind it started as a plug for OO as being a valuable and shrewd investment. THAT was what has fueled this thread... jet-fueled it in fact! Its was Showcase's unceasing hype and taunting replies upfront that made this thread a must-read for the passing crowds, and participants futilely trying to get him so siften his monomaniacal stance....until you appeared and shifted it into a more serious debate/discussion.

 

I for one am curious as to how where and when comics developed in America, and trust in your research to ascertain the answer. Maybe you have already found the 'source'. Maybe it truly is OO. Or maybe you must hike a few miles/years more upstream to get there... Either way, Im with th other side that STILL thinks it will remain an idle curiousity for comics fans, and in no way a slam dunk money-making enterprise to hoard OO copies at futures price levels.

[showcase4]

The fact that this thread in 3 short months shot up to 12,000 views is proof enough that interest does exist, that there is a thirst to understand what these sections of the Overstreet I compile are all about.

Robert Beerbohm

 

yes Bob, and a lot of that 12,000 views is in part due to your involvement on this thread, which I appreciate. I don't think this thread is dead ---it may be just getting warmed up. I said recently I love Action #1....so what...who doesn't. If you look back to page 1, the initial question I had was why is Action #1 worth 10 times more than Obadiah Oldbuck, and that led to the following topics:

 

1. why is Obadiah Oldbuck a $20,000 book?

2. is Obadiah Oldbuck even a comic book?

3. what makes Obadiah Oldbuck a comic book?

4. what is the definition of a comic book?

5. how can you compare a Victorian age book to a Golden age book?

6. why is Obadiah Oldbuck a big deal?

7. How do you know it is the 1st US comic book?

8. How do you know the research is final?

9. How can you pick Obadiah as more important than Action 1?

 

and so on, and so on. All great questions, and great topics to help us all with the ongoing education needed to be learned and wise collectors. So far, I have learned alot from all of you who have contributed to this post. As the person who started this thread, I will be the person to end it...and I'm not ready yet...this stuff is too good and too important. This thread lives on !!!

[Theagenes]

I have to agree pretty much with everything aman619 said. I do find the origins of the modern comic book to be a very interesting topic - whether or not OO is a good investment at $20K, not so much. I didn't even jump in until you showed up and elevated the level of the discussion as aman619 pointed out. Maybe 99% of the people here won't be swayed by your arguments, but as for myself, you've given me a lot to think about even if I'm not totally convinved. This is an area in which I have very little knowledge, but about which I would like learn more. I very much appreciate the time you take to post here and share your research with us. Thank you.

 

I don't know how well a separate pre-Golden Age forum would fly, but I would at least like to see a "Post your Victorian Era Comics Here" thread. I'd really like to see more images of these books.

 

And for the time being I'll accept the fact that in Obadiah you've found the first U.S. cartoon chapbook!

[Comicdey]

I plan on buying a copy of the book with all the historical facts as researched by Robert Beerbohm when it is published.

 

History is a good thing.

[ShoNuff-migration]

me, i look upon Obadiah as one would look upon the headwaters of the Nile. Where it all began. In comic book form as we recognize it today.

 

That would be real neat-o...except for the small detail that it's not in comic book form as we recognize it today.

 

 

We will be beginning the revision there for the 2007 Guide shortly. Our research there is not from a money perspective.

 

[BLBcomics-migration]

Hello A

 

Besides the group who discovered the headwaters of the Nile, who gives a damn?

 

Well, me, for one, and anyone who cares passionately about this much-maligned art form.

 

There was a national USA exorcism in late 1954 regarding comic books in America.

 

My involvement was at first a hobby that got way out of hand a long time ago.

 

It is not about the money which drives me in this hobby, though i do make my living buying and selling old comic books - it is the contents, the stories behind the scenes, the wonder of why who when comics were created which drives my little wagon looking under so many rocks, looking for nuggets, connecting dots, filling in the jigsaw puzzles

 

Will Superman remain the best known comics icon?

 

Will Action #1 remain the most valuable comic book?

 

of course it will - but that does not make Action #1 the most important artifact in the comic book lexicon. For me, it goes back to where it all began

 

I think many listers here might very well be driven by the monetary investment angle of the comics world.

 

I do not think there is a earlier comic book printed in America

 

I have searched many spots for a decade now, i am satisfied the beginning has been re-defined properly and handle any and all brick-bats.

 

Is Obadiah Oldbuck a shrewd investment?

 

Time will tell - the consciousness on this long-neglected earlier portion of America

s comic strip book history has taken a a long time to enter the minds of many many collectors.

 

Do I expect a huge surge in the number of collectors of this material?

 

Of course not

 

There is not enough stuff to go around for many to have a sizable collection

 

Simply to know it exists is good enough for me

 

The hiking i continue to do in learning about the origins of the comic strip now extend into previous centuries in Europe, going back a very long time. On my Plat list, we have also examined scans of Japanese wood cut comic strips from the 1200 AD era - there is still a lot to uncover as comic scholars from around the world continue to connect the dots via the internet.

 

An idle curiosity?

 

of course you must mean the numbers of collectors interested in acquisition

 

i agree - the numbers will never get to Xmen status

 

but the competition on eBay when something good hits that auction site keeps getting fiercer and harder to win, at least for me, and this is true for many many items pre 1930

[BLBcomics-migration]

me, i look upon Obadiah as one would look upon the headwaters of the Nile. Where it all began. In comic book form as we recognize it today.

That would be real neat-o...except for the small detail that it's not in comic book form as we recognize it today.

We will be beginning the revision there for the 2007 Guide shortly. Our research there is not from a money perspective.

 

[BLBcomics-migration]

I have to agree pretty much with everything aman619 said. I do find the origins of the modern comic book to be a very interesting topic - whether or not OO is a good investment at $20K, not so much. I didn't even jump in until you showed up and elevated the level of the discussion as aman619 pointed out. Maybe 99% of the people here won't be swayed by your arguments, but as for myself, you've given me a lot to think about even if I'm not totally convinved. This is an area in which I have very little knowledge, but about which I would like learn more. I very much appreciate the time you take to post here and share your research with us. Thank you.

 

I don't know how well a separate pre-Golden Age forum would fly, but I would at least like to see a "Post your Victorian Era Comics Here" thread. I'd really like to see more images of these books.

 

And for the time being I'll accept the fact that in Obadiah you've found the first U.S. cartoon chapbook!

 

Most archeology no one gives a damn about. Most people will not bother to even look at the published research. I have encountered many many people who get the Overstreet PG who have never even noticed ANYTHING in the fornt of the book - all they do is look up prices, as that is what runs their wagon in this hobby.

 

I do not think a pre-30s forum would work on this CGC area of the hobby. Most cannot be slabbed, are not in 9.0 or better, does not have a super hero, hence, most will not notice.

[showcase4]

But we have to keep in mind it started as a plug for OO as being a valuable and shrewd investment. THAT was what has fueled this thread... jet-fueled it in fact! Its was Showcase's unceasing hype and taunting replies upfront that made this thread a must-read for the passing crowds, and participants futilely trying to get him so siften his monomaniacal stance....

in no way a slam dunk money-making enterprise to hoard OO copies at futures price levels.

 

Hey Aman,

I'm not sure why you are fostering so much pent up hostiltiy towards me, but relax...take a deep breath. You make me sound like the Charles Manson of the comics world. This entire post has to do with seeking the opinions of Golden Age collectors regarding a Victorian Age key, and comparing it to a Golden Age key. I know what the book is... I don't need any reinforcements from strangers on the internet to validate my choices of what I collect. If I wanted to try to manipulate and drive up the price of 164 year old comic book, I certainly wouldn't do it in a Golden Age internet forum. This post is a way for me to see the mindset of collectors outside of my pre-1938 world, and boy have I seen.

 

My suggestion is give me a break, and enjoy the post. There is alot of good stuff here...and regardless of what you think, I'm not going off now to sharpen an axe so I can chop people up into little pieces....I am a mortgage loan officer, and am going to help a family buy their 1st home.

[*paull*]

BLB: "I have encountered many many people who get the Overstreet PG who have never even noticed ANYTHING in the fornt of the book"

 

___________________

 

 

paull: I'm not speaking for everyone here, but there are many who think that the market reports in the beginning of the OPG are completely worthless, and are used as a soapbox for dealers to pump up their favorite material. I don't even read that stuff.

[Aman619]

But we have to keep in mind it started as a plug for OO as being a valuable and shrewd investment. THAT was what has fueled this thread... jet-fueled it in fact! Its was Showcase's unceasing hype and taunting replies upfront that made this thread a must-read for the passing crowds, and participants futilely trying to get him so siften his monomaniacal stance....

in no way a slam dunk money-making enterprise to hoard OO copies at futures price levels.

 

Hey Aman,

I'm not sure why you are fostering so much pent up hostiltiy towards me, but relax...take a deep breath. You make me sound like the Charles Manson of the comics world. This entire post has to do with seeking the opinions of Golden Age collectors regarding a Victorian Age key, and comparing it to a Golden Age key. I know what the book is... I don't need any reinforcements from strangers on the internet to validate my choices of what I collect. If I wanted to try to manipulate and drive up the price of 164 year old comic book, I certainly wouldn't do it in a Golden Age internet forum. This post is a way for me to see the mindset of collectors outside of my pre-1938 world, and boy have I seen.

 

My suggestion is give me a break, and enjoy the post. There is alot of good stuff here...and regardless of what you think, I'm not going off now to sharpen an axe so I can chop people up into little pieces....I am a mortgage loan officer, and am going to help a family buy their 1st home.

 

okay.. I'll let up. Your good posts have almost caught up to your earlier "huckserish" ones by now anyway. I would like you to acknowledge that you tone in the earliest days of this thread were so one-note that many here were convinced you were Krazy Kat, famous for his no let up, no discussion, all hype all the time posts on artwork. All those posts really happened, and are still there, and you typed each and every one of them. I was only one of many who quit this thread because they kept getting the same answers to every line of thought: "BUY OO! Its the best darn investment known to man! Get in early! I know I have!!)"

 

but anyway, you have certainly relaxed since then, so.... all is cool.

[showcase4]

But we have to keep in mind it started as a plug for OO as being a valuable and shrewd investment. THAT was what has fueled this thread... jet-fueled it in fact! Its was Showcase's unceasing hype and taunting replies upfront that made this thread a must-read for the passing crowds, and participants futilely trying to get him so siften his monomaniacal stance....

in no way a slam dunk money-making enterprise to hoard OO copies at futures price levels.

 

Hey Aman,

I'm not sure why you are fostering so much pent up hostiltiy towards me, but relax...take a deep breath. You make me sound like the Charles Manson of the comics world. This entire post has to do with seeking the opinions of Golden Age collectors regarding a Victorian Age key, and comparing it to a Golden Age key. I know what the book is... I don't need any reinforcements from strangers on the internet to validate my choices of what I collect. If I wanted to try to manipulate and drive up the price of 164 year old comic book, I certainly wouldn't do it in a Golden Age internet forum. This post is a way for me to see the mindset of collectors outside of my pre-1938 world, and boy have I seen.

 

My suggestion is give me a break, and enjoy the post. There is alot of good stuff here...and regardless of what you think, I'm not going off now to sharpen an axe so I can chop people up into little pieces....I am a mortgage loan officer, and am going to help a family buy their 1st home.

 

okay.. I'll let up. Your good posts have almost caught up to your earlier "huckserish" ones by now anyway. I would like you to acknowledge that you tone in the earliest days of this thread were so one-note that many here were convinced you were Krazy Kat, famous for his no let up, no discussion, all hype all the time posts on artwork. All those posts really happened, and are still there, and you typed each and every one of them. I was only one of many who quit this thread because they kept getting the same answers to every line of thought: "BUY OO! Its the best darn investment known to man! Get in early! I know I have!!)"

 

but anyway, you have certainly relaxed since then, so.... all is cool.

 

I publically ackowledge that when this post started, I was a poopie head at times.

( I have 4 kids...so poopie head is part of my vocabulary ) I have since mellowed, and am grateful this post has had such a repsonse from GA collectors such as yourself. Thank you for your great input

[comicnut]

Now I close in for the kill.

 

People have freed up money they were going to use to buy OO, they must spend it.

 

Who wants to buy micronauts #1???

[BLBcomics-migration]

 

Here is the cover to the now out of print FIRST AMERICAN COMIC BOOK published as an exact facsimile reprint by the Naples Italy comicon in 2003

[ShoNuff-migration]

It is not about the money which drives me in this hobby, though i do make my living buying and selling old comic books...

 

[showcase4]

It is not about the money which drives me in this hobby, though i do make my living buying and selling old comic books...