Obadiah Oldbuck vs. Superman

[ciorac]

SSOC surely is a comics magazine

 

so is Superman #1

 

both are folded over wrap saddle stitched around flimsy pamphlets -

 

magazines with different height & width

 

 

Supey #1 is a comic book. And you know that. Stop debating semantics and make your case with facts that are supportable.

 

What things are called evolves over time. As a historian you know that. Comics have evolved, and separated into groups.

 

Magazines

Comic books

Trade paperbacks

Hard bound compilations

Treasury Editions

 

etc., etc.

 

Each its own entity.

 

We call horseless carriages cars now. My grandfather called them automobiles. Not many people still do. I can't remember when someone asked me "What kind of automobile do you drive?" I drive a car.

 

I collect comic books, treasuries, comic magazines, etc. Each one is a separate collection.

[ShoNuff-migration]

i bow down to your superior intellect

No need to bow. And feel free to post more of your non-comic books so I can contrast them with scans of what real comic books look like.

[ShoNuff-migration]

Supey #1 is a comic book. And you know that.

I'm beginning to wonder if he actually does.

[Shield]

Rudolph Töpffer - Birth of the Graphic Novel

In 1827, Switzerland's Rudolphe Töpffer created a comic strip and continued on to publish seven graphic novels. In 1837, "The Adventures of Obadiah Oldbuck" was published by Rudolphe Töpffer and it is considered the earliest known comic book. In 1842, "The Adventures of Obadiah Oldbuck" became the first comic book published in the United States.

 

Actually, one spells his name Rodolphe

 

They have his name mis-spelled, or you transcribed it wrong

There are some facts wrong in your post or you just transcribed it wrong. "The Adventure of Obadiah Oldbuck" was not a comic book. It was a book of pictures with narrations under them. Comic books didn't come along until later.

 

Exactly. Again, read my post about all the thing OO is missing that 99.9% of all true comic books do have. Staples, ads, word ballons, glossy covers, prices consistent with the times, color, etc. Saying these things hadn't been invented yet is just a convienient excuse.

 

Also, I can say with 99.9999% certainty that none of these illustrated pamphlets inspired anything produced post 1920. Usually if something is groundbreaking it wouldn't take another 3 generations (90 years) to emulate it, now would it?

[Shield]

i bow down to your superior intellect

 

you have obviously done a tremendous amount of research

 

you should publish your own price guide

 

continue onwards hi-jacking this thread

 

Hijacking? I think anyone has just as much right as anyone else to post here. Just because he's posting an opposing view than you he's automatically hijacking the thread? Don't break your arm patting yourself on your back, Bob.

[Shield]

i bow down to your superior intellect

No need to bow. And feel free to post more of your non-comic books so I can contrast them with scans of what real comic books look like.

 

did you notice OO has ROMAN NUMERALS for page counts? In AMERICA we use standard numbering. Yet reason # 10 that OO isn't an American comic.

[BLBcomics-migration]

 

Exactly. Again, read my post about all the thing OO is missing that 99.9% of all true comic books do have. Staples, ads, word ballons, glossy covers, prices consistent with the times, color, etc. Saying these things hadn't been invented yet is just a convienient excuse.

 

Also, I can say with 99.9999% certainty that none of these illustrated pamphlets inspired anything produced post 1920. Usually if something is groundbreaking it wouldn't take another 3 generations (90 years) to emulate it, now would it?

 

Staples? you must be getting that from Bill Ponsetti

 

ads? try most any issues of Dell Comics,whoops, not comic books, eh?

 

word balloons? opinions may vary widely

 

glossy covers? awe, gee, it has to be varnished?

 

prices consistent with the times? Our bud Superman was fond of "What th...!@#@?

 

color? the dumbest thing i have read all day

- cerebus is not a comic book, ZAP is not a comic book

 

so what if they did not "inspire anything after 1920" (your words,not mine)

 

how do YOU know that?

 

Were they not comic strips prior to 1920?

 

- does that make them not comic strips, er, comic books, er, comic magazines, er, graphic novels, er, ah, trade paperbacks, er, what are they then?

 

Obadiah Oldbuck spawned a comic strip book market in the USA - period

 

- you have not read the history article in Overstreet spelling all this out

 

- if you did once, go back in read it again, quiz is on Tuesday

 

- continue onwards in hi-jacking this thread, ya'all

 

more power to you

 

um, you forgot word balloons in that scientific listing you made

[BLBcomics-migration]

SSOC surely is a comics magazine

 

so is Superman #1

 

both are folded over wrap saddle stitched around flimsy pamphlets -

 

magazines with different height & width

 

 

Supey #1 is a comic book. And you know that. Stop debating semantics and make your case with facts that are supportable.

 

What things are called evolves over time. As a historian you know that. Comics have evolved, and separated into groups.

 

Magazines

Comic books

Trade paperbacks

Hard bound compilations

Treasury Editions

 

etc., etc.

 

Each its own entity.

 

We call horseless carriages cars now. My grandfather called them automobiles. Not many people still do. I can't remember when someone asked me "What kind of automobile do you drive?" I drive a car.

 

I collect comic books, treasuries, comic magazines, etc. Each one is a separate collection.

 

i bow down to all the experts here who know so much about what a comic book is not

 

Donenfeld and Liebowitz called their product comic magazines

 

The Comics Magazine Association of America

 

Call em what you want, i will call what i want, the third guy can call em what he wants

 

And the articles in Overstreet will continue calling em comic books cuz that is what they are

[BLBcomics-migration]

[quote did you notice OO has ROMAN NUMERALS for page counts? In AMERICA we use standard numbering. Yet reason # 10 that OO isn't an American comic.

 

Um, guess what?

 

That Obadiah was printed in America - New Yawk City

[Shield]

 

Exactly. Again, read my post about all the thing OO is missing that 99.9% of all true comic books do have. Staples, ads, word ballons, glossy covers, prices consistent with the times, color, etc. Saying these things hadn't been invented yet is just a convienient excuse.

 

Also, I can say with 99.9999% certainty that none of these illustrated pamphlets inspired anything produced post 1920. Usually if something is groundbreaking it wouldn't take another 3 generations (90 years) to emulate it, now would it?

Staples? you must be getting that from Bill Ponsetti

 

ads? try most any issues of Dell Comics,whoops, not comic books, eh?

 

word balloons? opinions may vary widely

 

glossy covers? awe, gee, it has to be varnished?

 

prices consistent with the times? Our bud Superman was fond of "What th...!@#@?

 

color? the dumbest thing i have read all day

 

so what if they did not "inspire anything after 1920" (your words,not mine)

 

- does that make them not comic strips, er, comic books, er, comic magazines, er, graphic novels, er, ah, trade paperbacks

 

Obadiah Oldbuck spawned a comic strip book market in the USA - period

 

- you have not read the history article in Overstreet spelling all this out

 

- if you did once, go back in read it again, quiz is on Tuesday

 

- continue onwards in hi-jacking this thread, ya'all

 

more power to you

 

um, you forgot word balloons in that scientific listing you made

 

 

Bob, bob, bob. I didn't say it was any single reason that I mentioned. I said it was the sum of the parts; the reason OO isn't a comic is because it doesn't have ANY of the above I mentioned. It has more characteristics of a newspaper than a comic book! And this nonsense about the idea of "sequential" panels. Like I said earlier, there are comics like Archie's Joke Book, Jughead's Jokes, etc. that are full of pages with single joke panels with absolutely no sequence to them whatsoever.

 

For my money, 99% of all comic books as we know them:

Have covers

Have staples

Have word balloons

Have advertisements

Have a cover price that is consistent with inflation

 

Bob, you have to admit there's simply too many of the key characteristics of all comic books printed in the last 75 years missing from OO.

 

Besides, you claim you've done all this research. Big whoop! You can't possibly know what's buried in every home in America. There could be similiar illustrated books printed in 1820 that just simply haven't been discovered yet. After all, OO has been known about since what, 1998? 8 short years in a history of a medium that spans (as you claim) 164 years! What happens when an illustrated pamphlet with Tippecanoe & Tyler too is found (1820's)? Don't be so cocksure it's the first anything. Perhaps it would require a bit more wisdom to say it MIGHT be the first illustrated comic strip publication in the United States. To say "It is FOR SURE the first comic book" assumes you've gone through every box with paper periodicals in the United States since 1776. You just don't know what's out there left to be discovered! Think of all the generations that have passed since the country was formed, and the knowledge that died along with them. How can you be so sure what still isn't out there left to be discovered?

 

All I see is a European-reprinted hand-stitched B&W book with illustrated pages that sold for .35 cents in 1842. Not a comic book.

[Shield]

did you notice OO has ROMAN NUMERALS for page counts? In AMERICA we use standard numbering. Yet reason # 10 that OO isn't an American comic.

Um, guess what?

 

That Obadiah was printed in America - New Yawk City

 

Did the original European copies use Roman Numerals?

[ciorac]

SSOC surely is a comics magazine

 

so is Superman #1

 

both are folded over wrap saddle stitched around flimsy pamphlets -

 

magazines with different height & width

 

 

Supey #1 is a comic book. And you know that. Stop debating semantics and make your case with facts that are supportable.

 

What things are called evolves over time. As a historian you know that. Comics have evolved, and separated into groups.

 

Magazines

Comic books

Trade paperbacks

Hard bound compilations

Treasury Editions

 

etc., etc.

 

Each its own entity.

 

We call horseless carriages cars now. My grandfather called them automobiles. Not many people still do. I can't remember when someone asked me "What kind of automobile do you drive?" I drive a car.

 

I collect comic books, treasuries, comic magazines, etc. Each one is a separate collection.

 

i bow down to all the experts here who know so much about what a comic book is not

 

Donenfeld and Liebowitz called their product comic magazines

 

The Comics Magazine Association of America

 

Call em what you want, i will call what i want, the third guy can call em what he wants

 

And the articles in Overstreet will continue calling em comic books cuz that is what they are

 

There you go skimming a post again. Try reading it once in while. I SAID THAT THEY CALLED THEM MAGAZINES BACK IN THE GOLDEN AGE HARD HEAD!!! By way of an analogy how the nomenclature has evolved, much the way the english language has evolved. Or perhaps you hadn't noticed?

 

Now, we call them comic books and have for about 40 years. We also call comic magazines -- comic magazines! Treasuries --- treasuries! Graphic novels -- graphic novels!!

 

I have yet to say that OO is not a comic book, unequivocably. I said when I get the reprint from you I will READ it, and make my own judgement. The format of the reprint, at least from the cover you posted here looks to be repackaged from the way it was released. So I am not sure that it will help guide me as much as you would like it to.

 

The point I have been trying to make to you, but you refuse to listen, so I don't know why I am bothering, is that everything with comic material in it is NOT a comic book. Now matter how much you want it to be, it isn't.

 

Period.

 

 

Bob, I always pay homage to the amount of work you have put in uncovering all this history. I applaud it, you know that. I have said in this thread numerous times that you are one of the most knolwedgeable guys in this field. But you are wrong here, just like you are wrong in trying to say that any other comic book other than Action #1 is the most important book in comic book history. Everything prior to Action #1 is a footnote at best.

 

If your agenda is to get things right and put them in some order and perspective than please do so. If it is to create a market for the product you are attempting to elevate in importance then shame on you. I sincerely hope not, but I am running out of logical explanations for you illogical behavior.

 

You can still do your research, inform the comic collecting community of its origins and maintain some credibility. However that credibility is going to erode if you keep beating the drum saying things like "everything is a comic" "Action #1 is not the most important comic book in history". That is just foolishness and the nonsensical ravings of a ....a.... I don't know what at this point.

 

Bob, I am a scientist, I deal in logic, order and provable theories. Yours meet none of that criteria.

[Shield]

SSOC surely is a comics magazine

 

so is Superman #1

 

both are folded over wrap saddle stitched around flimsy pamphlets -

 

magazines with different height & width

 

 

Supey #1 is a comic book. And you know that. Stop debating semantics and make your case with facts that are supportable.

 

What things are called evolves over time. As a historian you know that. Comics have evolved, and separated into groups.

 

Magazines

Comic books

Trade paperbacks

Hard bound compilations

Treasury Editions

 

etc., etc.

 

Each its own entity.

 

We call horseless carriages cars now. My grandfather called them automobiles. Not many people still do. I can't remember when someone asked me "What kind of automobile do you drive?" I drive a car.

 

I collect comic books, treasuries, comic magazines, etc. Each one is a separate collection.

 

i bow down to all the experts here who know so much about what a comic book is not

 

Donenfeld and Liebowitz called their product comic magazines

 

The Comics Magazine Association of America

 

Call em what you want, i will call what i want, the third guy can call em what he wants

 

And the articles in Overstreet will continue calling em comic books cuz that is what they are

 

There you go skimming a post again. Try reading it once in while. I SAID THAT THEY CALLED THEM MAGAZINES BACK IN THE GOLDEN AGE HARD HEAD!!! By way of an analogy how the nomenclature has evolved, much the way the english language has evolved. Or perhaps you hadn't noticed?

 

Now, we call them comic books and have for about 40 years. We also call comic magazines -- comic magazines! Treasuries --- treasuries! Graphic novels -- graphic novels!!

 

I have yet to say that OO is not a comic book, unequivocably. I said when I get the reprint from you I will READ it, and make my own judgement. The format of the reprint, at least from the cover you posted here looks to be repackaged from the way it was released. So I am not sure that it will help guide me as much as you would like it to.

 

The point I have been trying to make to you, but you refuse to listen, so I don't know why I am bothering, is that everything with comic material in it is NOT a comic book. Now matter how much you want it to be, it isn't.

 

Period.

 

 

Bob, I always pay homage to the amount of work you have put in uncovering all this history. I applaud it, you know that. I have said in this thread numerous times that you are one of the most knolwedgeable guys in this field. But you are wrong here, just like you are wrong in trying to say that any other comic book other than Action #1 is the most important book in comic book history. Everything prior to Action #1 is a footnote at best.

 

If your agenda is to get things right and put them in some order and perspective than please do so. If it is to create a market for the product you are attempting to elevate in importance then shame on you. I sincerely hope not, but I am running out of logical explanations for you illogical behavior.

 

You can still do your research, inform the comic collecting community of its origins and maintain some credibility. However that credibility is going to erode if you keep beating the drum saying things like "everything is a comic" "Action #1 is not the most important comic book in history". That is just foolishness and the nonsensical ravings of a ....a.... I don't know what at this point.

 

Bob, I am a scientist, I deal in logic, order and provable theories. Yours meet none of that criteria.

 

[esquirecomics]

The History of Comic Books

From Mary Bellis,

 

Fuel, when was this book published?

[BLBcomics-migration]

 

Exactly. Again, read my post about all the thing OO is missing that 99.9% of all true comic books do have. Staples, ads, word ballons, glossy covers, prices consistent with the times, color, etc. Saying these things hadn't been invented yet is just a convienient excuse.

 

Also, I can say with 99.9999% certainty that none of these illustrated pamphlets inspired anything produced post 1920. Usually if something is groundbreaking it wouldn't take another 3 generations (90 years) to emulate it, now would it?

Staples? you must be getting that from Bill Ponsetti

 

ads? try most any issues of Dell Comics,whoops, not comic books, eh?

 

word balloons? opinions may vary widely

 

glossy covers? awe, gee, it has to be varnished?

 

prices consistent with the times? Our bud Superman was fond of "What th...!@#@?

 

color? the dumbest thing i have read all day

 

so what if they did not "inspire anything after 1920" (your words,not mine)

 

- does that make them not comic strips, er, comic books, er, comic magazines, er, graphic novels, er, ah, trade paperbacks

 

Obadiah Oldbuck spawned a comic strip book market in the USA - period

 

- you have not read the history article in Overstreet spelling all this out

 

- if you did once, go back in read it again, quiz is on Tuesday

 

- continue onwards in hi-jacking this thread, ya'all

 

more power to you

 

um, you forgot word balloons in that scientific listing you made

 

 

Bob, bob, bob. I didn't say it was any single reason that I mentioned. I said it was the sum of the parts; the reason OO isn't a comic is because it doesn't have ANY of the above I mentioned. It has more characteristics of a newspaper than a comic book! And this nonsense about the idea of "sequential" panels. Like I said earlier, there are comics like Archie's Joke Book, Jughead's Jokes, etc. that are full of pages with single joke panels with absolutely no sequence to them whatsoever.

 

For my money, 99% of all comic books as we know them:

Have covers

Have staples

Have word balloons

Have advertisements

Have a cover price that is consistent with inflation

 

Bob, you have to admit there's simply too many of the key characteristics of all comic books printed in the last 75 years missing from OO.

 

Besides, you claim you've done all this research. Big whoop! You can't possibly know what's buried in every home in America. There could be similiar illustrated books printed in 1820 that just simply haven't been discovered yet. After all, OO has been known about since what, 1998? 8 short years in a history of a medium that spans (as you claim) 164 years! What happens when an illustrated pamphlet with Tippecanoe & Tyler too is found (1820's)? Don't be so cocksure it's the first anything. Perhaps it would require a bit more wisdom to say it MIGHT be the first illustrated comic strip publication in the United States. To say "It is FOR SURE the first comic book" assumes you've gone through every box with paper periodicals in the United States since 1776. You just don't know what's out there left to be discovered! Think of all the generations that have passed since the country was formed, and the knowledge that died along with them. How can you be so sure what still isn't out there left to be discovered?

 

All I see is a European-reprinted hand-stitched B&W book with illustrated pages that sold for .35 cents in 1842. Not a comic book.

 

I agree 100% with you on the 99%

 

it is that pesky 1% what got my curiosity piqued to hunt one down, and discovered a whole wide world of comic books which most of us knew very little about.

 

You are misguided if you think Obadiah Oldbuck has only been known sine 1998

 

That is merely the year i got my first copy

 

I have been to all the major holdings since i discovered my personal copy in 1998

 

I have hunted down a wealth of knowledge gleaned from many many sources, university, city library holdings like in New York, antiquarian societies,

 

My resource library is many hundreds of history volumes, many distributor trade journals

 

sequential story telling artwork - think outside the box of the Famous Funnies model - not single panel i do not know why you brought up single panel joke books - all that does is cloud the issue

 

The old comic books of yesteryear are all well documented - just not in super hero land which is what comics fandom mainly is.

 

One good place for people to start is picking up A HISTORY OF AMERICAN GRAPHIC HUMOR by William Murrell, 1933 was 1750-1865 and 1938 #2 covers 1865-1938 - and mentions by name all kinds of comic books and magazines with comic strips in them.

 

Obadiah Oldbuck is mentioned in there as well as a major chapter in Gombrich's ART AND ILLUSION 1960, comprising his series of 1956 Smithsonian Institution lectures he gave, one being on Topffer and his first comic strip books

 

I have already scanned and posted covers and info to all kinds of other history books with info on the comics field - and i listed many other resource aids in the tail end of each Vict and Plat price index until this year when new comic book listings crowded out the space filler

 

I know what is NOT out there waiting to be discovered pre-1842 that is a comic book, in a word, nada, another word is zip. The evolution of the printing technology was not here in America yet.

 

and on an end note - i wonder how many people here are getting the wonderful Fantagraphics Krazy Kat double year reprint volumes - one of the greatest comic strips of all time, sheer poetry, in comic books perfect bound (pretend it's format is Superman Annual #1, sheesh, not directed at anybody in particular)

[Shield]

 

Exactly. Again, read my post about all the thing OO is missing that 99.9% of all true comic books do have. Staples, ads, word ballons, glossy covers, prices consistent with the times, color, etc. Saying these things hadn't been invented yet is just a convienient excuse.

 

Also, I can say with 99.9999% certainty that none of these illustrated pamphlets inspired anything produced post 1920. Usually if something is groundbreaking it wouldn't take another 3 generations (90 years) to emulate it, now would it?

Staples? you must be getting that from Bill Ponsetti

 

ads? try most any issues of Dell Comics,whoops, not comic books, eh?

 

word balloons? opinions may vary widely

 

glossy covers? awe, gee, it has to be varnished?

 

prices consistent with the times? Our bud Superman was fond of "What th...!@#@?

 

color? the dumbest thing i have read all day

 

so what if they did not "inspire anything after 1920" (your words,not mine)

 

- does that make them not comic strips, er, comic books, er, comic magazines, er, graphic novels, er, ah, trade paperbacks

 

Obadiah Oldbuck spawned a comic strip book market in the USA - period

 

- you have not read the history article in Overstreet spelling all this out

 

- if you did once, go back in read it again, quiz is on Tuesday

 

- continue onwards in hi-jacking this thread, ya'all

 

more power to you

 

um, you forgot word balloons in that scientific listing you made

 

 

Bob, bob, bob. I didn't say it was any single reason that I mentioned. I said it was the sum of the parts; the reason OO isn't a comic is because it doesn't have ANY of the above I mentioned. It has more characteristics of a newspaper than a comic book! And this nonsense about the idea of "sequential" panels. Like I said earlier, there are comics like Archie's Joke Book, Jughead's Jokes, etc. that are full of pages with single joke panels with absolutely no sequence to them whatsoever.

 

For my money, 99% of all comic books as we know them:

Have covers

Have staples

Have word balloons

Have advertisements

Have a cover price that is consistent with inflation

 

Bob, you have to admit there's simply too many of the key characteristics of all comic books printed in the last 75 years missing from OO.

 

Besides, you claim you've done all this research. Big whoop! You can't possibly know what's buried in every home in America. There could be similiar illustrated books printed in 1820 that just simply haven't been discovered yet. After all, OO has been known about since what, 1998? 8 short years in a history of a medium that spans (as you claim) 164 years! What happens when an illustrated pamphlet with Tippecanoe & Tyler too is found (1820's)? Don't be so cocksure it's the first anything. Perhaps it would require a bit more wisdom to say it MIGHT be the first illustrated comic strip publication in the United States. To say "It is FOR SURE the first comic book" assumes you've gone through every box with paper periodicals in the United States since 1776. You just don't know what's out there left to be discovered! Think of all the generations that have passed since the country was formed, and the knowledge that died along with them. How can you be so sure what still isn't out there left to be discovered?

 

All I see is a European-reprinted hand-stitched B&W book with illustrated pages that sold for .35 cents in 1842. Not a comic book.

 

I agree 100% with you on the 99%

 

it is that pesky 1% what got my curiosity piqued to hunt one down, and discovered a whole wide world of comic books which most of us knew very little about.

 

You are misguided if you think Obadiah Oldbuck has only been known sine 1998

 

That is merely the year i got my first copy

 

I have been to all the major holdings since i discovered my personal copy in 1998

 

I have hunted down a wealth of knowledge gleaned from many many sources, university, city library holdings like in New York, antiquarian societies,

 

My resource library is many hundreds of history volumes, many distributor trade journals

 

sequential story telling artwork - think outside the box of the Famous Funnies model - not single panel i do not know why you brought up single panel joke books - all that does is cloud the issue

 

The old comic books of yesteryear are all well documented - just not in super hero land which is what comics fandom mainly is.

 

One good place for people to start is picking up A HISTORY OF AMERICAN GRAPHIC HUMOR by William Murrell, 1933 was 1750-1865 and 1938 #2 covers 1865-1938 - and mentions by name all kinds of comic books and magazines with comic strips in them.

 

Obadiah Oldbuck is mentioned in there as well as a major chapter in Gombrich's ART AND ILLUSION 1960, comprising his series of 1956 Smithsonian Institution lectures he gave, one being on Topffer and his first comic strip books

 

I have already scanned and posted covers and info to all kinds of other history books with info on the comics field - and i listed many other resource aids in the tail end of each Vict and Plat price index until this year when new comic book listings crowded out the space filler

 

I know what is NOT out there waiting to be discovered pre-1842 that is a comic book, in a word, nada, another word is zip. The evolution of the printing technology was not here in America yet.

 

and on an end note - i wonder how many people here are getting the wonderful Fantagraphics Krazy Kat double year reprint volumes - one of the greatest comic strips of all time, sheer poetry, in comic books perfect bound (pretend it's format is Superman Annual #1, sheesh, not directed at anybody in particular)

 

 

Bob, I got the 1998 from this scoop article:

 

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/scoop_article.asp?ai=2808&si=124

 

 

Then another year goes by. It is now early 1998.

I eventually get an email from a lady in Oakland, California, who had been searching thru Usenet's "Deja Vu" email archive and discovered my name, asking me if I might be interested in a copy, which had been in her family for six generations.

 

According to what her grandfather told her before he died, her great-great-great-great grandfather had bought it in Indiana in 1849 and brought out to California during the initial Gold Rush, which brought millions to America to seek their fortune.

 

It had been in her family all these decades. Indeed, her grandfather had written her a letter which read in part, "Take care of this. It is the first comic book published in America."

 

Was I interested?

 

I quickly asked her for her phone number, called it, and worked out a price for this unknown treasure from a murky past I then knew almost nothing about.

 

I knew beforehand that this first copy I acquired was lacking its outer paper wrap, rendering the cover, the first page and the last two pages of the story missing. It looked like it had been run over by Forty-Niner wagon wheels and possibly pissed on by a horse. But it was mine and I read it and I was astounded by its complexity. I decided this was a comic book.

The first comic book in America. And it was from 1842.

 

If your argument is you (or others) knew about the 1842 version of OO before 1998, then I guess based on this article I'm confused.

[BLBcomics-migration]

SSOC surely is a comics magazine

 

Bob, I always pay homage to the amount of work you have put in uncovering all this history. I applaud it, you know that. I have said in this thread numerous times that you are one of the most knolwedgeable guys in this field. But you are wrong here, just like you are wrong in trying to say that any other comic book other than Action #1 is the most important book in comic book history. Everything prior to Action #1 is a footnote at best.

 

If your agenda is to get things right and put them in some order and perspective than please do so. If it is to create a market for the product you are attempting to elevate in importance then shame on you. I sincerely hope not, but I am running out of logical explanations for you illogical behavior.

 

You can still do your research, inform the comic collecting community of its origins and maintain some credibility. However that credibility is going to erode if you keep beating the drum saying things like "everything is a comic" "Action #1 is not the most important comic book in history". That is just foolishness and the nonsensical ravings of a ....a.... I don't know what at this point.

 

Bob, I am a scientist, I deal in logic, order and provable theories. Yours meet none of that criteria.

 

You are all welcome to what you want to be a comic book

 

Bill, Bill, your 2nd sentence of second paragraph hist the nub why i keep at this stupid thread debating what every person here has a different idea of what constitutes a comic book.

 

 

To wit: if i have an agenda to ".....market a product...."

 

You are wrong and anybody you truly knows me would not even state such a falsehood, so, you think you know me, but, in reality, no you do not

 

i have repeated myself quote a few times stating i do have worked up those sections for the love of the art field - the money is secondary with reagards to this research

 

I was REQUESTED to contribute the history articles to the guide by John Snyder back in Oct 1996 for inclusion in the 1997 #27 Guide and have been building it ever since.

 

I have not said every thing is a (sequential) comic (strip book), which is what other peanut gallery persons have been spouting off here. There is plenty which is not a comic book with zero sequential story telling going on inside the product

 

Superman is definitely one of the most important icons ever created

 

is Action #1 the pinnacle of comic book collecting?

 

I do not think so

 

Some of us are not hung up on super heroes to have blinders so huge as to preclude examining the entire body of evidence out there

 

Some of illogical behavior is showing up here as i answer the fool in harlem who is having so much fun he is beside himself - i come down to his level to communicate and post stuff as stupid as his is - and on that note, i will ignore it from now on

 

Your logic baffles me immensely

 

- you have admittedly not examined the evidence,

 

and it is overwhelmingly huge on top of the 1842 Obadiah Oldbuck

 

There are many 1000s of strips in 100s of publications all thru the 1800s before YK shows up on the set.

 

You have a LOT more research to conduct before you can even think about having an informed opinion, much less getting into theory concepts

 

Some of you guys are like a bunch of blind men feeling up different parts of an elephant

[Shield]

is Action #1 the pinnacle of comic book collecting?

 

I do not think so

 

Well then you'd be wrong, just like OO being a comic book. I can't believe you'd make the above statement. Superman is a FRANCHISE; has launched movies, toys, lunch boxes, and spawned millions of imitators. The first appearance of this character IS the pinnacle of comic book collecting. I can't honestly believe this is what you've come up with after all your research.

 

Does ANYONE agree with the statement from BOB? How about you, showcase-4, holder of multiple OO's? Is Action #1 the pinnacle of comic collecting?

[BLBcomics-migration]

 

 

 

Bob, I got the 1998 from this scoop article:

 

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/scoop_article.asp?ai=2808&si=124

 

 

Then another year goes by. It is now early 1998.

I eventually get an email from a lady in Oakland, California, who had been searching thru Usenet's "Deja Vu" email archive and discovered my name, asking me if I might be interested in a copy, which had been in her family for six generations.

 

According to what her grandfather told her before he died, her great-great-great-great grandfather had bought it in Indiana in 1849 and brought out to California during the initial Gold Rush, which brought millions to America to seek their fortune.

 

It had been in her family all these decades. Indeed, her grandfather had written her a letter which read in part, "Take care of this. It is the first comic book published in America."

 

Was I interested?

 

I quickly asked her for her phone number, called it, and worked out a price for this unknown treasure from a murky past I then knew almost nothing about.

 

I knew beforehand that this first copy I acquired was lacking its outer paper wrap, rendering the cover, the first page and the last two pages of the story missing. It looked like it had been run over by Forty-Niner wagon wheels and possibly pissed on by a horse. But it was mine and I read it and I was astounded by its complexity. I decided this was a comic book.

The first comic book in America. And it was from 1842.

 

If your argument is you (or others) knew about the 1842 version of OO before 1998, then I guess based on this article I'm confused.

 

Now i understand, and may i say that most of that stuff in scoop is not written by the person who submits it - it is re-written and words get altered.

 

Now, yes, I, lowly Robert Beerbohm, comics junkie like the rest of you, learned about Obdadiah Oldbuck's existence in 1997, got my first one in 1998, made my first announcement of it in OPG #29, and was allowed to run art from it in OPG #30

 

HOWEVER, as i conducted research on it for the next half decade, i was also astounded to learn of all the places one can find mention of Rodolphe Topffer and Obadiah Oldbuck as well as RT's other comic books

 

Topffer's comic books are well known in many circles outside of super hero comic book fandom

 

YOU GUYS are the hold outs

 

Super heroes do not run the wagon of the vast majority of the comics world

 

Sacrilege to say, but it is the truth and factual - total Spock logic

 

Just because i learned of it in 1998 does not mean others before me, before any one reading this thread, did not already know, and had written and researched it already

 

The info i present in the Victorian History articles, for that matter all three of the most concise USA comics history lesson on the face of the planet, does not come out of thin air -

 

whenever possible, and that is is most cases and at tremendous expense on my part as i conducted my research for myself and chose to share some of the data in OPG and elsewhere, along with research data from a lot of friends, of which no one on this thread has enough knowledge or wherewithall to hunt this stuff down is part of that comic book collecting friend circle, who contribute to the guide every year.

 

90% of the work is done - i know what the big picture is now

 

I just do not have enough room in OPG to present all the data

 

That will only come with reprint books so people can see at least the cream of the crop from by-gone eras of comic strip books and magazines with comic strips in them

[BLBcomics-migration]

is Action #1 the pinnacle of comic book collecting?

 

I do not think so

 

Well then you'd be wrong, just like OO being a comic book. I can't believe you'd make the above statement. Superman is a FRANCHISE; has launched movies, toys, lunch boxes, and spawned millions of imitators. The first appearance of this character IS the pinnacle of comic book collecting. I can't honestly believe this is what you've come up with after all your research.

 

Does ANYONE agree with the statement from BOB? How about you, showcase-4, holder of multiple OO's? Is Action #1 the pinnacle of comic collecting?

 

let Action #1 be YOUR pinnacle,

it can be Bill Ponsetti's pinnacle,

it can be any one here's pinnacle who wants it to be so

 

i do not care in that super heroes do not run even most of my collecting world

 

They are a subset of the comics i enjoy

 

I also sell a lot of super hero comics, as well as buy a lot week in week out when i have the money to do so

 

yes, Superman is a franchise - a billion dollar one at that

 

It is about comic books and strips we speak of, right?

 

it ain't about wrong

 

It has to do with personal interest.

 

And i knew going into this Victorian and Platinum expansion in OPG that the back lash would well up from time to time

 

it did a few years back in the pages of CBG Oh So letters column

 

Is Action #1 the most expensive?

 

sure as them bears doing what they do in the woods

 

Does that make it the most important?

 

that is a different ball of wax