Bronze CGC values could be destroyed by this warehouse find

[dekeuk]

 

One of ebay's largest dealers is selling an uncirculated warehouse find of 25,000 late 1970's comics. Here is the auction:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/25-000-Comic-Collect...oQQcmdZViewItem

 

So if you thought your CGC 9.8 copy of Amazing Spider-Man #166 was rare, think again, there might be hundreds of them. This will destroy a lot of CGC value on certain issues.

 

Here is the complete list of comics that will be affected by this latest warehosue find of 25,000 comics:

 

2001: A Space Odyssey #1

2001: A Space Odyssey #2

2001: A Space Odyssey #3

2001: A Space Odyssey #4

2001: A Space Odyssey #5

2001: A Space Odyssey #6

Action Comics #464

Action Comics #465

Adventure Comics #447

Adventure Comics #450

Amazing Adventures #39

Amazing Spider-Man #166

Amazing Spider-Man #167

Amazing Spider-Man #168

Amazing Spider-Man #189

Avengers #152

Avengers #153

Avengers #154

Avengers #155

Avengers #157

Avengers #158

Avengers #159

Avengers #160

Batman #282

Batman Family #10

Batman Family #11

Batman Family #8

Black Goliath #5

Black Panther #2

Black Panther #3

Captain America #200

Captain America #201

Captain America #202

Captain America #203

Captain America #204

Captain America #207

Captain America #208

Captain America #209

Captain America #210

Captain Marvel #47

Captain Marvel #49

Chamber Of Chills #24

Chamber Of Chills #25

Champions #10

Champions #11

Champions #12

Champions #13

Champions #8

Champions #9

Conan #67

Conan #68

Conan #69

Conan #70

Conan #71

Conan #72

Conan #73

Conan #75

Conan #77

Conan #85

Daredevil #139

Daredevil #141

Daredevil #142

Daredevil #143

Daredevil #144

Daredevil #145

Daredevil #146

DC Super-Stars Presents #12

DC Super-Stars Presents #13

Defenders #38

Defenders #39

Defenders #40

Defenders #41

Defenders #45

Defenders #46

Defenders #48

Doctor Strange #18

Doctor Strange #19

Doctor Strange #20

Doctor Strange #21

Doctor Strange #23

Enemy Ace #26

Eternals #10

Eternals #3

Eternals #5

Eternals #6

Eternals #7

Eternals #8

Eternals #9

Fantastic Four #177

Fantastic Four #178

Fantastic Four #179

Fantastic Four #180

Fantastic Four #181

Fantastic Four #200

Fantastic Four #205

Fantastic Four #208

Freedom Fighters #7

Fun & Games #2

Fun & Games #6

Fun & Games #7

Ghost Rider #20

Ghost Rider #24

GI Combat #196

GI Combat #201

Hanna-Barbera's Laff-A-Lympics #3

House Of Mystery #252

Howard The Duck #12

Howard The Duck #23

Howard The Duck #6

Howard The Duck #7

Incredible Hulk #209

Incredible Hulk #210

Incredible Hulk #212

Incredible Hulk #7

Inhumans #10

Inhumans #11

Inhumans #8

Invaders #10

Invaders #13

Invaders #15

Invaders #17

Invaders #9

Iron Fist #12

Iron Fist #13

Iron Fist #7

Iron Fist #8

Iron Fist #9

Iron Man #91

Iron Man #92

Iron Man #94

Iron Man #96

Iron Man #97

Iron Man #98

Iron Man #99

Justice League of America #139

Justice League of America #140

Justice League of America #142

Justice League of America #143

Ka-Zar #19

Ka-Zar #20

Kid Colt Outlaw #211

Kid Colt Outlaw #213

Kid Colt Outlaw #215

Kid Colt Outlaw #216

Kid Colt Outlaw #217

Kid Colt Outlaw #218

Kull #16

Kull #17

Kull #18

Kull #19

Kull #20

Kull #25

Kull #27

Kull #6

Logan's Run #3

Logan's Run #4

Machine Man #2

Machine Man #4

Marvel Chillers #6

Marvel Chillers #7

Marvel Classics #14

Marvel Classics #15

Marvel Classics #16

Marvel Classics #18

Marvel Double Feature #18

Marvel Double Feature #19

Marvel Double Feature #20

Marvel Double Feature #21

Marvel Feature #7

Marvel Premiere #31

Marvel Premiere #33

Marvel Premiere #34

Marvel Premiere #35

Marvel Presents #10

Marvel Presents #9

Marvel Spotlight #30

Marvel Spotlight #31

Marvel Spotlight #33

Marvel Super Action #1

Marvel Super Heroes #60

Marvel Super Heroes #61

Marvel Super Heroes #62

Marvel Super Heroes #63

Marvel Super Heroes #64

Marvel Tales #70

Marvel Tales #72

Marvel Tales #73

Marvel Tales #74

Marvel Tales #75

Marvel Tales #76

Marvel Tales #77

Marvel Tales #78

Marvel Tales #80

Marvel Tales #91

Marvel Team-Up #48

Marvel Team-Up #55

Marvel Team-Up #56

Marvel Team-Up #57

Marvel Team-Up #69

Marvel Triple Action #32

Marvel Triple Action #33

Marvel Triple Action #34

Marvel Two-In-One #21

Marvel's Greatest Comics #66

Marvel's Greatest Comics #67

Marvel's Greatest Comics #68

Master Of Kung Fu #44

Master Of Kung Fu #45

Master Of Kung Fu #46

Master Of Kung Fu #47

Master Of Kung Fu #51

Master Of Kung Fu #51

Master Of Kung Fu #52

Master Of Kung Fu #53

Master Of Kung Fu #64

Ms. Marvel #17

Ms. Marvel #3

Ms. Marvel #6

Nova #2

Nova #3

Nova #4

Nova #8

Omega #7

Planet Of The Apes #10

Planet Of The Apes #11

Planet Of The Apes #9

Powerman #36

Powerman #37

Powerman #38

Powerman #41

Powerman #42

Rawhide Kid #128

Rawhide Kid #135

Rawhide Kid #136

Rawhide Kid #138

Rawhide Kid #139

Red Sonja #1

Red Sonja #2

Ringo Kid #29

Ringo Kid #30

Sgt. Fury #136

Sgt. Fury #137

Sgt. Fury #138

Sgt. Fury #139

Sgt. Fury #140

Son Of Satan #6

Son Of Satan #7

Son Of Satan #8

Spectacular Spider-Man #4

Spectacular Spider-Man #5

Spectacular Spider-Man #6

Spidey Super Stories #20

Spidey Super Stories #21

Spidey Super Stories #22

Starfire #2

Starfire #4

Strange Tales #187

Strange Tales #188

Super Villain Team-Up #10

Super Villain Team-Up #11

Super Villain Team-Up #12

Super Villain Team-Up #8

Super Villain Team-Up #9

Superboy & Legion Of Super-Heroes #220

Superboy & Legion Of Super-Heroes #225

Superman Family #180 Giant

Superman Family #181 Giant

Superteam Family Giant #10

Superteam Family Giant #18

Superteam Family Giant #19

Thor #200

Thor #251

Thor #252

Thor #255

Thor #256

Thor #257

Thor #258

Thor #259

Tomb Of Darkness #23

Tomb Of Dracula #51

Tomb Of Dracula #52

Tomb Of Dracula #53

Tomb Of Dracula #54

Tomb Of Dracula #55

Tomb Of Dracula #56

Tomb Of Dracula #57

Two-Gun Kid #133

Two-Gun Kid #134

Two-Gun Kid #135

Two-Gun Kid #136

Weird Wonder Tales #19

Weird Wonder Tales #20

Weird Wonder Tales #21

Weird Wonder Tales #22

Werewolf By Night #41

Werewolf By Night #42

Werewolf By Night #43

What If #1

World's Finest #241

World's Finest #242

World's Finest #244

Young Love #123

Young Love #124

Young Love #125

[THE_BEYONDER]

Ghost Rider #20

 

I was wondering where all the NM copies were....

[Stronguy]

If I'm not mistaken many of these books made their way into Marvel Multi-Packs.

[AussieRuss]

Hello Dekeuk.

 

Nice books.

 

This type of conversation has been had a few times in the past.

Sure the books are in high grade but high grade is one thing, CGC 9.8 is another and should not be used with the same broad brush..

 

This occasion may be different but here is a few comments I have in relation to your statement.

 

A. Looking at the scans shown in the auction listing I don't see much that I would call 9.8 without seeing better scans. They are beautiful books but the slightest crease or rounding drops it out of the 9.8 zone. If you think that there may be hundreds of them why not post a scan of a few dozen.

 

B. People on the boards have discussed opening full boxes of brand new comics in the past. The results come back with a few CGC 9.0 books, lots of CGC 9.2 or 9.4 books. A few 9.6 books and few few CGC 9.8 books.

 

CGC 9.8 books are not overly common even stright of the presses. Boxes are tossed around and pass through many hands before seeing the end user.

 

I will be very suprised to see your comments become reality but I do think that some CGC 9.8 books will come out of this.

 

BTW welcome to the boards.

 

Russ...

[dekeuk]

 

I think some if the replies are missing my point. Sure, who really cares if a few more Ghost Riders are discovered. But these are from 1977, so what happens when someone finds a warehouse from the 1970 to 1975 era. If you found a 1975 warehouse find it might be loaded with X-men #94 to 110 and other comics from that era.

 

Sure, they won't all be 9.8, but if they were uncirculated, and there are hundreds of copies of each issue, there would be many 9.4, 9.6 and some 9.8 in each stack.

 

All I am saying is that before you invest thousands in some 1970's comic, thinking it will be only 1 of 3 known 9.8 copies in existance, think again. There might be dozens more out there in a warehouse.

 

Like the guy on ebay that paid $3000 for a Daredevil #168 in CGC 9.8. That comic is not that old, you just know someone is going to find an unopened case of those one of these days. This auction proves old stuff is still being found from the last 30 years.

[AussieRuss]

I understand what you are trying to get at.

 

I will say that one thing that does impress me is when a warehouse find is uncovered.

 

How many warehouses can there be containing untouched 1970's comic books.

 

If there were 1000 warehouses that held comics in the USA how many of them were left with untouched stock for the last 30 years.

 

Even if we put a high figure of 1% on this that would mean that there is 10 warehouses with untouched stock from 30 years ago.

 

Now out of those 10 warehoused how many are left with perfect condition undamaged, non rained on or affected by acid producing forklift soot or 1000 other things that can go wrong with a comic conditions.

 

This to me is the amazing part of any warehouse find even if the books are mid grade at best.

[awe4one]

I understand what you are trying to get at.

 

I will say that one thing that does impress me is when a warehouse find is uncovered.

 

How many warehouses can there be containing untouched 1970's comic books.

 

If there were 1000 warehouses that held comics in the USA how many of them were left with untouched stock for the last 30 years.

 

Even if we put a high figure of 1% on this that would mean that there is 10 warehouses with untouched stock from 30 years ago.

 

Now out of those 10 warehoused how many are left with perfect condition undamaged, non rained on or affected by acid producing forklift soot or 1000 other things that can go wrong with a comic conditions.

 

This to me is the amazing part of any warehouse find even if the books are mid grade at best.

 

I think the point you're missing is these warehouse finds have continuely sprung up over the years. The fact they are still being found makes one think there are many others out there. They may not be all high grade examples but they are out there...and who knows if one or two of them are indeed full of untouched pristine comics...

 

That doesn't include those in collections that have never seen the light of day...and even been considered for the trip to Sarasota...

 

Jim

[Timulty]

Potentially, all 1000 warehouses could have had books sitting from from the 60's-80's, if a batch of books gets tucked away and the inventory system(mostly pen and paper during this time) is inaccurate or just plain inept. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if another warehouse find of 40's and 50's books gets found in the next 5 years. The warehouses are large and it is easy to tuck away a pallet or 2 of books and never really find them unless a comprehensive inventory is done. Now as to the condition of the books, I agree the page quality might not be so hot. But there is still the possibility of finding pristine books due to the possibility that the books were stack in a relatively protective manner.

[drbanner]

I think some if the replies are missing my point. Sure, who really cares if a few more Ghost Riders are discovered. But these are from 1977, so what happens when someone finds a warehouse from the 1970 to 1975 era. If you found a 1975 warehouse find it might be loaded with X-men #94 to 110 and other comics from that era.

 

It's fairly obvious right now, but I can only imagine the discrepancy between the scarcity (relative term) of HG books (9.4+) between pre-1975 and post-1975 books is going to grow even more in the future. Direct distribution, the OS price guides, the growth of the back issue industry, and the availability of preservation supplies meant that by the mid to late 70's, many collectors were probably storing their books properly right after purchasing them, if not boarded/bagged then at least put safely in a box, closet, or drawer. I can only imagine there weren't nearly as many people doing this in the early part of the decade.

[joe_collector]

so what happens when someone finds a warehouse from the 1970 to 1975 era. If you found a 1975 warehouse find it might be loaded with X-men #94 to 110 and other comics from that era.

 

Already happened, a few times over, and in one notable case, there were some CGC 9.4-9.6 copies that came out of it. A lot haven't even been graded yet, including everything I bought and probably most of what Jim has.

 

I think everyone realizes that the entire BA high-grade market is going to melt down in the long run, but are having fun while it lasts.

[RaccoonRaccoon]

Wow.. I am always intrigued by hearing about warehouse finds! Anyone know other warehouse stories?? I would really enjoy hearing them!

[the blob]

those are virtually all books I see TONS of in bargain bins already, even some of the spideys (what's the GPA on any of those issues?). Spideys are not so much impacted by census numbers. Seriously, how many slabbed copies of 200, 252 and 300 are there? a billion? and i've already been seeing (and buying) warehousesque sales of several of those issues (none were 9.8s, at least by the time they got shipped to me, poorly packaged, but many were likely NM before they were shipped to me). really nothing there that should be more than a bucks anyway, and if you paid $100 for a CGC 9.8 of any of them, SHAME ON YOU!!! the 25-50 cents each they're going to sell for is about right in bulk. Pick out the real pristine copies (and there will likely be fewer than you expect) and the rest get blown out as dollar (or maybe two dollar) books at shows.

[the blob]

more than a [FEW] bucks anyway

[shadroch]

Of all the issues listed,the only ones I'd think will be affected at all are the Romance books. The rest are common and generally not in demand to begin with.

[joe_collector]

Sure, but you gotta know they also found a lot of key and sem-key issues that are either at CGC or being sold off separately.

 

Iron Fist 14 and 15 are two of the most obvious.

[Sal]

i dunno, most of those books are from Aug / Oct 76 to May / June 1977. if they were going to cherrypick IF 14 & 15 out of the lot, then they did a darn good job of disguising the find

[joe_collector]

i dunno, most of those books are from Aug / Oct 76 to May / June 1977.

 

Well, where are the X-Men then?

[shadroch]

Sure, but you gotta know they also found a lot of key and sem-key issues that are either at CGC or being sold off separately.

 

Iron Fist 14 and 15 are two of the most obvious.

 

Its quite possible,likely even. But they had the good sense not to announce it and will bring those books out slowly so they don't kill the market.Say what you want about NeatStuff but MC has been around along time and knows how to work a deal.

[finecomics]

Where are the price variants

[the blob]

"Like the guy on ebay that paid $3000 for a Daredevil #168 in CGC 9.8. That comic is not that old, you just know someone is going to find an unopened case of those one of these days. This auction proves old stuff is still being found from the last 30 years."

 

The 1977 books are evidence of hoarding/speculating in the direct distribution era when it became much easier for fledgling shops or junior dealers to buy a few hundred copies of each issue. Pre-direct distribution, not as easy I think, unless you owned a newstand. Seriously, Nova 1, PPSS 1 and Star Wars 1, how many copies were printed, 5 million each??? I've been told (by a former friend of his) that Mike Carbonaro (Neatstuff's owner) used to routinely buy 500 copies of each new Marvel back then. Maybe that's bull, I don't know, but I remember him from shows when I was a little kid and I'm in my mid-30s. Maybe he was 18 then, I dunno. He's just one of many guys playing that game back then. So, some of the early 70s stuff is safe. And you can tell from some of the print-runs on those books that there weren't vast numbers being hoarded. Not rare, but not the same quantity as 5 years later.

 

 

And yes, some of those X-Men in the early 100s are certainly candidates for finds like these. 94, less likely. A little too early.

 

As for DD 168, you don't need a frigging warehouse find to know that there are zillions of those out there! While certainly not hoarded like 181, FM's DD was getting popular then (sure see plenty of some of the other issues in the mid-160s) and there are lots and lots of them. Why more haven't been submitted and come back 9.8s (black cover doesn't explain everything), I don't have a clue, but that was an "expensive" book almost immediately, so not too many would have been trashed in the 25 cent box.