Austin,Texas "JMV Comic Book Show" Saturday Sept 2,2006

[Sonofpromoterman]

Just a friendly reminder about our upcoming show in...

 

Austin,Texas

"JMV Comic Book Show"

Saturday September 2,2006

 

Omni Hotel -Southpark

4140 Govenors Row

(IH -35 at Hwy 71)

 

Hours:10am - 4pm Admission:$2.00

Early Buyer Hour (9am -10am) Admission:$5.00

 

Win a $100.00 shopping spree at 3:30pm

 

Dealer Tables:$50.00 (25 -6ft)

 

For more info contact:

JMV Entertainment

Po Box 151

Temple,Tx 76503

(254)760 - 8682

info@jmventertainment.com

www.jmventertainment.com

 

[bubbagump]

Any board members going to attend?

[Sonofpromoterman]

Yes the Austin show is still a go.I know 2 board members will be set up as dealers(sonofpromoterman and bubbagump).Where in the world is the mighty Lighthouse ?

[lighthouse]

Yes the Austin show is still a go.I know 2 board members will be set up as dealers(sonofpromoterman and bubbagump).Where in the world is the mighty Lighthouse ?

 

I never set up at a show where the expected attendance is less than 20 times the table fee...

 

San Diego is $1800 a space, but attendance is well over 36,000 (actually around double that).

Seattle is $300 a space, and attendance is right at 7,000.

Portland is $70, and attendance is around 1,500.

The local shows I do in San Antonio are $45 and attendance is just over 900.

 

I am doing the Dallas Comic-Con in Plano in October. Tables are $100, and attendance is over 2,200...

 

Large shows, small shows, east coast, west coast or third coast... doesn't matter. The 20 per dollar rule still applies... That's why Wizard World Chicago is a good deal at $900 per booth (when they get 30,000 in attendance) and Wizard World Texas is a horrible deal, perhaps the absolute worst show in the entire country, at $700 per space with under 8,000 in attendance... Both Wizard World shows, but only one of those two is worth doing...

 

So with your show, the tables are $50...

 

How close to 1000 attendance are you expecting?

[greggy]

Yes the Austin show is still a go.I know 2 board members will be set up as dealers(sonofpromoterman and bubbagump).Where in the world is the mighty Lighthouse ?

 

I never set up at a show where the expected attendance is less than 20 times the table fee...

 

San Diego is $1800 a space, but attendance is well over 36,000 (actually around double that).

Seattle is $300 a space, and attendance is right at 7,000.

Portland is $70, and attendance is around 1,500.

The local shows I do in San Antonio are $45 and attendance is just over 900.

 

I am doing the Dallas Comic-Con in Plano in October. Tables are $100, and attendance is over 2,200...

 

Large shows, small shows, east coast, west coast or third coast... doesn't matter. The 20 per dollar rule still applies... That's why Wizard World Chicago is a good deal at $900 per booth (when they get 30,000 in attendance) and Wizard World Texas is a horrible deal, perhaps the absolute worst show in the entire country, at $700 per space with under 8,000 in attendance... Both Wizard World shows, but only one of those two is worth doing...

 

So with your show, the tables are $50...

 

How close to 1000 attendance are you expecting?

[lighthouse]

Yes the Austin show is still a go.I know 2 board members will be set up as dealers(sonofpromoterman and bubbagump).Where in the world is the mighty Lighthouse ?

 

I never set up at a show where the expected attendance is less than 20 times the table fee...

 

San Diego is $1800 a space, but attendance is well over 36,000 (actually around double that).

Seattle is $300 a space, and attendance is right at 7,000.

Portland is $70, and attendance is around 1,500.

The local shows I do in San Antonio are $45 and attendance is just over 900.

 

I am doing the Dallas Comic-Con in Plano in October. Tables are $100, and attendance is over 2,200...

 

Large shows, small shows, east coast, west coast or third coast... doesn't matter. The 20 per dollar rule still applies... That's why Wizard World Chicago is a good deal at $900 per booth (when they get 30,000 in attendance) and Wizard World Texas is a horrible deal, perhaps the absolute worst show in the entire country, at $700 per space with under 8,000 in attendance... Both Wizard World shows, but only one of those two is worth doing...

 

So with your show, the tables are $50...

 

How close to 1000 attendance are you expecting?

 

Stalker!

[Sonofpromoterman]

Hey Mr.Lighthouse,

Welcome back ! You make a interesting point however the only comeback I can up with is "are you more concerned with counting people or counting cash ?".

 

I think Lemur55 went thru this a couple of weeks ago with a fellow board member about attendance at a show in NYC.

 

Obviously a quarterly one day "Comic Book Show" aimed only at comic book collectors is not going to pull in as many folks as a multi day media convention.

 

Eckmans show draws on collectors from 3 different hobbies:Comics,Sports Collectibles and Toys.If you drop the sports and toy crowd from the mix and made it only comics I think the attendance would shrink somewhat.

 

My point is you can make money at small shows by applying the rule of 20x what you pay for your table.If you gross $1000 or more for a $50 table only a hour from the house that not too bad is it ? Ask Bubbagump (Rick W.) he has two tables for Saturday.

[lighthouse]

Actually Rick and I have had some lengthy conversations about your shows, and the fact that he is setting up there is a big reason why I will not be...

 

We share space at a number of shows, but based on the description he gave of your last event, every dollar I would take in at your show would be a dollar I was taking away from Rick.

 

I stand behind my past statements. If your attendance were commensurate with your table fees, I would likely purchase 4-6 tables and would bring more than a year's income worth of inventory... But your attendance isn't even close to where it needs to be to justify the trip.

 

My cost on four $50 tables at a 1-day show in Austin:

 

$200.00 - four tables at $50 each

$ 81.00 - truck rental to haul 1800lbs of merchandise

$ 80.00 - fuel costs for said truck

$150.00 - opportunity cost of missing a day's (overtime) work (8 hours)

$ 30.00 - additional food costs

 

Total fixed costs to exhibit at your show: $541.00

 

Even if my cost of goods sold is around 35%, I have to sell $832 worth of product before I have covered my fixed costs. I do $1000 in sales at your show and I will have generated a "profit" of $109.00. That, of course, assumes that I am dodging my sales tax obligations. If I am an upstanding citizen, I have generated a profit of $29.

 

Now yes, it's true. I get that $29 plus the $150 that I would have made at work. So really I am getting $179. Woo-hoo. $179 for a 14 hour day of weekend work in which I lifted over 7,000 pounds of inventory.

 

Now, if you actually had the kind of attendance that a $50 table fee promises, I could realistically expect to do around $1700 in sales at your show with those same four tables. On $1700 in sales, my take-home works out to around $578. That's a show I am willing to do. I am willing to lift those 1800lbs of books four times in a 14-hour day to take home that much cash. It's not a great show (it's actually not even a good show), but it justifies me showing up.

 

As a promoter, you are selling attendees on a combination of dealers and guests. And you are selling dealers on attendees. I just don't see where I am getting $50 worth of attendees from you... To be honest, your attendance count is more suited to a table fee of $10. And I pass up the opportunity to set up at $10 a table at the flea market every single weekend...

[Stronguy]

[Sonofpromoterman]

I can understand where you are coming from.However if you have to spend that much time and effort to do a one day show perhaps you should just open a store.

 

Or just limit your show schedule to the top 3 attended shows in the country.San Diego Comic -Con,NY Comic Con (soon to be #1 in a few years) and Wizard World Chicago.

 

At $10.00 a table I could not even cover room 1/3 the cost of a 25 table room.The Omni Hotel is a upscale hotel not a old wal -mart turned into a convention center.

 

Your fixed costs could be downsized.

$200 for 4 tables./ $50.00 for 2 tables

(Why not get just 2 tables ? I will give you a free table if you buy just one table.)

$81.00 Truck rental / $0

(With less inventory no need to rent a truck you can use your car or suv)

$80.00 truck fuel / $40 for Gas

(I can go round trip from Temple,Tx to San Antonio round Trip on just under $50)

$150 overtime / $0

(Overtime is not something you an rely on.If you own your own business there is no such thing as overtime because your the boss and you have to make things happen)

$30.00 food/ $5.00

( A 12 pack of pepsi,a loaf of bread,a pack of bologna,pack of cheese,bag of chips)

 

Total cost to set up:$95.00

 

If you have decent quality Golden Age or Silver Age books to sell you will make your money back in one sale. If you have 30,000 modern 50cent comics that your trying to move you might have to do some discounting.

 

I really don't think Rick(Bubagump) is worried about you taking a few sales from him.I bet he would enjoy having some friendly competiton.

 

I still belive with the right books you could gross $2000 with two tables or less.

If you can not make it as a dealer please come as a collector.

[Stronguy]

I still belive with the right books you could gross $2000 with two tables or less...

 

... if that hoard of high-end Mexican (or was it South American) tourists that hit the last two SA shows decide to (i)migrate a few miles north.

[HouseofComics.Com]

I can understand where you are coming from.However if you have to spend that much time and effort to do a one day show perhaps you should just open a store.

...

...

I still belive with the right books you could gross $2000 with two tables or less.

If you can not make it as a dealer please come as a collector.

 

There's some good back and forth in this thread and I want to add some friendly comments.

 

1) I think Lighthouse was being conservative in his estimate of how much effort it would be to do your show. I find shows to be an amazing amount of effort. To just equate it to a dollar figure is pretty conservative. Even at Lighthouse's $500+ figure that would be worth it to him doesn't sound appealing to me because I find shows very disruptive to my mail order business. The prep time, clean-up time, and disruption in finding items after they get moved around. (It's somewhat balanced by the fact that I do have a website to promote at the shows so I get some additional benefit from doing shows that others might not.)

 

2) Your point about the right customers (ie, ones who actually buy comics) is a good one. Are people actually grossing $2000 with two tables at your show though? and how much of that is from selling key books or low-margin books? Meaning, if I sell a low-grade Amazing Spider-Man #7 for $150 at a show I don't really consider that wonderful news because that book is going to sell for me anyway. What's good at a show is having someone come up and buy $100 of westerns (Texas is probably good for that!) or $150 in HG DC 70s Superboys or selling a Marvel Feature #1 mid-grade for near guide when I have 3-4 more copies. Those are the kinds of benefits that a show can give me when the stuff might sit on the site for a long time.

 

This Sunday I'm doing my first one-day show in 23 months and am trying something new. Just going with a small car load and no pressure and limited outlay and almost zero prep. We'll see how that works.

 

Good luck with your shows!

 

Marc

[Sonofpromoterman]

... if that hoard of high-end Mexican (or was it South American) tourists that hit the last two SA shows decide to (i)migrate a few miles north.

 

You never know Stronguy,the Omni Hotel - Southpark is located in South Austin only a few miles from the Austin Airport.

 

You should come down and hang out.You can visit that Martial Arts studio in Buda.

[HouseofComics.Com]

$ 81.00 - truck rental to haul 1800lbs of merchandise

 

Where can I get this kind of deal? Maybe I'm too inexperienced at this kind of thing but I assume I'm looking at a two-day rental minimum and I usually end up getting quotes for vans from major car rental companies.

[lighthouse]

I can understand where you are coming from.However if you have to spend that much time and effort to do a one day show perhaps you should just open a store.

 

Whether I have a store or not isn't relevant to whether I would set up at your show. At most decent shows a fair number of the vendors are people who have brick and mortar locations AND set up at conventions.

 

Or just limit your show schedule to the top 3 attended shows in the country.San Diego Comic -Con,NY Comic Con (soon to be #1 in a few years) and Wizard World Chicago.

 

The top 3 shows in the country require a much higher cost-density to be successful. No one does well selling 25c books at big shows because it simply isn't feasible to turn enough of them in the time available. It's difficult to do well in San Diego with an average item under $25. Smaller shows fill a needed outlet for sales of cheaper merchandise.

 

At $10.00 a table I could not even cover room 1/3 the cost of a 25 table room.The Omni Hotel is a upscale hotel not a old wal -mart turned into a convention center.

 

If the room is costing you $750 and you are averaging six dealers at your shows, perhaps you should consider another hobby.

 

Your fixed costs could be downsized.

$200 for 4 tables./ $50.00 for 2 tables

(Why not get just 2 tables ? I will give you a free table if you buy just one table.)

$81.00 Truck rental / $0

(With less inventory no need to rent a truck you can use your car or suv)

$80.00 truck fuel / $40 for Gas

(I can go round trip from Temple,Tx to San Antonio round Trip on just under $50)

$150 overtime / $0

(Overtime is not something you an rely on.If you own your own business there is no such thing as overtime because your the boss and you have to make things happen)

$30.00 food/ $5.00

( A 12 pack of pepsi,a loaf of bread,a pack of bologna,pack of cheese,bag of chips)

 

Total cost to set up:$95.00

 

Even for two tables out of town I would be renting a vehicle. I can haul 800lbs in my vehicle, but that doesn't even fill two tables with long boxes, much less provide a backdrop of "wall" books.

 

And yes, overtime is something I can rely on. I get more overtime than straight time in my current job. So far this year there have been 13 weekend days that were not available to me for work. I have had two weekend days off in the last 11 weeks where I wasn't doing a comic show. My days off wind up being mid-week straight-time days...

 

If you have decent quality Golden Age or Silver Age books to sell you will make your money back in one sale. If you have 30,000 modern 50cent comics that your trying to move you might have to do some discounting.

 

Ignoring for a moment that Golden Age and Silver Age only sell when there are lots of comic customers in the room, you do realize you just suggested I bring 6,000lbs of moderns to fill two tables at your show, right?

 

I really don't think Rick(Bubagump) is worried about you taking a few sales from him.I bet he would enjoy having some friendly competiton.

 

I still belive with the right books you could gross $2000 with two tables or less.

If you can not make it as a dealer please come as a collector.

 

I won't be stepping on Rick's toes this weekend...

 

You didn't like me tossing around the 1,000 head count number before... How about this... During your show, keep hour by hour head counts of paid attendance. Post those numbers in this thread after the show, and if Rick vouches for the numbers (no matter what they are) I will send you $25 cash. If that total attendance is above 250 and Rick vouches for the numbers, I will send you $300 worth of TPBs. Mind you, I still think 250 would be horrible paid attendance for a show with a $50 table fee, but I'll send you $300 worth of trades if you make that number.

 

'House

[Sonofpromoterman]

 

This Sunday I'm doing my first one-day show in 23 months and am trying something new. Just going with a small car load and no pressure and limited outlay and almost zero prep. We'll see how that works.

 

 

My God man how will you make any Money ? Go to just a one day show? In a small car ? No pressure ? Limited outlay ? Why you will be the laughing stock of convention,other dealers will look at you with sarcasm and say "oh look at him he's here to have a good time" or "why is he here passing out flyers for his mail order / internet business how dare he try to make new contacts !"

 

Seriously you had some good points Marc.Small show - small display , Big Show - Big Display.

 

As far as dealers grossing $2,000 in comics with 2 tables or less it has happened before but it was from selling high grade material.High end collectors will spend the money at small shows.Low end collectors may have the desire to buy but do not spend the capital.So is it worth it to haul around low grade material to small shows ? I say yes if it fits into your car or van.

 

Have fun at your no pressure show,maybe you will make some new contacts.Have you tried bringing a laptop to the show so folks can see your website ?

 

It seems to work for Chuck R. and the Mile High crew at San Diego.

[Stronguy]

You should come down and hang out.You can visit that Martial Arts studio in Buda.

 

You talking about Ray Parr's school? I know Ray and have trained there a few times before. Most recently I was there for a seminar with Guru Larry Hartsell on July 29th.

 

AFA making a 400 mile trip for a low-end 1 days show... no thanks.

[Sonofpromoterman]

Did you know that "Sifu Larry" will be coming back to Texas Oct 14-15 ?

[Stronguy]

Yes and he will be back in Dallas in December too at my school. Larry is great friends with my Sifu. They used to raise hell together back in the '80s. Every time Larry's in Texas I go and train with him. I have 40 hours with him just this alone.

[Sonofpromoterman]

Well maybe we can use you as security at a show.