This is a Shame..

[murph0]

Book looks like it's at least a F..however, some genius decided to give it a special treatment I just don't get this? You see a few books like this, but it still remains a mystery to me why this happens.

 

Brian

[BachelorOfComix]

Comics with clean tears like that w/half or a third of the cover missing are returns from the store which originally sold them.

[greggy]

Book looks like it's at least a F..however, some genius decided to give it a special treatment I just don't get this? You see a few books like this, but it still remains a mystery to me why this happens.

 

Brian

 

Prior to the direct market, sellers would get credit for unsold books by proving that they remained unsold. So...instead of requiring that they return the unsold copies, the publishers required that the top strip be removed and returned to them. Later on, I guess they just took signed statements that they remained unsold. Thus....the Mile High 2 collection!

[BachelorOfComix]

Prior to the direct market, sellers would get credit for unsold books by proving that they remained unsold. So...instead of requiring that they return the unsold copies, the publishers required that the top strip be removed and returned to them.

Very insightful gregster. I never knew that before. I guess you do learn something new everyday!

[greggy]

Prior to the direct market, sellers would get credit for unsold books by proving that they remained unsold. So...instead of requiring that they return the unsold copies, the publishers required that the top strip be removed and returned to them.

Very insightful gregster. I never knew that before. I guess you do learn something new everyday!

 

Oh greggy is aware of a lot of information. The fact that I chose not to disseminate it is my MO!

[BachelorOfComix]

Oh greggy is aware of a lot of information. The fact that I chose not to disseminate it is my MO!

Bah, I've forgotten more than you'll ever know. BTW, I answered murph's question before you so get off the high horse Einstein!

[greggy]

Oh greggy is aware of a lot of information. The fact that I chose not to disseminate it is my MO!

Bah, I've forgotten more than you'll ever know. BTW, I answered murph's question before you so get off the high horse Einstein!

 

Oh shaddup foolio!

[BachelorOfComix]

 

Oh shaddup foolio!

[thecomicsheet]

Book looks like it's at least a F..however, some genius decided to give it a special treatment I just don't get this? You see a few books like this, but it still remains a mystery to me why this happens.

 

Brian

 

Same book being flipped from a couple weeks ago. I mentioned this auction in my column.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2176762621

 

Is this a record price for a 0.5 book?

 

I can remember in the 60s my Uncle owned a store that sold comics and paperbacks. Every now and then I would see him tearing the covers off the books and throwing them away. I 'liberated' a few comics from the trash to read and promptly threw them away again. These must have had some early Amazing Spider-Mans and FF's that I'd sure like to have again for reading copies.

 

[lighthouse]

Book looks like it's at least a F..however, some genius decided to give it a special treatment I just don't get this? You see a few books like this, but it still remains a mystery to me why this happens.

 

Brian

 

Prior to the direct market, sellers would get credit for unsold books by proving that they remained unsold. So...instead of requiring that they return the unsold copies, the publishers required that the top strip be removed and returned to them. Later on, I guess they just took signed statements that they remained unsold. Thus....the Mile High 2 collection!

 

Believe it or not, there are still lots and lots of books that are handled this way...

 

I probably get 20 overships a week from Diamond, and if I don't sell them, I strip the cover and send them back. I've got a nice stack of strip-cover Wizards and Toyfares I use for reference.

 

And many comic dealers supplement their Diamond orders by ordering from Ingram (the same people who supply newsstands). Those books are all strip-cover returnable...

[Dave_Hennen]

I have an Amazing Spider-man #50 that is exactly like that. The book would be in F to VF without the title cut off

 

I always thought that some kid cut out the title to make a collage or something like that. I guess I know the real reason now. I learn something new about comics everyday (almost)

 

dave h

[Zonker]

Believe it or not, there are still lots and lots of books that are handled this way...

 

I probably get 20 overships a week from Diamond, and if I don't sell them, I strip the cover and send them back. I've got a nice stack of strip-cover Wizards and Toyfares I use for reference.

 

And many comic dealers supplement their Diamond orders by ordering from Ingram (the same people who supply newsstands). Those books are all strip-cover returnable...

 

Interesting! So there remains a non-Direct channel, eh? Should have known this was the case for the few remaining bookstores/newstands sales, but this is the first I've heard of "Ingram."

 

Are affadavid (sp ) returns therefore a thing of the past? Gotta ship at least something back for credit?

[lighthouse]

Believe it or not, there are still lots and lots of books that are handled this way...

 

I probably get 20 overships a week from Diamond, and if I don't sell them, I strip the cover and send them back. I've got a nice stack of strip-cover Wizards and Toyfares I use for reference.

 

And many comic dealers supplement their Diamond orders by ordering from Ingram (the same people who supply newsstands). Those books are all strip-cover returnable...

 

Interesting! So there remains a non-Direct channel, eh? Should have known this was the case for the few remaining bookstores/newstands sales, but this is the first I've heard of "Ingram."

 

Are affadavid (sp ) returns therefore a thing of the past? Gotta ship at least something back for credit?

 

Yes... Ingram Periodicals is the largest distributor for newsstand comics. There was actually a huge stink about two years ago because Ingram was releasing certain Marvel titles before Diamond, and retailers were furious that their primary advantage (earlier release dates) was taken from them.

 

There are two big differences for retailers. Ingram's discount is only 25%. And you have very little say in what they send you. They base their shipments on what you have sold for them in the past, and you have almost no input in terms of ordering additional copies of certain issues. You can steer your shipments a little bit between publishers, but you have no control over what titles you actually get.

 

Returns are handled on a monthly or semi-monthly basis, all strip cover. The system takes a while to get used to, but works very well. And the freight charges are less than Diamond for UPS accounts. When Marvel first went to their no-overprint policy, a lot of retailers signed up with Ingram to have extra shelf copies available. There's very little mark-up, but it can help flesh out an otherwise empty shelf...

[jonnydouble]

There are two big differences for retailers. Ingram's discount is only 25%. And you have very little say in what they send you.

 

LH...

Speaking of discounts.....what is the average discount for a direct dealer with Diamond, if you don't mind me asking??....When I thinking of opening a shop a couple of years back I tried to get an idea from them, but they were very vague ....they gave me a very large range of possible discounts and wouldn't speak further until I agreed to a credit check with them.

 

 

Jonny D.

[lighthouse]

There are two big differences for retailers. Ingram's discount is only 25%. And you have very little say in what they send you.

 

LH...

Speaking of discounts.....what is the average discount for a direct dealer with Diamond, if you don't mind me asking??....When I thinking of opening a shop a couple of years back I tried to get an idea from them, but they were very vague ....they gave me a very large range of possible discounts and wouldn't speak further until I agreed to a credit check with them.

 

 

Jonny D.

 

The discounts vary by publisher. Marvel and DC have their own plateaus based on how much of their product you order. The remaining publishers are at a discount based on your total orders for all products.

• 
  
• Your typical shop that dabbles in comics but is mostly a card store gets a 45% discount on the bulk of their comics, but just 35% from Marvel.
  
• Your typical shop that is a smaller store (800-1100sf) but focused on comics over cards gets a 50% discount on most comics, but probably just 45% on Marvel.
  
• Your typical shop that is a medium sized store (1100-1300sf) gets a 50% discount on comics most of the time, but sees occasional months where they get 52.5% from DC.
  
• Your typical shop that is a medium sized store (1100-1300sf) with great traffic gets 52.5% on DC, Dark Horse, and Image, gets 53% on Marvel, and gets 50% (the maximum discount) on everybody else.
  
• Your typical mega-store (1500-2500sf) or chain of 2-3 medium stores gets 55% on the four major publishers.
  

There are discount plateaus above 55%. Diamond goes as high as 57.5%. DC tops out at 57%. Marvel goes all the way to 59.5%. But as of right now, there isn't a single account getting Marvel's top discount (which only applies to monthly orders of $125K or more of just Marvel product).

 

Mega-accounts like Graham Crackers and Mile High are likely getting 56-57%.

 

Discounts above 50% really only apply to new release comics and TPBs from the big four... The rest of the publishers top out at 45-50% no matter how much you order from Diamond. And most of the more expensive items (statues, hardcovers, toys, DVDs) are at net cost or limited discount regardless of how much you order. I pay the same amount for my Batmobile statues that Mile High does...

 

And no, you don't get your discount based on the size of your store... ... But ultimately your ordering volume is a direct function of your square footage. You only have so much room to display merchandise, so the biggest limiting factor in your sales is the size of the shop. It is certainly possible to run a store poorly, and get less of a discount (or go out of business). But sustainable ordering volume in a properly run store is a function of size, and the numbers above are a good gauge of what you will see.

[jonnydouble]

Wow!!...that's better than I thought...I was figuring on a real small shop...no more than 1,000 s/f...and I estimated the discount to be about 40% tops.......

 

J.D.

[lighthouse]

Wow!!...that's better than I thought...I was figuring on a real small shop...no more than 1,000 s/f...and I estimated the discount to be about 40% tops.......

 

J.D.

 

For a shop that small, your goal is to have $600 a month in orders from DC and $800 a month in orders from Marvel. That will get you 50% from DC, 45% from Marvel, and 45-50% from the rest (depending on whether your other orders total $800)...

 

Now, of course that doesn't include freight. And unless you live in a distribution city, you're looking at $15-25 a week in freight charges (counting the $6 a week in COD fees you'll get the first 6-18 months).

 

On $2,500 in monthly retail, freight charges will change your realized discount from 48.4% to 45.2%...

[sckao]

 

Great posts!

 

It's stuff like this that I actually find extremely interesting. (Similar to the nuts and bolts of comic book printing found in another thread...) I must be getting old...

 

Do you allow regular store members to order from you and use your Diamond discount? (ie. give them a break on the price while still realizing a profit?) I've noticed that a lot of eBayers will sell pre-orders on eBay. Does that augment their sales enough to qualify for the highest Diamond discounts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lighthouse]

Do you allow regular store members to order from you and use your Diamond discount? (ie. give them a break on the price while still realizing a profit?)

 

I offer my subs a variety of options for special orders, depending on the item and the amount of pre-payment, and depending on the volume of business they are giving me. Power subs get much better deals, that's just the way it is.

 

But as an example, I offer my discount less 5% on any special order items paid at the time of order (so if I get 45% you get 40%...) On items like statues, a pre-payment of 50% of retail gets a 25% discount (if the statue is picked up within 10 days of release). Statues ordered without prepayment get 5% off. Although again, power subs get better treatment.

 

I have one mail-order customer who gets my discount less 8% on everything he orders no matter what it is, plus gets free shipping. He gets 172 regular titles, plus an average of 80 additional new comics, plus around 15 TPBs a month... He works a listening post somewhere for the military (I honestly don't know where) and sits and reads comics all day long. Needless to say, he gets special treatment.

 

I've noticed that a lot of eBayers will sell pre-orders on eBay. Does that augment their sales enough to qualify for the highest Diamond discounts?

 

Technically, all pre-orders are in violation of Visa/MC policy. You can do them with checks or money orders, but it is a violation of the merchant services agreement to charge a card before merchandise is available to ship. So all those folks you see on eBay doing pre-orders for anything and accepting PayPal are breaking the rules.

 

As far as it boosting the discount level, it's not uncommon to push the discount up a level by padding with big ticket items. I do it with statues and hardcovers all the time. But the highest discount level? Not a chance. Total cover price of all Diamond comics last year was around $16,000,000. You have to order $4,800,000 a year just be at the top level. You could order half the entire print run of Ultimate Spider-Man and it's not enough to get to the top Marvel discount...

 

I'm not sure if Diamond will have an issue with me posting this, so I may take it down later, but since several people have asked:

 

Diamond's Current Discount Structure:

 

Amounts are in retail dollars per month. Discounts are percentages. Note that DC orders are included in the Diamond discount but Marvel orders are not. So ordering more DC boosts both discounts, ordering more Marvel just boosts the Marvel discount.

 

Over

DC Discount

Over

Marvel Disc

Over

Diamond

0

35

0

35

425

35

400

40

800

45

1150

45

600

50

1200

50

2200

50

2200

52.5

2500

53

6300

52.5

3400

55

4000

54

10000

55

17000

56

7000

55

50000

56

34000

57

15000

56

95000

57

-

-

30000

57

270000

57.5

-

-

75000

58

-

-

-

-

125000

59

-

-

 

You can see that it requires tremendous growth to move above 55% with DC and Diamond. Also, the discounts above are correct, but nearly every account getting 54% or better with Marvel actually gets 1% better than the discount listed, because Marvel gives a bonus discount if you order a certain amount of every one of their titles. You reach a certain point, and it's worth it to order the four extra copies of Ultimate Adventures to get the discount on everything else.

 

BTW, threads like this are the reason I don't reveal the location of my store on the forum. I'm happy to inform the folks here of what life is like as a retailer, but I don't need my customers coming into the shop and quoting this back to me.

[500Club]

LH-

 

I'd heard that discount formulas became more rigid through the 90's as the industry moved through the Heroes' World fiasco. Have you been in business long enough to know what discount structure was in place before (pre-Diamond monopoly), during (Marvel exclusive Heroes World), and after (Diamond monopoly) Marvel tried to do their own distributing?