New Comic Art Appraisal Service

[Joe AllStar]

Thank you Joe

We always appreciate the support!!

Joe and Nadia

[Joe AllStar]

Your assumption is incorrect Read the expanded post

[Joe AllStar]

As promised this is the more detailed response I had prepared.

 

Let me begin by stating who, what and why.

 

I am Joe Mannarino, most of those on the list know Nadia and I, as we have been actively involved in the field for nearly 30 years and have been collectors for over 40. We own All Star Auctions LLC and are the same Joe and Nadia who inaugurated the Comic Collectible auctions at Christie’s from beginning to end.

 

Although we feel we have been among the most visible and accessible people in the hobby we are surprised no one, not a single person, called or emailed to ascertain the details (facts) before jumping to conclusions. It must be evident that the new website is still under construction and as such, some details are missing. We knew the timing would be off but decided to launch the overall concept in conjunction with San Diego. We did send out a global email to our entire mailing list of over 10,000 (including a post on this list) prior to and during San Diego, to ask visitors and clients to come by or inquire.

 

Why- During the last 20 years we have quietly been involved in numerous insurance, estate, IRS and disbursement appraisals as a service for clients. As such, we have served all sides; clients who require an appraisal for insurance coverage, insurance companies in the case of claims, institutions for the purpose of IRS deductible donations/ contributions, the IRS for the purpose of verification, as well as financial institutions which may be issuing credit based on a collectible as collateral. The list can go much further including diverse requests from attorneys. We have provided these services for many if not a majority of the high profile collectors, institutions, artists and estates in recent years who have required it. We are proud to say that to the best of our knowledge no claims have been successfully contested. In this capacity Nadia is a member of The Appraisers Association of America. We have promoted this service in our literature and on our site since the day we began, and in fact still do at: http://www.allstarauctions.net/apprais.htm Also, http://www.comicartappraisal.com has been an active web site for over five years, it is just being updated.

 

This portion of our business has been growing steadily. The reason is simple, as the value of collectibles have risen, so has fraud, the fear of loss and the need for insurance. We have been successful in our responsibility for a number of reasons. We have always formally addressed and documented the 3 basic criteria that all of the above require;

Proof of ownership

Proof of authenticity

Objective criteria for establishing value

 

All we are now doing is formalizing and offering this service in a more public forum and on an individual item basis. We are not interested in creating a price guide or telling anyone what they should ask or pay for their collectibles. However, collectors should be interested in the process an insurance company goes through when and if a claim is filed.

 

Market category expertise- No one can be an expert in every aspect of a field. In addition to a comprehensive database of “comparables”, we have always contacted and utilized people we feel are experts in particular segments. We will continue to do this and have already begun to contact a core group of remote experts. The key is for the art to arrive at a central location where it can be examined, scanned and condition documented. The image and data can then be sent to remote consultants for rating as we use a minimum of three graders on each item.

 

Presently, a comprehensive price guide that attempts to determine a value for each page of art ever produced, is futile. However, collectors should be aware of the criteria that determines value in the current market. Experienced collectors, dealers and professionals do this almost instinctively through experience and knowledge. All we have done is with the help of professionals, collectors and 20 years of formal experience, document these criteria. We have consulted with insurance professionals, collectors, dealers as well as some of the most prestigious professionals in the field. We have incorporated their input. We feel secure that if one takes the time to read and consider the criteria that goes into determining the value of an example of art they will see the merit.

 

Understanding the certificate, the microscopic image and encapsulation option- once a certificate is issued, what prevents an unscrupulous person from attempting to reproduce the art while providing an authentic certificate? Our answer is the following;

Provide a certificate with numerous security features

Capture a microscopic image of a tiny detail in the art, down to the fiber pattern that we maintain in our records, and is not made public, that can be used for a comparison in the future.

At all levels of service detailed notes are made about condition that are included on the certificate.

If a person wishes we can take the extra step of placing the art with the certificate in a standard archival Mylar (Melinex) sleeve and seal the majority of the opening. As we note on our site “It is currently the position of Comic Art Appraisals LLC that for the purposes of rating original comic art, encapsulation is not a necessity. Where condition is critical in determining value, as in comic books or other mass produced products, we feel encapsulation and professional inspection for restoration is essential. However, we strongly advise those that consider purchasing a rated example of art to read and compare the notes description on the CAAR Certificate to determine if condition has changed from the time the art was originally rated.”

 

 

Disclaimers:- The first line on the back of each certificate under: DISCLAIMER, LIMITING CONDITIONS AND ASSUMPTIONS reads as follows:

 

Comic Art Appraisal LLC and/or the employee rating the individual item of art has no financial interest in the items and does not contemplate any such interest in the future.

 

 

In order to demonstrate the service at San Diego we prepared sample certificates and included them in the art we were exhibiting. This is why they were clearly overprinted with SAMPLE!

 

 

We actually gave to anyone that asked the criteria and definitions in San Diego. This is a 8 page document that will be available on the website.

 

Lastly, we use the term “illustrated narrative art” to describe comic art and newspaper comic strip art. Although we represent Frazetta and routinely appraise the top tier of illustration art, we do not currently plan to rate illustration art.

 

Hopefully, this begins to address some of the questions and will become part of our FAQ

 

Joe Mannarino

Comic Art Appraisal LLC

www.comicartappraissal.com

[Erato]

I don't know. I have the feeling this isn't exactly for an OA fan like myself. I tend to enjoy lower end stuff, for which my wallet is very thankful. Mostly stuff that has some meaning for me. I usually only sell to fund a newer perchase, I have a couple goals/grails like everyone else.

 

I see the advantages as far as insurance claims are concerned. Maybe if I had a collection worth more in $$. But I think any loss I'd feel from outside factors damaging/destroying etc. my art would be more personal. Though it's not worth much too many, if I ever lost the first piece of OA I got I'd be very upset. Not for the loss of $$, but the loss of a valued keepsake with alot of memories attached.

 

Just my nickel,

 

Brian

[Ares]

I just have a few questions if you could answer cause I have a feeling I am missunderstaing a few things

I am Joe Mannarino, most of those on the list know Nadia and I, as we have been actively involved in the field for nearly 30 years and have been collectors for over 40. We own All Star Auctions LLC and are the same Joe and Nadia who inaugurated the Comic Collectible auctions at Christie’s from beginning to end.

As an admited collector isnt it a conflict of interest to be buying and selling OA and running a grading service? Unles I am mistaken GCG employees are forbiden to buy and sell CGC books.

 

 

This portion of our business has been growing steadily. The reason is simple, as the value of collectibles have risen, so has fraud, the fear of loss and the need for insurance. We have been successful in our responsibility for a number of reasons. We have always formally addressed and documented the 3 basic criteria that all of the above require;

Proof of ownership

Proof of authenticity

Objective criteria for establishing value

 

How do you prove Ownership?

When people buy from websites or private sales receipts are harly exchanged. Or am I missunderstanding and you are referign to after it is graded

 

 

Wont this be a potential for insuarance companies to deny claims of limit payouts if damaged. After all someone may have paid 10,000 for a piece of artwork but insurance comp might say it was not graded so high and therefore we will only pay 5000

[Joe AllStar]

>As an admited collector isnt it a conflict of interest to be buying and selling OA >and running a grading service? Unles I am mistaken GCG employees are >forbiden to buy and sell CGC books.

 

Please not in our post above..

 

Disclaimers:- The first line on the back of each certificate under: DISCLAIMER, LIMITING CONDITIONS AND ASSUMPTIONS reads as follows:

 

Comic Art Appraisal LLC and/or the employee rating the individual item of art has no financial interest in the items and does not contemplate any such interest in the future.

 

 

In order to demonstrate the service at San Diego we prepared sample certificates and included them in the art we were exhibiting. This is why they were clearly overprinted with SAMPLE!

 

>How do you prove Ownership?

>When people buy from websites or private sales receipts are harly exchanged. >Or am I missunderstanding and you are referign to after it is graded

 

When a claim is filed and receipts are not present an insurance carrier normally asks where they can verify ownership.

 

Joe

[Ares]

>As an admited collector isnt it a conflict of interest to be buying and selling OA >and running a grading service? Unles I am mistaken GCG employees are >forbiden to buy and sell CGC books.

 

Please not in our post above..

 

Disclaimers:- The first line on the back of each certificate under: DISCLAIMER, LIMITING CONDITIONS AND ASSUMPTIONS reads as follows:

 

Comic Art Appraisal LLC and/or the employee rating the individual item of art has no financial interest in the items and does not contemplate any such interest in the future.

 

 

In order to demonstrate the service at San Diego we prepared sample certificates and included them in the art we were exhibiting. This is why they were clearly overprinted with SAMPLE!

 

>How do you prove Ownership?

>When people buy from websites or private sales receipts are harly exchanged. >Or am I missunderstanding and you are referign to after it is graded

 

When a claim is filed and receipts are not present an insurance carrier normally asks where they can verify ownership.

 

Joe

I guess I read the posts incorrectly which is why I had to ask in such a way with regards to collecting art.

 

I guess my main concern since most of my purchases are private sales deal I have no receipt per say. This might be a good idea but is there a value level to an art peice where it does not become feasable to have it checked out?

[Joe AllStar]

If your focus is insurance coverage, it really depends on your insurance company. Our experience is that individual claims under $500 are not much of an issue.

 

It also depends on the type of insurance you carry. A couple of misconceptions:

Not all insurance policies cover theft on your premises, in fact the vast majority do not. You need to specifically request theft coverage. If you have not been asked to itemize all or some portion of your art you likely are not covered. There may also be a limit to a claim so it is important to check this out.

 

If you have a total loss policy, it normally means total loss. For example, if one item of a hundred items is not damaged or stolen…… These type of policies are usually riders to home owner insurance. They may not request itemization but the odds of TOTAL LOSS are low using the typical definitions.

 

Also it may not matter what your premium or coverage may be, when a significant claim is filed, a third party is brought in to substantiate value.

[KingOfRulers]

I am into OA more as a side hobby to comics. I love OA, but I don't know its technicalities and politics like I do comics. That being said, this appraisel service doesn't really...do anything for me. I think the 100 point system and its areas is too liable for bias. It is expensive as well. Good concept, but as for my personal opinion on it--just not for me.

[Joe AllStar]

Certainly appreciate your position and sincerity especially when the criteria and information are not yet posted.

 

That being said I have a question for you as a comic book collector. Let's assume that condition is exactly the same (you pick the number), why is the value of Amazing Fantasy #15 higher than Tales To Astonish #27?

 

Joe

[aardvark88]

Value of AF #15 is higher than 1st Ant-man due to demand. Also front cover of AF 15 has a large, bold Kirby image of Spider-man. Cover of TTA #27 does not have Ant-man in costume.

Spider-man comics have never been cancelled. Ant-man is not a long running title.

Spider-man 3 movie hype vs lacklustre Ant-man movie hype.

[Joe AllStar]

So what you are saying is that Continuity of the character (spanning generations and still active)

Cross-over appeal meaning that the character has appeared on licensed products, TV, Books, movies etc as well as

Cyclical demand with the success of the movie are all factors?

How about the fact that Ant Man does not appear in costume? Would you call that Content?

Add to that some of the basic factors that make both books important:

Historical Context (first appearance and origin)

The artist(s) and writer (creator(s))

If you were looking at determining a price you would also look at the condition.

if it was a specific page of art from either book, you would look at the configuration (# of panels, size of art etc.)

And finally is action on a page important? The character in costume? The villain? These are the aesthetics (creativity)

We do a good job of taking these factors for granted but actually are these not factors that create desirability, demand and value in today’s market?

[Mighty Hal]

Joe, I appreciate the concept of your service. And it may come to pass that insurance companies and new collectors embrace the process warmly. As we've all seen before, if your service drives comic art prices skyward for the pieces that you've evaluated, the service will sell.

 

But, as a collector, I think there's some fuzzy areas in OA that can't be evaluated easily. Hypothetical example: POWERPUFF GIRLS #46. (I don't have this comic, I haven't read this comic, everything is hypothetical.) Splash page: The Powerpuffers in a raging battle with Mojo Jojo. Stunning Powerpuff art by Mike DeCarlo, who has pretty much established himself as THE Powerpuff Girls artist. Written -- for some reason -- by Jim Shooter. The artwork itself is in perfect condition. It's got most of the factors that you've just listed...and it won't sell for as much as a very lame page from any issue of SPIDER-MAN, regardless of Spidey's artist and writer.

 

But if my kid loved the Powerpuff Girls and I had the bucks to spend, I just might buy it for her at a price higher than the SPIDER-MAN page, anyway. Or I might decide not to get either of them and buy a really hot commissioned Bombshell page by Pop Mhan. Because Good Girl art will always find a market among collectors...even if it has none of the factors that you've shown above.

 

Still, I appreciate your willingness to discuss the service openly and in a forum of OA fans. Thanks.

[Joe AllStar]

Hal,

We appreciate the response and understand your sentiments. I do believe there is a disconnect over the goals of the service. “if your service drives comic art prices skyward for the pieces that you've evaluated, the service will sell.” This is not our mission statement which clearly states:

Mission Statement

The goal of Comic Art Appraisal LLC is to establish The Comic Art Appraisal Rating which identifies the key factors that affect value in the narrative art market through a 100 point standard. Not to be confused with a price guide, this evaluation service provides a numerical rating for examples of original art while establishing authenticity and proof of ownership.

Collectors, dealers, enthusiasts as well as institutions can authenticate, document and ascertain the relative factors that determine the value of narrative art. A security laden, Comic Art Appraisal Rating Certificate will be issued with each rating.

We do not want to influence what someone should pay or ask for their art or comment on people’s tastes, after all that is what makes us each who we are. However, we do feel that the factors that we cite are relevant in having a discussion regarding a page of original comic art. In comic books everyone seems to have their own preferences when it comes to title, publisher, era, creator, character, villain etc etc. In addition, collectors have preferences in regards to the factors that make up a condition grade, page color, defects, restoration, degree of restoration, type of defects, color gloss etc etc. We seem to be able to use specific terms when we discuss books, why can we not do the same for art?

PS the group may have to excuse us if we cannot post over the next couple of days, we are on vacation in Mexico and unfortunately, we have to evacuate due to hurricane John!Joe Mannarino

[Guest]

I wanna frame my art and hang it on the wall, not stick it in a mylar with a XX out of a 100 number system on it,it works for manufactered items,not one of a kind items.

 

I only just qualfy as an 'Arty', but wouldn't the conservation side of this 'encapsulation' be worth some merit?

CGC do provide a viable safety net for books that are only getting older, and more fragile with time. Arguably their is role for this within the art hobby as well?

 

As for the criteria for grading value, I do have to agree they are extemely poor chosen. If they had purely stuck to quality in terms of of paper conditon that would of been entirely appropriate. As you are very much at the mercy of buying 'on line' sight unseen. And everyone is intimately aware with what can be hidden within scans. This would facilitate safer internet based transactions.

 

Heritaqge's business arguably is supported by the fact that they provide as much detail and information as resonably possible on the art they are selling. Something that a lot of other venues don't offer. A grading system based on pure condition would be of benefit, and facilitate 'sight unseen' transaction.

[Mighty Hal]

Joe, thanks for the reply.

 

I appreciate your mission statement and actually find much to admire in that statement. Still, I think the underlying value in someone using your service is to increase the price of the artwork that's been graded. After all, a NM copy of a comic book seems to be suddenly worth a multiple of its original price...if it's been professionally graded.

 

I hope you've survived Hurricane John and I look forward to your progress with Comic Art Appraisal LLC.

[KingOfRulers]

Certainly appreciate your position and sincerity especially when the criteria and information are not yet posted.

 

That being said I have a question for you as a comic book collector. Let's assume that condition is exactly the same (you pick the number), why is the value of Amazing Fantasy #15 higher than Tales To Astonish #27?

 

Joe

 

Sorry for the delayed response.

 

I was going off of what is posted. I saw the grading scale--is that not the criteria?The value is higher because the demand is higher for an AF #15, then a TTA #27. That is in any grade.

[Joe AllStar]

The value is higher because the demand is higher for an AF #15, then a TTA #27. That is in any grade.

 

Specifically, what factors create the demand for AF#15 over the TTA#27?