Why dont some people use paypal?

[CKB]

A check clears in my bank usually in 48 hrs, if its good

 

This is REALLY REALLY bad information. While it is true on the face of it, just because a check "clears" does not meant that it is good. If you think that just because the money appears in your account that the transaction is over, you are sorely mistaken.

 

The bank CAN and WILL retract the funds if the check turns out to be bad or the account it is drawn on has insufficient funds. Indeed, despite what a previous poster said, this process does take a minimum of 10 BUSINESS DAYS.

 

So, do not ask your bank how long it will take a check to clear, ask them how long it is before you are guaranteed that the bank will not take the money back!!!!!

 

Here is a recent Q&A I had with my bank, which is Texas Capital Bank (BankDirect). You need to read this from the bottom up. And Money orders are really no different from checks.

 

********************

 

From: Customer

Sent: Jul 14 2006 2:29PM

Subject: RE: 6/28 Chargeback

 

I consider that a direct answer. Thank you. :-)

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

From: Client Support

Sent: Jul 14 2006 2:10PM - Customer Service Response

Subject: RE: 6/28 Chargeback

 

 

Chris,

 

I can not give a direct answer. 10 business days or 2

weeks is the best answer I can give. The variables on

items that have been deposited fluctuates depending on

inter-bank processing time, whether the institutions

utilize Check 21 and other factors. I apologize but

there is not a direct definitive answer.

 

Scott

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

From: Customer

Sent: Jul 14 2006 1:22PM

Subject: RE: 6/28 Chargeback

 

I'd like a direct answer to the question "how long do

I need to wait before I can be sure the money posted

to my account, after depositing a money order, is not

going to be rescinded?" I'd like the answer in

"business days" if possible.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

From: Client Support

Sent: Jul 14 2006 1:07PM - Customer Service Response

Subject: RE: 6/28 Chargeback

 

 

Chris,

 

Thank you for your reply. Money Orders and Bank

Checks are more stable because cash is used to

purchase the item. This being said, a person can

still place a stop order on them, but there are more

papers and legal forms to place stop pays on those

items versus a personal check. The better route would

be to use or request a money order or an official bank

check from whoever is paying you money. I am not

saying that they are equal to a personal check, I just

want to make sure I have provided to you all the

information, that they can still have stops placed on

them, but they will not come back NSF as Cash is used

at time of purchase. Please let me know if you have

further questions.

 

Scott

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

From: Customer

Sent: Jul 14 2006 12:24PM

Subject: RE: 6/28 Chargeback

 

So the "stop pay" on a money order may not appear for

up to two weeks as well? If it is two weeks like a

personal check, why would I want to consider them

"more stable??" I'm trying to determine when it is

absolutely safe that money which posts to my account

will not be taken back. I appreciate your help.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

From: Client Support

Sent: Jul 14 2006 8:21AM - Customer Service Response

Subject: RE: 6/28 Chargeback

 

 

Chris,

 

Thank you for your email. Items that have been

deposited and then later hit your account as a

chargeback due to insufficient funds, can take up to

two weeks to hit your account as a chargeback. Money

orders and bank checks are more stable then personal

checks, but can still have a stop pay placed on them.

The only guaranteed funds would be Cash, and

electronic deposits into your account. Please let me

know if you have further questions and thank you for

your business.

 

Scott

Client Support Specialist

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

From: Customer

Sent: Jul 13 2006 10:53PM

Subject: 6/28 Chargeback

 

I want to thank you for your help with the 6/28

chargeback. I noticed that the item orignally posted

on 6/21, but did not come back NSF until the 28th.

This looks like about 5 business days to me. This is

longer than I would have expected for an NSF to take.

Is there an amount of time I should wait for personal

checks such as this one? Do the same rules apply to

USPS or Western Union money orders or bank checks? I

appreciate your help.

 

***********************

[uclapeterg]

A check clears in my bank usually in 48 hrs, if its good

 

With the new banking rules in place and as long as it is not an insane amount, that's pretty typical.

 

I agree with the notion that people should accept check, MO or paypal. Some people are scared by paypal (and with good reason). If people are in that much of a hurry, maybe they should buy books in person.

[uclapeterg]

Your losing sales...seriously. I've steered away from eBay cause of this growing trend as well as others.

 

I don't think so. I've accepted checks and MOs with PayPal for years. I've noticed that 90% of my payments are PayPal users. I'm just ready to streamline my business, reduce my cycle times, and mitigate some risk, by accepting PayPal only. I don't think it hurts sales as much as those who won't accept PayPal. Besides, I don't want to cater to people who have decided not to use PayPal. They bug me.

 

I would say about 60% of my buyers have paid with paypal and more people send money orders not checks.

[uclapeterg]

That's pretty interesting. I'm going to followup with my bank and ask them.

[CKB]

That's pretty interesting. I'm going to followup with my bank and ask them.

 

I'm glad I got someone's attention. I would be surprised if it was different with any other bank.

[Nostalgic Attic]

Some people have been treated badly by Paypal. There was an instance where thousands of accounts were double billed and refunds were not timely, to say the least. Aslo, if you read their buyer protection terms, and ever have to deal with them in that arena, you are in for a big surprise...( their "buyer protection" is generally useless if the seller is a savy con artist).

 

That being said, Paypal is the most convenient electronic payment system and saves both the buyer and seller time and money, so I think the people who don't use it, do so largely out of principle due to the reasons cited above.

[tth2]

You're absolutely correct. Unless I know the buyer, I always wait at least 2 weeks on any check or money order before I ship the book out.

 

I'm amazed by the attitudes of some of the sellers on here. As a seller, I think it's in my best interest to maximize the ways in which a buyer can pay me. You always want to expand your target market, not artificially narrow it.

[comicwiz]

That's pretty interesting. I'm going to followup with my bank and ask them.

 

I'm glad I got someone's attention. I would be surprised if it was different with any other bank.

 

Thanks for rasing this issue ckb.

 

With my bank, I have essentially tried to figure out the best way to deliver the goods, without introducing any delays to sending the merch to buyers, and/or eliminating barriers in my online person to person trading pursuits.

 

I think we can all agree that saying you accept PayPal is one of the best ways to bolster sales. On the flipside, and for some of the hair-raising experiences with PayPal that have been raised above, limiting payment options solely to accept PayPal can hurt sales.

 

Including International Money Order (IMO) or Bank Draft is a close second as there are people that are put off with using PayPal, and not giving them an alternative is about as bad as not offering PayPal as a payment option.

 

In terms of holding funds, I made 100% sure that there would be a) no hold on funds; b) no impact on my account balance if the IMO is fraudulant. I can appreciate the possibility that a bank might not want to absorb the loss in the case of a fraudulant mo or bank draft, but to pass it on the customer is bad business.

 

Especially because both of those forms of payments have checks in place whereby the bank can make a direct call to the issuing institution, provide a reference number, and get it cleared with a single phone call. If a bank decides not to take that course of action for the sake of expediency, or to race through the line of waiting customers, why should I be punished for their neglegence.

 

I lay the ground rules very clearly for the buyer in my listing, and only accept PayPal and IMO (stopped with Bank Draft because my bank just enacted holds on them) because the IMO clears on the spot, and is the only form of assurance for me that the bank will not reverse funds from my account after its been cleared. There aren't any additional tiers of clearance either - when I walk into the bank, they clear it on the spot. And there isn't a chance it will come back to bite me in the butt.

 

I have actually returned Bank Drafts and Cheques to buyers and insisted on IMO because the hassle of waiting for holds, and having no assurance that the charge will reverse isn't fair to either myself or the buyer.

[Kevin76]

Cracks me up that people lay down all these ground rules for a mere $10.00-$50.00 auction,If you sell for example $1000+ items I can see the wait time ect...But i've sold stuff on ebay before and if his feedback is excellent and got paid with a check and it's only $10 or so, I mail it right out,never had a problem.

[comicwiz]

Cracks me up that people lay down all these ground rules for a mere $10.00-$50.00 auction,If you sell for example $1000+ items I can see the wait time ect...But i've sold stuff on ebay before and if his feedback is excellent and got paid with a check and it's only $10 or so, I mail it right out,never had a problem.

 

I used to think the exact same way -- until I had the urge to try a few .99 cent auctions. Almost all the auctions went without a hitch and I actually didn't mind doing them even in cases where my eBay fees were higher than my return. Two of buyers had the unfortunate situation of having their package sent to the wrong state. Thank goodness the recipient had the decency to "return to sender."

 

So I had to pick up the costs of shipping these .99 cent books twice, for two seperate auctions. If you were to see the emails I recieved from these two, it would absolutely blow your mind! I could not believe the level of harrasment (I recieved emails from them almost twice a week) I was recieving.

 

I offered on both counts to return their payment in full (including the shipping charges) because I just couldn't deal with the audacity and nerve any longer. Because they were silver-age DC's, one of the guys accused me of trying to renag on the auction, and that I was making the whole incident up because he figured that I'd lost money on the auction.

 

Its in cases like this where its a lose - lose proposition; on the one hand you can't be blamed for the inefficiencies of the postal system, and on the other, the buyer didn't want to spend additional money for shipping services which include tracking. You don't want to be hard-nosed and not issue a refund because the postal system screwed you over either.

 

So my response to that accusation was simple. I said, would it make me seem anymore honest a seller if I told you "sorry about the book getting lost, but I don't do refunds?"

 

There is still one other book that's in limbo, and from the correspondence I've recieved from this buyer, he has demonstrated the capacity to threaten and accuse, but I really can't believe how quick people are to accuse you, especially for such a low value item.

 

Its one of the main reasons why I can't handle eBay any longer.

[bogrod-migration]

Some people have been treated badly by Paypal. There was an instance where thousands of accounts were double billed and refunds were not timely, to say the least. Aslo, if you read their buyer protection terms, and ever have to deal with them in that arena, you are in for a big surprise...( their "buyer protection" is generally useless if the seller is a savy con artist).

I'm a newbie who registered specifically to comment on this post.

 

Paypal buyer protection uses a specific word when it comes to their buyer protection. The item has to be significantly different than the item description for Paypal to act on your behalf if you are seeking a reimbursement for a dispute if you were to get an item that was described innacurately. (intentional or otherwise) I remember that word because when I went in to read the details, that is what is stated on their website.

 

"Significant" is of course just one in a number of subjective terms, but suffice to say - Paypal is unlikely to come to your aid unless if you have a real real strong case on your side. This doesn't bother me in the slightest, since I consider myself to be ebay-savvy and experienced. Even so, I rarely buy items for more than a couple of hundred dollars off of ebay. If I have a reason to spend more than that on anything, I buy from legitimate retailers with a credit card that I can go to to dispute charges if there is a problem. I won't allow myself to be burned on a big-ticket item/collectible.

[Smokinghawk]

My Paypal story:

 

Just last night I received the fourth notification of a paypal claim against a payment made to me by account holders alleging unauthorized use of funds. That means all four of the last four payments I received last month for auctions will be seized from my account and there isn't #$!^ I can do about it.

 

So either:

A) Paypal offers so little protection to sellers that crooked buyers can just file "unauthorized funds" claims and get 100% of their money back as a sneaky way to avoid a dispute over the actual delivery of the items ('cause with an unauthorized funds claim, I can't really dispute it; I can resolve it voluntarily ot have paypal revoke my money *without* my cooperation--two crummy options), or

 

B) Paypal is such a harbor for thieves and pirates now that I have zero real protection as a seller. Paypal has become the method-of-choice for phishers and hackers, and as of last night's notification I will have lost 100% of ALL the income I made last month, PLUS a $5 fee for "dispute resolution" for EACH instance, even though I am also an innocent victim of the scams.

 

And what did I get for this kind of hassle? Permanently suspended from eBay!

 

Gee, they got concerned that my account has been involved in multiple fraud situations (nevermind that the fraud was AGAINST me, not BY me), so they suspend me and refuse to consider any appeals I send.

 

Oh, and waiting 2 weeks doesn't protect you at all. The "unauthorized funds" chargeback last night was for a payment from August 21. If the 30 days has passed that Paypal allows for filijng a claim, the buyer can simply file a chargeback claim with his credit card company or bank instead, and it could be WEEKS after the sale before they hit you...long after the item you sold has been received and paypal's 30-day window is closed so you can't dispute the matter.

 

[Smokinghawk]

I've decided to start accepting PayPal only. For one, it makes sure your buyer has a PayPal account. It will eliminate many newbs and kids, and ensures the buyer's identity (well, most of the time it should reduce the number of buyers with false identities).

 

 

No it won't, and no it doesn't!

 

I'm 0 for 4 on all four of my last sales, because 100% of last month's buyers turned out to be frauds. ALL FOUR had "verified" accounts--or access to them, at least.

[chuxtuff]

For me, it's convienence. Both for myself and my customers. But I still accept m/o's and even personal checks. And why not? I live in the country and drive to the city everyday to go to work and pass uncountable banks along the way and mine happens to be one of them. I like stating I accept those articles of payment even though most of my business these days pays via PayPal. It just looks good to be flexible imho. (Reminds me of a story a friend told one time about a visit to Amsterdam's infamous red light district many years ago. He asked one of the lady's of the evening if she took dollars. Her reply was, "Honey, I take francs, guilders, pound sterling, marks, gold, jewelry, diamonds, platinum, silver or anything else that can "spend" and YES, I take dollars!!" I'm the same way when selling on Ebay....I'll take anything that "spends"!!) I've always offered to ship instantly even if you pay via a personal check....as long as you have plenty of POSITIVE feedback and the purchase is under $50 or so. Otherwise and because of increased chances of fraud, ALL instruments of payment MUST clear my bank before anything's shipped and that could be up to 7 days.

But back the original question about why someone WOULDN'T use PayPal?? Back in the old days on Ebay, before PayPal, compared to now I rather enjoyed the delay between auction's end and recieving payment. That gave me plenty of time to get the item wrapped up ready for shipping, which, granted, isn't much when selling comics. But when selling valuable antiques and shipping them all over with no breakage, wrapping valuable parcels so they won't break (themselves or the amount sent for shipping) that can be a challenge and that better have a short learning curve too. Instant payment means instant shipping...it can be a double edged sword if time is precious. I'm sure there's many other reasons too as we've read so far. But all things considered PayPal (for me) has been a blessing and made my financial life easier. Fwiw. Chuck

[HouseofComics.Com]

<<But all things considered PayPal (for me) has been a blessing and made my financial life easier.>>

 

True, but one nightmare scenario like Smokinghawk is going through and we could change our minds. That sounds horrible.

[Smokinghawk]

<<But all things considered PayPal (for me) has been a blessing and made my financial life easier.>>

 

True, but one nightmare scenario like Smokinghawk is going through and we could change our minds. That sounds horrible.

 

It's why I listed on bidoncomics, although I didn't get enough bids to sell.

 

So I guess eBay is alien territory to me now, which is a shame because I had 677 99.8% feedback and had made eBay thousands of dollars.