Question On Page Quality

[arexcrooke]

Well said Ray.

I think the hit on grades might come more from not C/OW pages, but from tanning, which usually results in a book having C/OW. I might be speaking out of my arse, but it makes sense to me.

You are correct that PQ designation is a hit or miss proposition at best.

[squidmo2000]

Well said Ray.

I think the hit on grades might come more from not C/OW pages, but from tanning, which usually results in a book having C/OW. I might be speaking out of my arse, but it makes sense to me.

You are correct that PQ designation is a hit or miss proposition at best.

But I think the hit a book takes for PQ is only downward.I doubt any 7.5's get bumped to 8 or 8.5 for having white pages,but I could be wrong....

[gpanalysis]

We see record/high prices for regularly traded books regardless of page quality (that is, Cr/OW all the way through to White). There may be some influence on page quality in Silver Age books, but in general not enough to skew results one way or the other.

 

With golden age books, and those rarer books traded, the page quality is even less of an impact on price.

[whomerjay]

Yeah, I often see the tanning and COWP together- but not always, actually less than more often. I personally don't care for the visible tanning on the outside, and i would devalue the book in that case.

 

To further confuse, some (including some big auction guy associated with Heritage) have told me the PQ designation refers to two different features, the page quality in the book, and then something to do with the edges or cover (or something), Such that with OW to WP the OW is the pages and WP is something else. Never believed this.

[whomerjay]

record prices for books regardless of PQ is one thing, but have you done a direct comparison of books of different PQ? Might be hard for GA as the sample number might be too small, and too many co-variates to consider (like if the CGC grade looks accurate).

 

Just curious- do you have the PQ of each book in your database?

[Mad Dog]

That is certainly news to me as well....

 

that doesnt make much sense does it? shouldnt it be two seperate things, grade and PQ?

 

This way, i can technically have a nicer 9.4 OW than another 9.6 with whites... and not due to inconsistent grading..? is everybody sure that thats the way they do this ..?

 

Its probably just me asking a stupid question, but this is a surprise to me...

[gpanalysis]

record prices for books regardless of PQ is one thing, but have you done a direct comparison of books of different PQ? Might be hard for GA as the sample number might be too small, and too many co-variates to consider (like if the CGC grade looks accurate).

 

Just curious- do you have the PQ of each book in your database?

 

We have serial numbers for many of the books, and the original auction page/details for the rest. In some instances we may not have PQ for every single issue we are analyzing, but enough to see that there is no real pattern between price fetched at auction/sale and PQ.

[blazingbob]

Depends on what your interpretation of cream is.

 

Does the book have a look of whole wheat bread becoming wonder bread white or is it a light cream becoming smoking white.

 

I guess I should propose CGC start using the term Light cream versus Heavy Cream to Offwhite.

 

I am always a fan of the following page quality description - Best served with butter and jam.

[Sal]

Yeah, I often see the tanning and COWP together- but not always, actually less than more often. I personally don't care for the visible tanning on the outside, and i would devalue the book in that case.

 

To further confuse, some (including some big auction guy associated with Heritage) have told me the PQ designation refers to two different features, the page quality in the book, and then something to do with the edges or cover (or something), Such that with OW to WP the OW is the pages and WP is something else. Never believed this.

 

i'd always read that the books are graded for PQ from the outside in, which means that a C/OW book's pages are cream at the edges, gradually or rapidly changing to OW towards the spine/center.

 

but then again, what do i know

[lizards2]

But then again, look at what is considered "white" pages.

 

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Doc-Savage-5-CGC-9-6...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

 

The paper in the cover is converted and transparent. The paper just doesn't match up with either the grade or the page quality here.

 

Personally, this paper conversion is a real turn off, and as near as I can tell, is in no way calculated into the grade. It's a definite indicator of poor storage conditions.

[blazingbob]

You are correct on the interpretation.

[skybolt]

Yeah, I often see the tanning and COWP together- but not always, actually less than more often. I personally don't care for the visible tanning on the outside, and i would devalue the book in that case.

 

To further confuse, some (including some big auction guy associated with Heritage) have told me the PQ designation refers to two different features, the page quality in the book, and then something to do with the edges or cover (or something), Such that with OW to WP the OW is the pages and WP is something else. Never believed this.

 

i'd always read that the books are graded for PQ from the outside in, which means that a C/OW book's pages are cream at the edges, gradually or rapidly changing to OW towards the spine/center.

 

but then again, what do i know

 

I agree with this as well. I've spent some time trying to figure out what the page quality is before sending the books to be CGC graded. For instance, one comic had sparkling white pages throughout the entire book, but came back as C-OW because of the first and last interior pages. On the otherhand, my second copy had lesser PQ throughout the entire book, and came back with OW pages (which I agreed with). Plus, didn't Doug recently state that CGC was much harder on PQ during their first couple of years?! I'm not blaming CGC because it is difficult to try and average out the overall page quality of a book, but the market's perception should reflect this. The difference between page quality with certain books is sometimes as miniscule as the difference between a 9.6 and 9.8 grade.

 

That being said, at least CGC's page quality designation makes some sense. On the otherhand, PGX is a complete crapshoot. I purchased some GA books from Four Color comics that had fairly similar page quality. On the first submission most of them came back with white pages, while the second batch came back with mostly Cream pages.

[drbanner]

I was wondering if anyone can give my their opinon on page quality. I have noticed that most people will not give a second look at a comic with cream to off white pages. Is cream to off white pages that bad?

 

I've seen plenty of books designated as having "CR/OW" pages (or worse) that had bright and shiny cover colors. I would take a book like that over a "white-paged beauty" with faded cover colors (or tanning evident on the covers) any day. You would think that interior page quality and cover page quality would always be the same, but that's not the case.

[drbanner]

CGC have confirmed that Page Quality is factored into the overall grade. This means a 9.4 c/ow is probably nicer structurally than a 9.4 w. I guess it comes down to each buyer's personal preference.

I have an Avengers 17 C/OW that structurally is close to a 9.0, but some tanning and a name in pen on the inside BC brought it down to a 7.0.

 

CGC will hammer a book for cover tanning (especially SA/BA books). In this case, I'd guess the cover tanning affected the grade a whole lot more than either the PQ or the writing.

[arexcrooke]

But then again, look at what is considered "white" pages.

 

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Doc-Savage-5-CGC-9-6...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

 

The paper in the cover is converted and transparent. The paper just doesn't match up with either the grade or the page quality here.

 

Personally, this paper conversion is a real turn off, and as near as I can tell, is in no way calculated into the grade. It's a definite indicator of poor storage conditions.

What you are seeing there is the effect that the microchamber paper has on the apperance of the cover. For some reason, the micro-chamber paper does that.

Somebody can probably explain it better than I can.

Arex

[lizards2]

But then again, look at what is considered "white" pages.

 

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Doc-Savage-5-CGC-9-6...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

 

The paper in the cover is converted and transparent. The paper just doesn't match up with either the grade or the page quality here.

 

Personally, this paper conversion is a real turn off, and as near as I can tell, is in no way calculated into the grade. It's a definite indicator of poor storage conditions.

What you are seeing there is the effect that the microchamber paper has on the apperance of the cover. For some reason, the micro-chamber paper does that.

Somebody can probably explain it better than I can.

Arex

 

Sorry, but I don't think so. Buy the book, crack it out of the case and see.

[drbanner]

The micro-chamber paper combined with the bright light of a scanner makes the translucency effect worse than it actually is. This was discussed in great detail many moons ago here on the board, and I did an experiment with an X-men 10 where I scanned it once with the white micro-chamber paper, and again with black paper. The difference was remarkable!!

 

I'll try to dig up the scans this evening...

[blazingbob]

If you want a collection that has killer covers with questionable page quality check out the Mohawk Valley's. Blazing covers, very dark page quality

[blazingbob]

I agree with you on this. Microchamber paper greatly increases the translucency of the cover.

[sborock]

I agree with you on this. Microchamber paper greatly increases the translucency of the cover.

 

We are working with Bill Cole to change this. If all goes as planned, there will only be a need for one piece of whatever Bill will call it and it will be placed at the centerfold. We are trying to get this implemented now that that convention season and Geppi opening is over