CGC pricing multipliers

[RedRaven]

Most here would probably (and accurately I'll admit) describe me as an old fart. I love comic books.... more exactly I love comicbooks prior to around 1985...Oh there are still some good reads out there today but you won't find them at DC or Marvel. But, that is the topic for anudder thread and my main gripe for this one is ,as the subject line hints at, what I see as a supremely unrealistic speculative market building up around cgc graded comics.

 

I suppose it would seem like an easy target to use the 9.8 issue of hulk 181 that recently sold for approx 20k as a good example....however that is not what I'm referring to. I consider hulk 181 a key modern age book and one that will eventually (measuring time in decades here) live up to such high expectations. My concern is non-key issues of titles selling for multiples of 10X or more of their nmint values. I've seen people selling such items as a cgc graded Marvel Premiere 5 for $210 dollars...(9.6)...And that is just one of numerous examples I could cite. The trend is even worse for key titles. CGC graded high end ASM non-key issues are outraegous!!! I mean honestly its no trick to find a nmint issue of ASM 88, but yet Ive seen people asking 5X multipliers for cgc graded copies!!!

 

I know many will say that if the market will bear it then what should I care....Well markets built on speculation will burst (see .com)...and the amount of harm which it could do to the hobby is anyones guess. I think I'd rather have a dose of reality injected into this pricing scheme before we have to find out just how much damage can be done.

 

[Darthdiesel]

is this the same redraven that drives up Marvel price variants on eBay?

 

CGC multipliers happen when a particular book is CGC graded that is high-end and desired by more than one person with a padded bank account, willing to spend what it takes to complete or add to their collection. I don't think that dealers are hurting anyone. Why should they cut back their sale prices when others know that there is a market for that book willing to pay those high ,multiples of guide? Makes no sense to sellers to hurt themselves. Yes, it may run out of steam once the big players all have their highest graded copy 9.8s of the book they want, but until then, every dealer is hoping to catch the eye of some buyer who wants to pay top dollar for their graded wares , rather than those nickel and diming them, complaining about/comparing their prices to guide.

 

I wouldn't say that a market built on individual situations of what is described above as built on speculation. However, I also would contend that speculation is affecting the current market, and it always will. How do you get rid of speculation? You Don't...

[Aman619]

RedRaven---- Im an old fart too. And I am amazed at the same thing: non-keys selling for 5x guide all of a sudden just cause they are slabbed with 9.6 on the label. But this is the new reality, and you are talking to many of the prime movers of this recent phenomenon right here on these boards. Im not buying them,,,but many here are assembling 9.4 9.6 and 9.8 runs in order to have the 'best ' copies.

 

Will these prices stick or are they a temporary phenomena that will pass?

We'll all just have to wait and see who's right. Search for one of the many threads about the "upcoming CRASH" in prices to read the discussions........

[RedRaven]

No on the ebay price driving thingy....

 

Well cant argue on specualtion driving the market nor would I try to...Maybe Im just catching one too many sellers trolling for the padded pockets as you described. It just looks a little ugly and a little too greedy from where I'm sittin.... (Im just a collector not a dealer).....I just cant believe this is gonna be good for the hobby if it continues.

[Darthdiesel]

Will these prices stick or are they a temporary phenomena that will pass?

We'll all just have to wait and see who's right. Search for one of the many threads about the "upcoming CRASH" in prices to read the discussions........

 

Great question...how about if we look at it as eventually it will all crash. Demand will be sated sometime down the road. The question is can you make your money by then, not left holding a book you don't really want? Thoise that bought at the high prices, I have a feeling that the majority are packrats who will not be flipping anytime soon.

 

I guess my perspective comes from someone who buys books to read, slabs books to sell or hold onto because I feel they have strong potential to make me a tidy profit down the road? I buy new books and read them, if I like it,I'll buy more copies for slabbing or selling in sets on eBay...if I don't like it or I don't think that the market is strong for the book, I hold it and let it rot away in my long boxes until I get sick of looking at it

[blowout]

It just looks a little ugly and a little too greedy from where I'm sittin.... (Im just a collector not a dealer).....I just cant believe this is gonna be good for the hobby if it continues.

 

The crazy prices you are aluding to are already on a decline from the CGC multiplier 'heyday' in 2001, certainly for Modern and 'non key' books.

If you are surprised by prices now, you are lucky you didn't see the crazy money some books WERE going for.

[RedRaven]

"If you are surprised by prices now, you are lucky you didn't see the crazy money some books WERE going for. "

 

Aye, my brother and I recently got back into comic collecting after a 10 year absence from the hobby (the last comics I bought before our return were at a comic convention in Atlanta in 1990, Action 41,Whiz 21, and Human torch 11.

 

We were auditing our collection (mainly 68-80 Marvel and DC) when we noticed this 'New' CGC pricing scheme.

[COI]

Well cant argue on specualtion driving the market nor would I try to...Maybe Im just catching one too many sellers trolling for the padded pockets as you described. It just looks a little ugly and a little too greedy from where I'm sittin.... (Im just a collector not a dealer).....I just cant believe this is gonna be good for the hobby if it continues.

 

Are you a businessman? I would be surprised if you said you ran your own business. It's not about greed. If multiples are being had, then any dealer should strive to get multiples as well. Like Darth said, why should dealers short change themselves? If in the course of their business, they get an opportunity to legitimately make money, then there's nothing wrong with that. They have to eat too, and they would be stupid to price CGC 9.4's at guide. All they can do is follow the market trends.......nothing wrong with that.

 

Post 65' non keys will fall, in my estimation. Like someone above mentioned, prices have already fallen quite a bit from the heyday of 1/12-2 years ago. The extent of the fall will depend on individual books and titles. And although NM's for titles like ASM are ample, the sheer demand will keep them from falling too far. As for post-70' stuff, I think they're definetly headed for a fall, especially keys like MS #5, MP #15, and all these other over-speculated, common books. ASM #121 and #122 have already begun taking hits, ASM #129 will be burnt out by next summer, and Hulk 181 will take a spill in the next few years but will probably recover in the long run. Despite the tremendous demand on these books, there are just too many out there. And while I don't think there are huge hoards of NM raw Hulk 181's, I still think we will see a significant rise in the 9.0-9.4, particularly 9.0's and 9.2's. Those are my predictions, anyway. As for the longer term (10 years+) who friggin' knows.