Who Comprises CGC's restoration detection division? Where are Friesen & Brevard?

[FFB]

That someone may believe it to have been more appropriate to have simply called is not my concern. Why I am even posting CGC responses is beyond me. I will likely have to start charging CGC for my time!

 

Dude, get over yourself!

 

But apart from that snarky comment, thanks for finally getting off your arse and calling and getting the information.

 

Of wait, I just realized, Steve called you -- not vice versa. I take back my last comment.

[esquirecomics]

That someone may believe it to have been more appropriate to have simply called is not my concern. Why I am even posting CGC responses is beyond me. I will likely have to start charging CGC for my time!

 

Dude, get over yourself!

 

Yes sir, Mr. I AM THE ONE TO JUDGE EVERYONE ELSE.

[esquirecomics]

That someone may believe it to have been more appropriate to have simply called is not my concern. Why I am even posting CGC responses is beyond me. I will likely have to start charging CGC for my time!

 

Dude, get over yourself!

 

But apart from that snarky comment, thanks for finally getting off your arse and calling and getting the information.

 

Of wait, I just realized, Steve called you -- not vice versa. I take back my last comment.

 

And damn proud of it!

[mica]

[FFB]

That someone may believe it to have been more appropriate to have simply called is not my concern. Why I am even posting CGC responses is beyond me. I will likely have to start charging CGC for my time!

 

Dude, get over yourself!

 

Yes sir, Mr. I AM THE ONE TO JUDGE EVERYONE ELSE.

 

You owe me for the .1 hours I spent reading this sentence. Just in case anyone forgets that I am a lawyer and that I sue the CIA every day, I think I'll mention it for the billionth time. Not that the CIA has anything to do with this. Just thought I'd mention the CIA. You know, the CIA that I sue everyday.

[adams]

while it is all well & good that an Advisory Committee would be helpful,

a privately owned company has no obligation to do this.

But it is odd, that the only time CGC responds is when there is a fire burning.

 

Don't know if Borock's bosses understand the needy nature of comic collectors.

 

Is there another hobby where collectors show the 'passion' that this one does ?

[FFB]

while it is all well & good that an Advisory Committee would be helpful,

a privately owned company has no obligation to do this.

But it is odd, that the only time CGC responds is when there is a fire burning.

 

Don't know if Borock's bosses understand the needy nature of comic collectors.

 

Is there another hobby where collectors show the 'passion' that this one does ?

 

What you call passion, some people call neurosis.

[esquirecomics]

That someone may believe it to have been more appropriate to have simply called is not my concern. Why I am even posting CGC responses is beyond me. I will likely have to start charging CGC for my time!

 

Dude, get over yourself!

 

Yes sir, Mr. I AM THE ONE TO JUDGE EVERYONE ELSE.

 

You owe me for the .1 hours I spent reading this sentence. Just in case anyone forgets that I am a lawyer and that I sue the CIA every day, I think I'll mention it for the billionth time. Not that the CIA has anything to do with this. Just thought I'd mention the CIA. You know, the CIA that I sue everyday.

 

Here, bill me for this one too!

[FFB]

That someone may believe it to have been more appropriate to have simply called is not my concern. Why I am even posting CGC responses is beyond me. I will likely have to start charging CGC for my time!

 

Dude, get over yourself!

 

Yes sir, Mr. I AM THE ONE TO JUDGE EVERYONE ELSE.

 

You owe me for the .1 hours I spent reading this sentence. Just in case anyone forgets that I am a lawyer and that I sue the CIA every day, I think I'll mention it for the billionth time. Not that the CIA has anything to do with this. Just thought I'd mention the CIA. You know, the CIA that I sue everyday.

 

Here, bill me for this one too!

 

.2!!!!!

[Ze-man]

As I said, Steve B. called me on Tuesday and we discussed my questions (among other matters). .

 

OK, I will bite, what were the other matters you discussed?

 

The points below are from your posts in MasterChiefs thread, they throuble me alot more then wether or not Chris F is listed on CGC's website. Did you discuss this with Steve?

 

So the multitude of HG pedigree copies that have passed through their hands on different occasions is not trackable? In any event, we were not talking solutions to the issue, we were talking about the fact that it is promoted quietly rather than overtly and the impact that has in creating certain views.

========================================

So it was perfectly fine for CGC's business folks to privately tell the dealers and major collectors that they wanted, expected and anticipated having people challenge them on grades and "argue" for higher grades in the form of resubmission but NOT tell the community that this is what is going on? What a great level playing field.

=========================================

Have you listened to the tape recordings of the sessions CGC had with certain dealers/collectors as it was beginning operations? I doubt it. On the other hand, I have personally listened to the tapes. It was stated emphatically and clearly. There was no mistakening it.

 

 

 

[esquirecomics]

As I said, Steve B. called me on Tuesday and we discussed my questions (among other matters). .

 

OK, I will bite, what were the other matters you discussed?

 

I wasn't trying to imply something was being withheld, just noting that the reason why he called me was not for the specific purpose of discussing my questions. I raised them during our conversation.

 

The points below are from your posts in MasterChiefs thread, they throuble me alot more then wether or not Chris F is listed on CGC's website. Did you discuss this with Steve?

 

So the multitude of HG pedigree copies that have passed through their hands on different occasions is not trackable? In any event, we were not talking solutions to the issue, we were talking about the fact that it is promoted quietly rather than overtly and the impact that has in creating certain views.

========================================

So it was perfectly fine for CGC's business folks to privately tell the dealers and major collectors that they wanted, expected and anticipated having people challenge them on grades and "argue" for higher grades in the form of resubmission but NOT tell the community that this is what is going on? What a great level playing field.

=========================================

Have you listened to the tape recordings of the sessions CGC had with certain dealers/collectors as it was beginning operations? I doubt it. On the other hand, I have personally listened to the tapes. It was stated emphatically and clearly. There was no mistakening it.

 

 

No I did not raise those points with Steve as I did not see the need. My recollection is that Steve was not part of CGC at the time of these taped conversations or at the very least was not the CGC rep doing the presentation. Steve correct me if I am wrong. I believe I have discussed the general issues above with Steve at different times. He doesn't hide the fact that resubs are perfectly fine and acceptable with CGC, and definitely doesn't agree with my perception that resubs are bad for business in the long run.

[Zonker]

Steve correct me if I am wrong.

 

good one

[awe4one]

Awe4One and Beyonder called recently about unrelated topics and neither asked this question. I get at least one PM a day from board members and none of them have asked me that question. [/i]

 

I did call on Monday to clear up an error in the Ask CGC section concerning the Mennen wrap/MJ inserts that hadn't been addressed despite a couple e-mails. Talked with Mark Haspel(?). I quickly mentioned in the course of the call the disassembly isn't resto question and my problem with it but told Mark I didn't have the time to discuss it in the depth I wanted at the time due to having to leave for another issue. I told Mark I would call again to discuss in length when I had more time to devote to it...

 

And the result of my call about the inserts? They don't agree despite me giving them the rational/proof of their error and Mark checking his database to find 80% of the comics they've graded of a particular issue supports my view...

 

Jim

[mica]

And the result of my call about the inserts? They don't agree despite me giving them the rational/proof of their error and Mark checking his database to find 80% of the comics they've graded of a particular issue supports my view...

 

Jim

You mean calling didn't work?

[FFB]

And the result of my call about the inserts? They don't agree despite me giving them the rational/proof of their error and Mark checking his database to find 80% of the comics they've graded of a particular issue supports my view...

 

Jim

You mean calling didn't work?

 

Sounds like it worked better than whining about it on a message board would have. At least he communicated with someone at CGC.

[mica]

And the result of my call about the inserts? They don't agree despite me giving them the rational/proof of their error and Mark checking his database to find 80% of the comics they've graded of a particular issue supports my view...

 

Jim

You mean calling didn't work?

 

At least he communicated with someone at CGC.

You hear this all day "Over ruled". But feel free to call it communication.

[Ze-man]

And the result of my call about the inserts? They don't agree despite me giving them the rational/proof of their error and Mark checking his database to find 80% of the comics they've graded of a particular issue supports my view...

 

Jim

You mean calling didn't work?

 

Sounds like it worked better than whining about it on a message board would have. At least he communicated with someone at CGC.

 

Communicating is fine, but asking ,or being asked to relay information to the board in a formal manner is not.

 

A few years ago when I spoke with Steve about god knows what, I mentioned to my wife that I spoke with one of the big wigs at CGC Steve B, and he said I could post what we talked about.

 

She said, and I quote.

 

"Sounds to me like he is using you, why does he need a small potato like you to speak for him?"

 

 

The 3 of us have since had the opportunity to become really good friends. I would not trade that for anything. But her words were wise then, and still ring in my head everytime I see stuff like this.

 

 

I am guilty of it myself, I have learned more by calling Steve and others here on the board then I have in 3 years of posting on this board. But I, or others should not ask, or be asked to speak for those who are in the position of authority. You, and CGC.

 

There is no place for it Steve.

 

Say what you want to yourself. Ask your lawyers to review what you want to say, iron it all out and just come here and say it yourself, or hold a press conference... whatever... but stop with the phone call Q & A chit. It is a cop out, IMHO

 

I say this as a friend, and a potential future customer.

 

You still have a friend Steve, but not a customer.

 

Kenny

[Foolkiller]

I have a slightly different take. People on the boards are asking for answers. If we're so hungry for answers and the only way we can get them is through a filter then so be it. The alternative seems to be no answers. Because CGC is going to keep rolling along until competition enters the marketplace or people stop trusting slabs (on a mass scale). If those are my choices, I'll take the second hand answers for the time being, even if filtered. The problem is, the answers can never be satisfactory because I think the truth is probably that there is some favoritism, it's not a completely transparent process, and the grading/resto standards seem to be a sliding scale that's not readily available for us to read. What's the answer in return? I'm not suggesting giving up, but to be quite honest, they're the best game in town, and the fact is, their security is better than none at all. I hate to say it, but that's really the state we've reached.

[esquirecomics]

I have a slightly different take. People on the boards are asking for answers. If we're so hungry for answers and the only way we can get them is through a filter then so be it. The alternative seems to be no answers. Because CGC is going to keep rolling along until competition enters the marketplace or people stop trusting slabs (on a mass scale). If those are my choices, I'll take the second hand answers for the time being, even if filtered. The problem is, the answers can never be satisfactory because I think the truth is probably that there is some favoritism, it's not a completely transparent process, and the grading/resto standards seem to be a sliding scale that's not readily available for us to read. What's the answer in return? I'm not suggesting giving up, but to be quite honest, they're the best game in town, and the fact is, their security is better than none at all. I hate to say it, but that's really the state we've reached.

 

I can't say I have much disagreement, if any, with your substantive comments Brian. What has been so intriguing with the debates within this thread was the complaints registered by some with the fact that I merely posted questions rather than called for answers. That became the serious controversy rather than the substance of the questions - which no one took issue with because most wanted to know the answers as well!

 

Quite frankly and honestly I would have been more than happy to have had my questions just sit there unanswered because there was a larger point I was making and will continue to make.

 

As a private for-profit entity CGC by no means must have full transparency. Yet it should realize that how it handles itself with its customers impacts its reputation and possibly its bottom line, but that message just doesn't seem to have seeped through sufficiently, IMHO.

[Foolkiller]

Trouble is, I'm not sure there is any impact anymore. We are a small voice in the community. On certain issues we can make a push when we are all unified (or most of us) -- but there's a definitive split on a lot the disclosure issues, and how hard what direction to take with some of these confusing issues in our hobby. As a result I think our internally small group is being ignored and will continue to be -- because quite honestly, responding has not done CGC much good -- it doesn't actually help them to respond. If we as a small group are happy or unhappy, satisfied or unsatisfied, I'm not sure they see much of a reason to actually care these days.