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Okay, so what exactly crashed?

Started by nearmint,

55 posts in this topic

nearmint

nearmint

Posted
Posted

Been hearing an awful lot about "the Silver Age crash". I don't see pre-1966 DCs going for any less on eBay, and believe me, I'm looking. So, are we talking post-1966 silver? Just Marvel, or Marvel and DC? What the heck crashed?

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drbanner

drbanner

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Posted

What the heck crashed?

 

The bad stuff...the good stuff is still hard to find, and everybody wants it! grin.gif

 

I don't collect the titles, but how frequently do pre-66 high grade copies of Showcase and Brave and the Bold show up on ebay?

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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To my eyes, none of the Silver market has crashed except possibly 9.4/9.6 prices, and those didn't crash, they've just come back closer to reality. Saw some people paying too much money for 9.4s and above a few years ago and I've noticed that has come back down to earth somewhat, but I've seen no crash. The multiples should have never been as high as they were to begin with given that CGC and the rest of the market still has too much margin for grading error for people to use those multiples CBG has been reporting as any kind of absolute indicator of value to determine the value for any given 9.2 or 9.4 book. One man seems to have born the brunt of the initial CGC hype more than anybody else, "italian-treasure." I sometimes wonder whether he set a new record for losses on comic book sales over such a short time period. 893whatthe.gif

 

If I saw very few buyers, or sales of 9.2s and 9.4s dipping significantly below Overstreet NM prices, I'd agree that there has been a "crash." What I see is a bunch of books going for what they should have been going for all along. I expect there to be further "corrections," but I don't currently see signs of a crash. Based upon recent sales, my Spidey, Fantastic Four, and X-Men 8.5s, 9.0s, and 9.2s bought two years ago are worth more now than they were then.

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rob_react

rob_react

Posted
Posted
What the heck crashed?

 

The bad stuff...the good stuff is still hard to find, and everybody wants it! grin.gif

 

I don't collect the titles, but how frequently do pre-66 high grade copies of Showcase and Brave and the Bold show up on ebay?

 

Practically never, although pre-1962 is a better cutoff. Those titles make any Marvel book you'd care to wave in front of me look like Jim Lee's X-Men #1. I think in terms of the combination of the money needed and pure difficulty of finding the books, Showcase might be the single hardest Silver Age title to collect in high grade.

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rob_react

rob_react

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One man seems to have born the brunt of the initial CGC hype more than anybody else, "italian-treasure." I sometimes wonder whether he set a new record for losses on comic book sales over such a short time period. 893whatthe.gif

 

What's the story there?

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greggy

greggy

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One man seems to have born the brunt of the initial CGC hype more than anybody else, "italian-treasure." I sometimes wonder whether he set a new record for losses on comic book sales over such a short time period. 893whatthe.gif

 

What's the story there?

 

He's the guy who consigned that large run of high grade Spideys to Heritage that were sold over the last 2 auctions. The 9.6 Spidey 1 was bought by him for approx. $150,000 according to Steve from Metropolis. Sold at last Heritage at $92,000 including the buyer's premium! frown.gif

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rob_react

rob_react

Posted
Posted
One man seems to have born the brunt of the initial CGC hype more than anybody else, "italian-treasure." I sometimes wonder whether he set a new record for losses on comic book sales over such a short time period. 893whatthe.gif

 

What's the story there?

 

He's the guy who consigned that large run of high grade Spideys to Heritage that were sold over the last 2 auctions. The 9.6 Spidey 1 was bought by him for approx. $150,000 according to Steve from Metropolis. Sold at last Heritage at $92,000 including the buyer's premium! frown.gif

 

I knew he was selling at a loss, I'd read that they were recent purchases made basically during the middle of spidermania. I didn't know who it was or how much of a loss though. Sucks to be him.

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nearmint

nearmint

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What the heck crashed?

 

The bad stuff...the good stuff is still hard to find, and everybody wants it! grin.gif

 

I don't collect the titles, but how frequently do pre-66 high grade copies of Showcase and Brave and the Bold show up on ebay?

 

Very true about Showcase and B&B...although that Showcase #18 9.2 on eBay right now is pretty nice. Page quality could be better, but structurally it's pretty sharp.

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rob_react

rob_react

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I guess he wasn't a collector but a speculator. That can only hurt the hobby.

 

Anyone foolish enough to have bought heavily at the height of Spider-mania would suffer similar losses were they forced to sell, motivations aside. Some of those purchases are at least a couple of years away from treading water. Some more. Some bronze/ modern books may never recover their movie hype "value."

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chrisco37

chrisco37

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Some bronze/ modern books may never recover their movie hype "value."

 

You couldn't possibly be talking about the $700+ Peter Parker #1 in 9.8, now could you? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Chris

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dam60

dam60

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Some bronze/ modern books may never recover their movie hype "value."

 

You couldn't possibly be talking about the $700+ Peter Parker #1 in 9.8, now could you? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Chris

 

I bought a 9.6 for $100 last July???? I would be lucky to get $50 for that today . . .

 

I always loved that cover . . .

DAM

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rob_react

rob_react

Posted
Posted
Some bronze/ modern books may never recover their movie hype "value."

 

You couldn't possibly be talking about the $700+ Peter Parker #1 in 9.8, now could you? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Chris

 

That's a perfect example. Just thinking about it scares me. I'm sure there are countless others, too. Stuff that will keep you up at night. Somewhere out there lurks something like ASM 187 CGC NM 9.4 CR to OW for $275...

 

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drbanner

drbanner

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Yep, PPSS #1, Wolverine #1, Spawn #1, Spider-man #1...these were all big losers as the CGC census evolved. The first few copies did not reach insane levels, but they served as kindling to support the astronomical prices for the next "highest graded copy" as the best became 9.8, 9.9, and finally - 10.0.

 

Not sure if X-men #1 ever sold for crazy figures in 9.8 and up or not, but like Joe Q said on the History channel special, when you have 500,000 readers and Marvel is selling like six million copies of the book, well, do the math! 893whatthe.gif

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ArAich

ArAich

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Posted
Some bronze/ modern books may never recover their movie hype "value."

 

You couldn't possibly be talking about the $700+ Peter Parker #1 in 9.8, now could you? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Chris

 

And don't forget the legendary Shadow #1 9.8 that sold for $2500. 893whatthe.gif

 

Still not sure if this is myth or fact????

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Bugaboo-migration

Bugaboo-migration

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You all keep laughing and snubbing your noses.......the crash is coming and I'll have the last laugh..........ha ha......

....Ha Ha Ha Ha...........HA HA HA HA HA HA HA..........BWAA HA HA HA HA HA >cough< >choke< >cough<......

.....you're all fools.

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COI

COI

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Anyone foolish enough to have bought heavily at the height of Spider-mania would suffer similar losses were they forced to sell, motivations aside. Some of those purchases are at least a couple of years away from treading water. Some more. Some bronze/ modern books may never recover their movie hype "value."

 

In hindsight, it's easy to say that he shouldn't have bought at the height of the hype, since hindsight is 20/20. But at the same time, many of those books came out only at that time, and if you're looking to put together a top tier run, you have to move when stuff becomes available or you may not get another shot for a long time. How many ASM #3's in 9.4 are available, or ASM #5's in 9.6? So to get those books, you have to move when they move, and books like that will always be most likely to come out during hype.

 

So yes, he bought high, but the caliber of some of those books is unsurpassed. I don't think buying high is what screwed him, but selling the way he did and at the time he did is what did him in. I think most of us could see that he was going to lose as soon as the books were first previewed on the Heritage site and the catalogue. So it stands to reason that he knew he was going to lose as well. Listing a run like that at Christmas? Only a lunatic would expect to make money. So as far as I can see, it must have been a necessity. Otherwise, why wouldn't he have at least listed high reserves on books like the ASM #5 9.6 MASS(in which he lost about 10K) when he could have just sat on the book.

 

So I wouldn't necessarily be quick to call him foolish without knowing the full story. To me, it seems more unfortunate than anything else. Again, I may be wrong since I don't know the full story either, but that's just how I see it.

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500Club

500Club

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I don't think buying high is what screwed him, but selling the way he did and at the time he did is what did him in. I think most of us could see that he was going to lose as soon as the books were first previewed on the Heritage site and the catalogue. So it stands to reason that he knew he was going to lose as well. Listing a run like that at Christmas? Only a lunatic would expect to make money. So as far as I can see, it must have been a necessity.

 

That's the way I see it. Buy-and-hold would have been the way to go, as a period of years probably would have vindicated most of the overpaid items in the collection. Surely someone with this kind of money must have had that insight. That leads me to think some sort of misfortune got this guy.

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