1990 News story on comic collecting...

[nearmint]

I'll take the Encino address as well. Since I am already there I should be able to beat nearmint to her door. He has to face the 405 from Newport beach

 

ing 405!

[toro]

Which is exactly what people were saying in 1990 when I was selling books like TOS 59 in NM at 10X Guide. ($125). And in 1965 when my mother refused to loan me $100 for an Action #1.

 

You guys always trot out this strawman, but who are "these people"? Dumbasses, I'd imagine.

 

I'll tell you this right now, I've never felt the urge to sell a single comic book, but right now, I'm hearing alarm bells.

 

Look, a NM TOS 59 at 10x guide?

 

Y'know what, first of all, unless it came back CGC 9.4, the guy is still bleeding. If it's a CGC 9.2, he might just be breaking even.

 

If you're paying 10x guide for a book as common as TOS 59, you need to rethink. I mean you only had to wait 16 years -- to basically break even, or perhaps MAYBE make about $700.

 

You could do a lot better with other "investments".

 

I second JC's sentiments.

 

But even if half of Comic-Keys auctions are real, it proves there are a whole lot of dumbasses out there. With all of the riduculous prices he gets on raw books.

[Crowzilla]

Look, a NM TOS 59 at 10x guide?

Y'know what, first of all, unless it came back CGC 9.4, the guy is still bleeding. If it's a CGC 9.2, he might just be breaking even.

If you're paying 10x guide for a book as common as TOS 59, you need to rethink. I mean you only had to wait 16 years -- to basically break even, or perhaps MAYBE make about $700.

You could do a lot better with other "investments".

 

A quick look at Metropolis and ComicLink websites suggest that maybe you don't know how to do math. If the guy dinged it up and it is only a 9.0 right now and "worth" $550 - he is still making 4x his money. If he was able to keep it a 9.4 (or better) and it really is worth in the $2000 range, then the guy did darn well for his $125 investment - to the tune of making more than 15x his money.

[Solar]

Read a comic to a kid and you'll understand.

 

Try to read a CGC slab to a kid and you'll *really* understand.

 

[tth2]

Which is exactly what people were saying in 1990 when I was selling books like TOS 59 in NM at 10X Guide. ($125). And in 1965 when my mother refused to loan me $100 for an Action #1. No one knows what the future holds. I still think you buy quality material in high grade and you'll do well

I don`t know how many times people (including myself when the WM AF 15 sold for $40K) have called a market top, only to be proven wrong. I guess eventually there will be a top, but I learned my lesson about trying to predict one a long time ago.

[Foolkiller]

Look, a NM TOS 59 at 10x guide?

Y'know what, first of all, unless it came back CGC 9.4, the guy is still bleeding. If it's a CGC 9.2, he might just be breaking even.

If you're paying 10x guide for a book as common as TOS 59, you need to rethink. I mean you only had to wait 16 years -- to basically break even, or perhaps MAYBE make about $700.

You could do a lot better with other "investments".

 

A quick look at Metropolis and ComicLink websites suggest that maybe you don't know how to do math. If the guy dinged it up and it is only a 9.0 right now and "worth" $550 - he is still making 4x his money. If he was able to keep it a 9.4 (or better) and it really is worth in the $2000 range, then the guy did darn well for his $125 investment - to the tune of making more than 15x his money.

 

Top guide was $125 I presume back then for the TOS 59 (that would mean 10x guide would be $1250) -- Now if top guide in 90 for a TOS 59 was $12.50, then it's my bad.

[joe_collector]

Top guide was $125 I presume back then for the TOS 59 (that would mean 10x guide would be $1250) -- Now if top guide in 90 for a TOS 59 was $12.50, then it's my bad.

 

These questions are kind of self-defeating, as standard 1990 prices were well above 1989 Guide levels, as this was the start of a HUGE run-up in SA values.

 

For example, I remember seeing NM Hulk 181's at $300 when the Guide stated the book was worth $30-$50. It was NOT 10X Guide, but real market prices, and it wasn't long after that that OS spiked prices on Hulk 181 to keep pace.

 

But this is neither here nor there, and all you need to understand why prices were high then, are high now, and will likely tank in 10-20 years, is a quick course in Economic Demographics combined with a knowledge of comic history. You people act like it's all random and some Act of God or something, when it's backed up by hard demographic data.

 

The people who are now 35-60, in their prime wage-earning years, were part of a kid culture that embraced comics and who literally drove the new comics market. Now that these young fans have grown up, they want to reconnect with their youth, and if spending $4K on a CGC 9.6 copy of Hulk 181 (or $150K on a CGC AF 15) does it for them, so be it.

 

But kids stopped buying comics around 1987-90, so that means within 6-10 years, we're going to see a huge drop-off in the "new blood" vs. "old blood" entering/leaving the high-end comic book collecting hobby/business, and it will only get worse.

 

That's a guarantee.

[Crowzilla]

Top guide was $125 I presume back then for the TOS 59 (that would mean 10x guide would be $1250) -- Now if top guide in 90 for a TOS 59 was $12.50, then it's my bad.

 

You presume incorrect. Keith meant that 10x guide was the $125 he was charging at the time.

JC is also incorrect in stating that everyone was charging these kind of prices. Yes, dealers like Sparkle City, Keith, Motor City, etc that were at the forefront of the Silver Boom could charge and get those kind of prices, but if you went to a show back then a majority of dealers had their copies of Suspense #58 (and Hulk #181) priced at guide. A great majority of dealers at the start of the Silver boom (90-91) followed the guide religously across the board - of course most of these dealers did not have true NM copies available either so the collector who really wanted one usually had to rely on someone like Keith to locate them a copy and paid full market price.

[Owls Head]

Top guide was $125 I presume back then for the TOS 59 (that would mean 10x guide would be $1250) -- Now if top guide in 90 for a TOS 59 was $12.50, then it's my bad.

 

These questions are kind of self-defeating, as standard 1990 prices were well above 1989 Guide levels, as this was the start of a HUGE run-up in SA values.

 

For example, I remember seeing NM Hulk 181's at $300 when the Guide stated the book was worth $30-$50. It was NOT 10X Guide, but real market prices, and it wasn't long after that that OS spiked prices on Hulk 181 to keep pace.

 

But this is neither here nor there, and all you need to understand why prices were high then, are high now, and will likely tank in 10-20 years, is a quick course in Economic Demographics combined with a knowledge of comic history. You people act like it's all random and some Act of God or something, when it's backed up by hard demographic data.

The people who are now 35-60, in their prime wage-earning years, were part of a kid culture that embraced comics and who literally drove the new comics market. Now that these young fans have grown up, they want to reconnect with their youth, and if spending $4K on a CGC 9.6 copy of Hulk 181 (or $150K on a CGC AF 15) does it for them, so be it.

But kids stopped buying comics around 1987-90, so that means within 6-10 years, we're going to see a huge drop-off in the "new blood" vs. "old blood" entering/leaving the high-end comic book collecting hobby/business, and it will only get worse. That's a guarantee

 

 

i agree, i'm 44 y.o. and my oldest son is a 11 y.o. and in the sixth grade. he tells me "NO ONE" reads comics... no one... so there you have it...

[Foolkiller]

Top guide was $125 I presume back then for the TOS 59 (that would mean 10x guide would be $1250) -- Now if top guide in 90 for a TOS 59 was $12.50, then it's my bad.

 

You presume incorrect. Keith meant that 10x guide was the $125 he was charging at the time.

JC is also incorrect in stating that everyone was charging these kind of prices. Yes, dealers like Sparkle City, Keith, Motor City, etc that were at the forefront of the Silver Boom could charge and get those kind of prices, but if you went to a show back then a majority of dealers had their copies of Suspense #58 (and Hulk #181) priced at guide. A great majority of dealers at the start of the Silver boom (90-91) followed the guide religously across the board - of course most of these dealers did not have true NM copies available either so the collector who really wanted one usually had to rely on someone like Keith to locate them a copy and paid full market price.

 

Wow. $12.50 for a TOS 59 NM -- ? Hnh. yowza. Well, as I said, my bad then.

[joe_collector]

Wow. $12.50 for a TOS 59 NM -- ? Hnh

 

Hardly, and anyone knows that dealers with true NM copies on 1990 were selling them for a lot more than that. That was the major run-up, demand was skyrocketing, and dealers were jacking SA prices daily.

 

Check out some other prices in the 1989 Guide, and then ask a majory dealer is he was selling true NM copies at Guide in 1990.

[jkc313]

Top guide was $125 I presume back then for the TOS 59 (that would mean 10x guide would be $1250) -- Now if top guide in 90 for a TOS 59 was $12.50, then it's my bad.

 

You presume incorrect. Keith meant that 10x guide was the $125 he was charging at the time.

JC is also incorrect in stating that everyone was charging these kind of prices. Yes, dealers like Sparkle City, Keith, Motor City, etc that were at the forefront of the Silver Boom could charge and get those kind of prices, but if you went to a show back then a majority of dealers had their copies of Suspense #58 (and Hulk #181) priced at guide. A great majority of dealers at the start of the Silver boom (90-91) followed the guide religously across the board - of course most of these dealers did not have true NM copies available either so the collector who really wanted one usually had to rely on someone like Keith to locate them a copy and paid full market price.

 

Thank you. $125 was 10X Guide back then and the book inquestion was absolutely stunning. As we all know CGC is a crapshoot at times but this book was nicer than a lot of 9.6's I see running around now. But, the point is NO ONE knows when or IF the market is going to top out. I've heard all the arguments. Kids stopped reading comics in the late 80's so no new blood. Only so many people with enough money to afford higher prices etc. etc. Hell, I've been guilty myself of making comments like "No one will EVER pay 10 grand for a Fantsy 15 even if it's perfect". But the books keep chugging along and get pricier as time goes by. When Showcase 34 was $40 in Guide, I was OFFERING $400 for a NM copy. Same for other Silver. While there probably aren't any true sleepers anymore, high grade Silver seems to always be in demand. Some of the prices are crazy. Didn't a run of the mill number Kirby thor sell for over $10,000 simply because it got a 10.0? That;s nuts but who's to say what the book will sell for now? If all the arguments are true, why do Golden Age books still sell? I'm an "oldtimer" compared to most of you on these boards tey I never saw a GA book on the stands. Still, ask Comiclink how quickly Timelys in low to mid grade sell and at above Guide prices. Cap WWII covers sell quickly as do most other Timelys yet there's almost no one around that bought any of them as a kid. I'm not going to make any predictions but it's a fact that those books I had on the wall in NYC have done infinitely better than my Coke, GE, Intel and Microsoft. I did well in the late 90's selling off my NASDAQ stocks. I wish I had bought more high grade Silver then I did. that said, the JIM 89 in 9.2 and other books like it that I DID buy 4-5 years ago are ALL worth at least triple what I paid. Had I simplt held the books that were in my safety deposit box (like a no bull 9.2 or better AF 15) I could retire

[joe_collector]

I've heard all the arguments. Kids stopped reading comics in the late 80's so no new blood.... But the books keep chugging along and get pricier as time goes by.

 

Ummm.... you do realize that this demographic trend/prediction will take another 6-10 years to materialize, right? right? Do the math.

 

So how can books "keep chugging along"? Do you own a time machine?

[Silverspider]

If anyone is interested in selling their high grade AMS cheap because Hell they won't be worth didly in around 6-10 years anyway please let me know. My 10 year old son would like them.

[joe_collector]

If anyone is interested in selling their high grade AMS cheap because Hell they won't be worth didly in around 6-10 years anyway please let me know.

 

I wondered how long it would take for this retarded comment to surface.

 

If you pay $4K for a comic that later sells for $1K, that is a serious loss, but it doesn't mean the comic is worthless. Not to mention, we're NOT 6-10 years in the future.

[Silverspider]

JC you are one quick dude on the board!

 

Sorry to be sarcastic but your demographic would eventually determine all comics to be worthless or lose most of their current value within 50 odd years?

 

Do you honestly believe that?

 

I think there will always be collectors. Whether they are rekindling their youth or not.

 

My 10 year old son is crazy about comics. In fact so much so he's drivin me nuts!!

I have created a collecting monster!!!!!!!!!

[joe_collector]

Sorry to be sarcastic but your demographic would eventually determine all comics to be worthless or lose most of their current value within 50 odd years?

 

How do you read that into my statements?

 

There will always be collectors, but it's obvious that there will continue to be a larger discrepancy between those old fogeys leaving/retiring/dying and the "new blood" coming in.

 

500 leave this month, 350 new ones come in. In 6-10 years, that'll be 500 collectors leaving, 50 new ones arrive... do the math. There will still be collectors, but only fewer new ones coming into the high-end market.

 

You seem to have this scenario confused with a bizarre idea that comic collecting will mysteriously die out, like the dinosaurs getting hit by a comet.

[Silverspider]

 

There will always be collectors, but it's obvious that there will continue to be a larger discrepancy between those old fogeys leaving/retiring/dying and the "new blood" coming in.

 

 

 

That is why I think we as the "older" collector need to find a way to keep this hobby alive. My 10 year old would not know anything about comics if not for me. I look at the area where I live, there is not a single comic book in a 20 mile radius that can be purchased off the stand except for the odd Archie book or digest. That is the problem with today's kid's not being interested in comics. Why are kids not interested? Because they can't find them! IF this stuff was pushed at them and made available without having to go to some comic store that barely exits I think the hobby would be more sustainable. That and a lower cover price wouldn't hurt either. Video game? 10 Comics? I'll take the game Dad!!!!!

 

Give a kid some comics!!! You just might create some magic there!!!

[joe_collector]

Modern comics have firmly been an adult market for almost 2 decades now, and I can't see that changing. The entire production, distribution and retail markets absolutely love those ultra-high cover prices and the adults that continue to pay the price.

 

But just like sportscards, they and the hobby will pay the ultimate price.

[jkc313]

Modern comics have firmly been an adult market for almost 2 decades now, and I can't see that changing. The entire production, distribution and retail markets absolutely love those ultra-high cover prices and the adults that continue to pay the price.

 

But just like sportscards, they and the hobby will pay the ultimate price.

 

Where do you get off calling anyone retarded? Who are you anyway? Prices keep going up. Is this a concept you find difficult to understand? Do you have a time machine? Why will comics end up like cards? Never have before. My point, to simplify for you, is that in every instance since 1965 everyone that haspredicted a price plateau has been wrong, including me. I have no idea what future prices will be and neither do you. I do know that for 40 years naysayers and prophets of the fall of comic values have been wrong. Individual books will fluctuate but I see books still selling at silly prices and expect that to continue. We are losing numbers of comic book readers but this has been going on since the 50's. Walt Disney's Comics and stories had print runs in the millions. So what? There still appear to be plenty of people willing to spend large sums of money on comics

keith