My Sunday chat with Joe Krolik ( Original Owner of Winnipeg Pedigree)

[ninanina]

As for Doug Sulipa's inventory. It's nothing short of overpriced mid-grade stuff. Always overcharged, just like Joe has, since way back in the day when he owned Comic World on Portage Avenue in that old moldy basement.

Be careful Dad, Sulipa has fanatical supporters on these boards.

 

 

Jason, I've experienced both Joe and Doug and I'm with you 100% in everything you've said on your post.

 

Dad...please don't make unfair comparisions. Doug sells his mid-grades for guide because he can. People trust him. He's not going to sell a $10 book for $5 because he doesn't have to. He doesn't have to because of his reputation. It also puts him in a position where he can buy comics for more money than most dealers will pay you. I know this because I have on many occasions sold him duplicates out of my collection for more money than I could get for them on e-bay. I am saying this from personal experience. The secret is you sell him what he needs...when he needs it not when you need to sell.

 

I don't want to dump on Joe, but will only say he does have in my opinion serious grading issues with the comics he sells. Still, as a business man he does ok. It's not easy running a brick and mortar shop yet somehow he manages. So, congratulations to Joe for making it work. But if anyone has over-priced back - issues, I'd have to say Joe's the one....not Doug.

[Dad&Son-migration]

Dad...please don't make unfair comparisions. Doug sells his mid-grades for guide because he can. People trust him. He's not going to sell a $10 book for $5 because he doesn't have to. He doesn't have to because of his reputation. It also puts him in a position where he can buy comics for more money than most dealers will pay you. I know this because I have on many occasions sold him duplicates out of my collection for more money than I could get for them on e-bay. I am saying this from personal experience. The secret is you sell him what he needs...when he needs it not when you need to sell.

 

I don't want to dump on Joe, but will only say he does have in my opinion serious grading issues with the comics he sells. Still, as a business man he does ok. It's not easy running a brick and mortar shop yet somehow he manages. So, congratulations to Joe for making it work. But if anyone has over-priced back - issues, I'd have to say Joe's the one....not Doug.

 

I'm not making unfair comparisons. I was eluding to 15 years ago in my comment when Comic World was overcharging for mid grade stuff. I will apologize if it seemed like I was dumping on Doug Sulipa in the present manner of speaking. That I have no experience with. I was simply eluding to the past when the internet didn't exist and you had to rely on the store fronts in Winnipeg for stock. I experienced those days and will call a spade a spade when it comes to a shop like Doug and Joe's both overcharging and overgrading back in the day.

[codfish]

Mr. Krolik is the equivalent of Chuck in terms of business model, grading and pricing.

 

Agreed.

 

IMO Mr. Sulipa has no equivalent, but envision grading similar to say, Bob Storms.

 

For selection Sulipa rules the roost but he is not even located in Winnipeg. He relocated to Steinbach and only does the mail order thing and a flea market (the flea market he has no comic though unless you arrange a few days in advance for him to bring stuff there).

 

What you have to realize is that, back in the day the "K" had you by the short ones as Winnipeg really was and still is, a very very isolated market, so collectors didn't know better - if all you eat is dirt then well you might think its caviar. So with limited choices you often found yourself making bad discussions and accepting inferior grading.

 

One it is not as isolated as you make it seem. There has been a great deal of really good books from all ages pass through the city. For a city that has never really exceeded 700,000 in popultion Winnipeg has carried itself fairly well. Enough so that I would not consider it "very very isolated". There are countless areas in Canada and the USA that share the common problem of not having the selection of some of the larger long established US centres.

 

Even Joe Krolik has had and continues to have some really nice stuff ... just very over priced. From the prices one can only assume he is a bad grader but to be completely honest I do not ever hear Joe actually stating grades when I have witnessed him trying to sell books. He just knows that he often has stuff readily available that other storefront dealers do not have.

 

Winnipoeg is also a discount market. Almost every collector wants more for less money than it would normally get almost anywhere else. This attitude hurts dealers (and basement sellers) because if they do not give the discount they get labelled. Many dealers, private or otherwise, will often not even pull out their nice old stuff because they just will not get what the books are worth.

 

There have also always been options to Doug and Joe that I would both call decent graders and sell for decent prices. Some may not be as reasonable price wise any more but the market has changed drastically because of outside pressures such as the big two doing the exclusive distributorship stuff in the 90's and eBay. However, there are still options. Greg Harder (a long time out of home dealer and notoriously strict grader and absolutely a buyer's dealer) and Tony Hazzard for example.

 

Fact is that I have done fairly well in filling my needs locally even with older desires. Winnipeg has a hell of alot more to offer than Calgary which is probably twice the size with a third less storefront options and what is there that is old is poorly graded and very high priced.

 

Two things in closing. If you are going to buy a back issue off of a Dealer in the "peg as its known, your first and only stop should be Sulipa, almost everything else crosses the Rubicon.

 

Not being from this market area I can forgive the comment but can state with confidence that it is incorrect and unfair.

[codfish]

Dad,

 

I am sorry I ever made my initial comment. I don't think you should be punished for respecting whoever you want. While I may not like Joe and always believe what he has to say he certainly has fulfilled the needs of many customers over the years.

 

There were time in the past where I dislike alot of Doug's practises but that changed. I even am far more tolerable of Krolik too because he is absolutley a fanboy as much as he is a business man and if you just talk comics with him and not the business side of things he great fun to talk to. he also has really good ideas on how to finally get a good "convention" set up. Too bad not many folks want to listen to him in this regard because what he has to say is valid.

 

While I have stated that I am not a fan of Krolik I still buy from him (new release only) because very few dealers in the city are willing to take chance on anything their customers do not order. His new release selection is the best. I have to admit that that is what has kept me going in his doors over the years. Not to mention his seasonal sales ... damn good time to pick up those TPBs

 

Anyway peace to you and thanks for not taking any great offense to my "lecturing" my view of Joe is too tainted too often.

[jbud73]

Mr. Krolik is the equivalent of Chuck in terms of business model, grading and pricing.

 

Agreed.

 

IMO Mr. Sulipa has no equivalent, but envision grading similar to say, Bob Storms.

 

For selection Sulipa rules the roost but he is not even located in Winnipeg. He relocated to Steinbach and only does the mail order thing and a flea market (the flea market he has no comic though unless you arrange a few days in advance for him to bring stuff there).

 

What you have to realize is that, back in the day the "K" had you by the short ones as Winnipeg really was and still is, a very very isolated market, so collectors didn't know better - if all you eat is dirt then well you might think its caviar. So with limited choices you often found yourself making bad discussions and accepting inferior grading.

 

One it is not as isolated as you make it seem. There has been a great deal of really good books from all ages pass through the city. For a city that has never really exceeded 700,000 in popultion Winnipeg has carried itself fairly well. Enough so that I would not consider it "very very isolated". There are countless areas in Canada and the USA that share the common problem of not having the selection of some of the larger long established US centres.

 

Even Joe Krolik has had and continues to have some really nice stuff ... just very over priced. From the prices one can only assume he is a bad grader but to be completely honest I do not ever hear Joe actually stating grades when I have witnessed him trying to sell books. He just knows that he often has stuff readily available that other storefront dealers do not have.

 

Winnipoeg is also a discount market. Almost every collector wants more for less money than it would normally get almost anywhere else. This attitude hurts dealers (and basement sellers) because if they do not give the discount they get labelled. Many dealers, private or otherwise, will often not even pull out their nice old stuff because they just will not get what the books are worth.

 

There have also always been options to Doug and Joe that I would both call decent graders and sell for decent prices. Some may not be as reasonable price wise any more but the market has changed drastically because of outside pressures such as the big two doing the exclusive distributorship stuff in the 90's and eBay. However, there are still options. Greg Harder (a long time out of home dealer and notoriously strict grader and absolutely a buyer's dealer) and Tony Hazzard for example.

 

Fact is that I have done fairly well in filling my needs locally even with older desires. Winnipeg has a hell of alot more to offer than Calgary which is probably twice the size with a third less storefront options and what is there that is old is poorly graded and very high priced.

 

Two things in closing. If you are going to buy a back issue off of a Dealer in the "peg as its known, your first and only stop should be Sulipa, almost everything else crosses the Rubicon.

 

Not being from this market area I can forgive the comment but can state with confidence that it is incorrect and unfair.

 

well thanks for your forgiveness - Maybe I should have prefaced my comments. I was born there, raised there went to college there, bought in the market from the time I bought my first back issue (at Comics Paradise aka Styx in the North End BTW - one of Krolik's shops.) I've given, JK, Sulipa, Ferd, Book Fair Gred Harder (I agree great grader), Amazing Books, Red River Exchange and all the other ones that changed names, or went out of business, my business over the years.

 

So I think my frame of reference is pretty good having spent $$$ with all of them. IMO I wouldnt buy a BACK ISSUE off JK unless I was stranded on a desert Island and even then, I'd first try to carve some bark off a Palm Tree,draw on it, thereby creating my own comic and nullifying the need to seek him out.

 

When I say isolated, I mean we were all isolated before internet commerce. Sure there was mail order, but that was sketchy as h-ell. I will also say there were some great store fronts, but for the most part it was overgraded overpriced midgrade stuff, but then again that was the case a lot of places. The problem I had was frame of reference, as Winnipeg is a loooong way from any significant Convention - the first time I went to a significant Con, my whole outlook of what was available changed and my expectations as a consumer rose. And very few dealers back in the 'Peg survived that enlightenment. It is not by coincidence that all of my local back issue business after that time occured with Doug, Greg Harder and Ferd (in that order).

[codfish]

Don't even get me started on Ferd

 

Actually Red River still exists but it is a shadow of its former self.

 

There were lots of places that were and still are isolated since web commerce.

[Dad&Son-migration]

Aaron and Jason, you guys make some great points and I think it's fair to say we've all had the same experiences with every dealer mentioned. It's Winnipeg for goodness sake, not LA or NY. I actually enjoy hearing your views and sharing the stories... Aaron, you're bang on about the new stuff and the sales to buy TPB's at Joe's. I actually pick up the odd statue from time to time to fill my home office with the stuff I love. Spot on about Joe being a fan boy and that's where I enjoy bantering with him. I've told him straight up that his stuff his too pricey, it's no secret. Actually I'm enjoying this thread because all the names bring back memories of being a kid and no need to apologize Aaron, I respect anyone's opinion and believe we all have a right to our opinions whether we agree or disagree.. I'm not looking to change anyone!!!

[Joe Krolik-migration]

A couple of the events cited from the original posting that started this thread are somewhat inaccurate.

 

Other than that, it's very interesting to see what some folks REALLY think when they're smiling to your face.

 

Quite frankly, I never expected I would find someone else gaining a bit of notoriety by recounting their conversation with little old me.

 

I really get a kick out of stuff like that "desert island" comment up there somewhere. Makes you feel that all the work you've put into forwarding the hobby both locally and nationally over the years is really appreciated......or I guess not.

 

So I guess it's time I oughta show up and speak for myself.

 

If anyone wants to find out about me and what I'm REALLY about, please please please, either e-mail me directly at comics_america@mts.net, call me at (204) 489-0580 during store hours, or even drop by and talk to me straight to my face.

 

You'll find I'm approachable, I don't stand for nonsense, and I'll tell it to you straight out.

 

Oh.....by the way.....I do NOT overgrade nor do I overprice. Usually those kind of comments come from folks who

 

a.) think they understand grading and market forces but really don't

b.) try to downgrade the objects they desire to use as a negotiation tool

c.) think that by buying and selling "objects of value" (my sometimes unfortunate opinion of slabbed books) rather than enjoying the content of the books firstly, that it makes them an expert on comics and comics history....which they aren't

d.) criticize without offering an alternative view that has any supportable points of merit

e.) think that their remarks aren't read and enjoyed by the people they criticize.

f.) all of the above

 

Like I said, I don't stand for nonsense.

[Alex DeLarge-migration]

 

Like I said, I don't stand for nonsense.

 

Welcome Joe

[Dad&Son-migration]

Joe, I'm glad to see you came aboard and posted. There are a lot of people who would be interested to learn about you and share stories with you. There are some very affluent folks from the industry here and hopefully a chance to network a little.

To take a quote from your post " A couple of the events cited from the original posting that started this thread are somewhat inaccurate. " With that... I apologize if I didn't quite hit the nail on the head. Reread my original post, and I see I should've said "tell " me and not "show". At any rate, that log in itself would be consider a collector's item by many.

In point c) you discussed the idea of slabbed copies vs. raw and I agree to a point as I only have about 67 slabbed books containing mainly higher graded ST's but that's because I consider those art and I'm very picky about the ST's. But I do have another 9,950 "readers " to choose from in the collection. At any rate...good to see you came out of the shadows on this forum and introduced yourself, hopefully you'll find time to share some of the great stories.

 

Paul

[Silver Surfer]

Joe welcome aboard. I tried to email you a few weeks back but didn't get a reply. I'll send you a PM in the next few weeks, I'm just curious if you have any Canadian prints by Superior Publishers in your collection.

[ninanina]

He then proceeded to pull out a stash of Strange Tales from 102-155 from a collection he bought as I was interested in acquiring some raw books. These copies wouldn't grade any higher then 7.0 but he wants 9.6 prices for them.

 

Nothing wrong with asking for 9.6 prices on books that grade 7.0 as long as the seller is not trying to sell them as NM books. Anybody stupid enough to pay those prices needs a serious reality check.

 

Dad, I've got to ask....during the discussion did Joe specifically tell you what he felt the grades were? Joe did mention some of your statements were "somewhat inaccurate" and perhaps this is one the points the he feels your original post could be taken out of context.

 

Joe,

 

Years ago (and yeah..it was many years ago) I saw a Moon Knight 32 in your display case with a cover quite worn and it had a hole in it. You were asking for NM guide for it or thereabouts at the time. Not sure what you've been doing grading wise in the last 10 - 15 years but seeing that obviously left a lasting impression with me that I carry to this day.

[Dad&Son-migration]

Nothing wrong with asking for 9.6 prices on books that grade 7.0 as long as the seller is not trying to sell them as NM books. Anybody stupid enough to pay those prices needs a serious reality check.

 

Dad, I've got to ask....during the discussion did Joe specifically tell you what he felt the grades were? Joe did mention some of your statements were "somewhat inaccurate" and perhaps this is one the points the he feels your original post could be taken out of context.

 

I totally agree that a seller can ask anything they want and there's nothing wrong with that in my opinion!!! I would love to deal with Joe for back issues and I've told him that but the prices are out of range. Here's an example, I asked Joe how much he wanted for a raw copy of ST #114 that he has. The book had spine wear, in that it had many colour breaking creases, along with a lot of general wear and lower PQ and blunted corners. Please keep in mind this is my observation. Joe looked at the price guide and then told me $800.00 Cdn as a cash deal. I guarantee that no one here would've graded the book higher then a 7.0. Now, for sake of argument, even place the book at 8.0 as everyone differs in opinion. You can still find a copy of ST #114 in 8.0 grade for $250-$300 USD via the internet. I'm sure Joe and I disagree on condition but that's ok. The point I was trying to make is that in today's world of eCommerce and the advant of eBay etc. a buyer has many more alternatives to buying rather then locally. Joe is a great guy in my opinion and I enjoy talking to him but as a business man I can't afford to shell out the money he wants on a lot of books. On the other hand you will find no better selection and diverse product when it comes to finding something you want locally.

[AtlasFan]

Greetings!

I am a casual passer-by and enjoy reading posts in this forum from time to time.

However, I could not pass up the chance to respond to this thread about Joe and the Winnipeg collection. Its nice to see that Joe is still out there!

 

Back in 1994, I would fax out my want list of pre-hero Marvel Monster comics to ny

dealer that had a fax number. I happened to see an ad for Joe Krolik's COMICS AMERICA in an issue of the adzine COMICS SOURCE.

 

To my suprise, he faxed me back an amazing list of pre-hero Marvels and 50's DC scifi all in very high grade. I still have that fax! After a 3 hour phone conversation with Joe (where we went over the condition of each book), I agreed to take a good chunk of his high-grade pre-hero Marvels off his hands. (the only one I turned down was the TTA 27, which I thought was too pricey).

 

As I recall, we haggled a bit over some of the prices and I did return a couple of books that I thought were no up to the grade indicated - which I believe I exchanged for some STRANGE ADVENTURES.

 

A few months later, ads for this collection started to appear. Im not sure when the

"Winnipeg" tag was stuck on to it. Maybe after it was sold to Showcase New England?

 

I still have those books today. Thanks again Joe!

Bill

[nochips]

Greetings!

I am a casual passer-by and enjoy reading posts in this forum from time to time.

However, I could not pass up the chance to respond to this thread about Joe and the Winnipeg collection. Its nice to see that Joe is still out there!

 

Back in 1994, I would fax out my want list of pre-hero Marvel Monster comics to ny

dealer that had a fax number. I happened to see an ad for Joe Krolik's COMICS AMERICA in an issue of the adzine COMICS SOURCE.

 

To my suprise, he faxed me back an amazing list of pre-hero Marvels and 50's DC scifi all in very high grade. I still have that fax! After a 3 hour phone conversation with Joe (where we went over the condition of each book), I agreed to take a good chunk of his high-grade pre-hero Marvels off his hands. (the only one I turned down was the TTA 27, which I thought was too pricey).

 

As I recall, we haggled a bit over some of the prices and I did return a couple of books that I thought were no up to the grade indicated - which I believe I exchanged for some STRANGE ADVENTURES.

 

A few months later, ads for this collection started to appear. Im not sure when the

"Winnipeg" tag was stuck on to it. Maybe after it was sold to Showcase New England?

 

I still have those books today. Thanks again Joe!

Bill

 

Post a few scans. We would love to see these books!

 

Thanks

[Joe Krolik-migration]

Greetings!

I am a casual passer-by and enjoy reading posts in this forum from time to time.

However, I could not pass up the chance to respond to this thread about Joe and the Winnipeg collection. Its nice to see that Joe is still out there!

 

Back in 1994, I would fax out my want list of pre-hero Marvel Monster comics to ny

dealer that had a fax number. I happened to see an ad for Joe Krolik's COMICS AMERICA in an issue of the adzine COMICS SOURCE.

 

To my suprise, he faxed me back an amazing list of pre-hero Marvels and 50's DC scifi all in very high grade. I still have that fax! After a 3 hour phone conversation with Joe (where we went over the condition of each book), I agreed to take a good chunk of his high-grade pre-hero Marvels off his hands. (the only one I turned down was the TTA 27, which I thought was too pricey).

 

As I recall, we haggled a bit over some of the prices and I did return a couple of books that I thought were no up to the grade indicated - which I believe I exchanged for some STRANGE ADVENTURES.

 

A few months later, ads for this collection started to appear. Im not sure when the

"Winnipeg" tag was stuck on to it. Maybe after it was sold to Showcase New England?

 

I still have those books today. Thanks again Joe!

Bill

[Joe Krolik-migration]

Hi Bill:

 

I think I goofed trying to reply to your message further up there. Anyways, thanks for the kind words.

 

The books you got had nothing to do with my own stuff. Ain't that fun?

 

Hopefully your comments will allay anyone's suggestions that I don't know about grading.

 

Thanks again.

[Joe Krolik-migration]

I guarantee that no one here would've graded the book higher then a 7.0.

 

Again the expert speaks.

 

Dig Dig Dig Dig Dig............

[Joe Krolik-migration]

 

Years ago (and yeah..it was many years ago) I saw a Moon Knight 32 in your display case with a cover quite worn and it had a hole in it. You were asking for NM guide for it or thereabouts at the time. Not sure what you've been doing grading wise in the last 10 - 15 years but seeing that obviously left a lasting impression with me that I carry to this day.

 

Hi Herb.

 

The first question that comes to mind is why the heck a Moon Knight 32 would EVER be in a display case anyways? I don't recall the incident, but it sounds kinda weird. Maybe it was the rare "gold ink, double-printed, embossed, foil, sandwich dressing variant"?

 

Can you remember anything else about that? Maybe it was sitting on top of another book that had a price tag showing and you saw the tag but didn't realize it applied to the book underneath?

 

I dunno, because as far as I know, Moon Knight #32 would go for something like $2 to $3 at best. Was it Moon Knight, or more correctly BLACK Knight? That would be Maneely and those are kind of scarce even to this day.

 

Whatever, you oughta come by for a coffee sometime.

[Joe Krolik-migration]

And on that happy note, did Black Knight ever get to #2? I don't think so. In fact, it only went to #5.

 

So the mystery deepens!

 

buhbuhbuh Buuuhhh (my best in-print rendition of a sudden, dark mood climax)

 

oy......