Would you consider these 2 "procedures" restoration ???

[showcase4]

will cgc even grade a book of that age? if not......there is nothing to worry about.

 

 

not really a "what would CGC say" question.....more of a "what do you guys think" question...even though I know were your coming from

[joe_collector]

This is pressing...is pressing restoration?

 

You obviously know that is NOT pressing, but simple stacking.

 

That is, unless you stacked your comics to the moon while applying heat and moisture to the mix.

[ciorac]

everyone's favorite topic: restoration !...or is it?

 

I have 2 different comic books right now that I am taking thru 2 different "procedures". Of course, if I ever sold, I would disclose this to any potential buyer, and in both cases, the goal is to improve the look of the book....so keeping disclosure out of it ( because these books are keepers), I would like to know if you would consider either of these 2 procedures "restoration". It seems to be a "gray" area, whereas color touch, tear seals, staple replacement, etc etc are not.

 

book #1 - I have placed in a sleeve with no backing board, and I have it placed towards the bottom of a stack of smooth ceramic tiles. The goal is to make the cover as flat as possible, and thru the pressure of the stack, hopefully minimize minor cover creasing ( the book is a VG+ ).There is no heat or mechanical device involved...just a stack of tiles. Would you consider this restoration?

 

book#2 - (pictured below)..I have a conservator removing tape placed on the spine many years ago( not by me). She is applying a chemical that will disolve the adhesive of the tape. She is performing no other work to the book....nothing but tape removal.

Would you consider this restoration?

 

 

1. Yes

2. Yes

[drbanner]

This is pressing...is pressing restoration?

 

You obviously know that is NOT pressing, but simple stacking.

 

Does CGC consider stacking restoration?

 

It's not on their website, so I think I'll start a thread or seventeen about undisclosed stacking!!

[Shield]

Showcase, where are the comic books? I don't see any here, just comic pamphlets!

 

Shield...I love you !!!

 

I figured you'd get a kick out of that.

[joe_collector]

It's not on their website, so I think I'll start a thread or seventeen about undisclosed stacking!!

 

Nah, you'll just keep being a total dork by comparing comic stacking to professional pressing.

[ciorac]

It's not on their website, so I think I'll start a thread or seventeen about undisclosed stacking!!

 

Nah, you'll just keep being a total dork by comparing comic stacking to professional pressing.

 

I sometimes stack my comics when I read them. But not under heavy tiles with the intention of flattening them out...

 

Professional or amateur, any attempt to increase the appearance of a comic by exerting external stimuli, apparatus, pressure, heat, color, glue, tape, etc, etc, is a form of restoration.

 

Splitting hairs is silly.

 

As most of you know, I buy restored books, I get books restored, I just don't kid myself that replacing rusty staples, or pressing a book, or dry cleaning it, or erasing a name from the cover is not restoration. And I don't buy that conservation/preservation *spoon* either. "I only sealed the tear to keep it from getting worse, so that does not count as restoration"

 

nonsense

 

The only conservation/preservation I can subscribe to are good storage techniques. Then you are trying to conserve/preserve the current state of the book by using an acid free backing board, a mylar, keeping them in a cool dry space, etc.

[divad]

This is pressing...is pressing restoration?

 

You obviously know that is NOT pressing, but simple stacking.

 

Does CGC consider stacking restoration?

 

It's not on their website, so I think I'll start a thread or seventeen about undisclosed stacking!!

 

trouble-maker

 

 

 

[drbanner]

It's not on their website, so I think I'll start a thread or seventeen about undisclosed stacking!!

 

Nah, you'll just keep being a total dork by comparing comic stacking to professional pressing.

 

You don't consider placing a book at the bottom of "a stack of smooth ceramic tiles with the goal of making the cover as flat as possible thru the pressure of the stack in order to minimize minor cover creasing" pressing? Instead, you think it should be called "comic stacking"?

 

You need to read the thread again my friend - there's only one comic book in this stack, and it's the one that's being pressed.

[Theagenes]

Removing tape with a hot air gun and tweezers is not resto, IMO. Removing it with a chemical solvent is most defininately resto (or conservation really IMO).

 

Steve, this book is so scarce that having the tape removed will probably not affect it's value very much and you will be preventing the tape from damaging the paper any further. In this case of this book it was a wise decision IMO. Don't worry about what label people want to put on the work - you did the right thing.

[showcase4]

I sometimes stack my comics when I read them. But not under heavy tiles with the intention of flattening them out...

 

Professional or amateur, any attempt to increase the appearance of a comic by exerting external stimuli, apparatus, pressure, heat, color, glue, tape, etc, etc, is a form of restoration.

 

I hear you Bill....the very conservative " any attempt to increase the appearance" definition. My own thoughts on these 2 issues ( keeping my own 2 books out of it ) would be as follows:

 

1. book under a stack of something: not restoration. Although it is intentional, nothing is being "done" to the book....no human hands are performing any technique or proccess. The forces at work are natural - pressure and time. It's kinda like, if there is no human intervention, then it's not resto....just a little help from gravity and physics.

 

2. professional tape removal using chemicals: much tougher one. Only one other Member felt as I do (Timulty) ....I would consider it "restoration removal" and not "restoration".

 

The fact that their is human intervention and the use of chemicals means that word "restoration" has to be in there somewhere, but in this case, a proccess is performed to remove something attached to the book that was not originally there. So an "after market" material ( tape...AKA in this case a poor mans restoration ) is being seperated from and removed form the book....the proccess is not to enhance the appearance of the book...it is to remove a foreign object, so as to take the book back to its original combination of materials used to 1st create it. The book is just being returned to its original appearance (not bound with tape), and nothing is being done to enhance its appearance.....restoration removal for me.

[joe_collector]

Professional or amateur, any attempt to increase the appearance of a comic by exerting external stimuli, apparatus, pressure, heat, color, glue, tape, etc, etc, is a form of restoration.

 

Splitting hairs is silly.

 

No it isn't. One (stacking) is a scenario that *could* happen without intent, while the other (pro pressing) could *never* *ever* happen just naturally.

[joe_collector]

It's not on their website, so I think I'll start a thread or seventeen about undisclosed stacking!!

 

Nah, you'll just keep being a total dork by comparing comic stacking to professional pressing.

 

Whoa, how can people misread this?

 

The *point* is that I, and others, are growing tired of blowhards constantly equating comic stacking (or tile stacking or X stacking) as THE EXACT SAME PROCEDURE as Pro Pressing, when they are world's apart.

 

That's it.

 

Placing a stack of tiles onto a comic is NOT the same as sending it to Matt for a pro press, and if you think it is, then you're totally .

[drbanner]

Too funny Joe..."tile stacking or X stacking", you're killing me here!

[Flaming_Telepath]

2. professional tape removal using chemicals: much tougher one. Only one other Member felt as I do (Timulty) ....I would consider it "restoration removal" and not "restoration".

 

As the application of tape is not considered 'restoration', but actually damage, I can't see how it can be classified as 'restoration removal'?

 

Rather, the tape is 'damage' and the removal of 'damage' is considered 'restoration'.

[THE_BEYONDER]

How is the addition of tape on your book considered restoration?

[langur88]

1. No

 

2. No

 

The first is adding nothing to the book itself.

 

and the second has subtracted nothing that is the book itself.

You have removed a foreign object.

[langur88]

 

 

if the tape is removed only then it is not restoration but when any imbedded stains are being removed then at that point it is restoration.

 

makes a lot of sense.

[showcase4]

How is the addition of tape on your book considered restoration?

 

good question.....and the answer is, I don't know what else to call it as the purpose was, in this case, to seal a splitting spine. Tape has always had this "get out of jail free" card with our hobby....it is exempt from being considered resto if it is to seal a tear, but glue is considered resto if it is used for the same purpose.

 

So if we don't call tape resto on this book, then what do we call tape removal? Is that resto? tape removal? non- resto removal of a foreign object?..and goes back to my original question of....is tape removal resto if nothing else is done to the book?

 

 

and next we have the one I forget to mention at the beginning of the post....this one really messes with my head. I have erased a name from the front of a book with a vinyl eraser...the name was written in pencil ( not by me )

 

would you consider the proccess of erasing the name restoration?

[Ze-man]

1. No

 

2. No

 

The first is not adding anything to the book itself.

 

The second is simply removing something that has become attached to the book. It just so happens they are doing so carefully with a chemical. But if a 5 year old kid ripped the tape off by hand would that be restoration? No. It seems like people are more concerned with the process of what is being done, rather then what the process actually does in the end. If the chemical in anyway whitens the cover then that is another story. But if the premise is given that ONLY the tape is being removed with no influences to the book itself, then I would not consider it "restoration". Removing a stain would be restoration because you are actually altering the appearance of the book. Removing tape is taking something away that was not imbedded in the book in the first place.

 

That's pretty much wrong. The adhesive on that tape is almost certainly embedded in the paper fibers, and may even be cross-linked at this point because the tape looks very old (which means the tape stain could be impossible to remove completely). If Susan uses a solvent to dissolve the tape adhesive, it will be removed (at least partially) from the paper fibers. Also, the tape carrier itself (the plastic film) is a defect and it is being removed. That's restoration. It is also distinguishable from a 5-year-old (or an 18-year-old) yanking the tape off by hand and taking a layer of attached paper with it. That's not "restoration," that's damage because it is not returning the book to a prior known or assumed state.

 

Very nicely explained. Bravo.

 

I was going to post a long reply explaining exactly what Scott just wrote. Thank you for saving me the time Scott, I agree with your take on the matter.

 

 

Also if mechanicle pressing is not considered resto, then stacking books with heavy objects on top of them certainly is not either.As was already said..it does not do much good unless the books were in terrific shape to start with.

 

 

Ze-