Late Reserves in the Heritage auction?

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

So, I'm tracking a number of items in the November Heritage Signature auction, including the two Sub-Mariner # 1s. Last night, after the Reserves post, both of the Subbys show up as "No Reserve" books.

 

This morning, they are still "No Reserve" books (albeit, with some fairly weak bids so far).

 

Less than an hour ago, I check them again, and now they have significant reserve amounts posted.

 

Now, I don't know who owns the books (whether they are Heritage owned or actual consignment books or both), and I can understand not wanting to risk taking a large financial hit, but if you want to place a Reserve on an item, do so from the get-go.

 

Don't change the rules of the game midway because the results aren't favorable to you.

 

And Heritage wonders why they are losing bidders/customers left and right?

 

[sacentaur]

Exactly - there was a nice EC romance book earlier this year where my bid met the Reserve, only to see it jump significantly a few days before the auction ended.

 

The book later allegedly sold in one of their post-auction sales. Perhaps I should check the Lewis Wayne Gallery to see if it's there.

 

Too much monkey business going on in Dallas for me...

 

STEVE

[Silver Surfer]

I could be wrong but I highly doubt that the average joe who has books listed for sale in this auction has the ability to request a reserve half way through a no reserve auction. Boy if they are monitoring bids levels and inserting reserves at their discretion what else are they up to.

[sacentaur]

When I complained, the only explanation I rec'd was that they 'discourage consignors from placing late reserves'.

 

Whatever that means...

 

STEVE

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

When I complained, the only explanation I rec'd was that they 'discourage consignors from placing late reserves'.

 

Whatever that means...

 

STEVE

 

Exactly. Three of the books I was tracking went from 'No Reserve' to Reserve today. Are you telling me the consignors waited all this time to modify their reserves? The first ten days of limited bidding wasn't convincing enough? Why not place it before the Reserves are posted to avoid any appearance of impropriety? I mean, why would consignors wait until the Reserves of other books posted to place a reserve of their own? Something's just not right....

[Thegoldenage]

Maybe a related story, maybe not.

 

Sunday night around 9:30 (8:30 at Heritage) I placed a bid on a book in the Amazing Auction. It was at 200, and I bid 350. I was high bidder at 225 or so. Within 5 minutes I got an e-mail that I was outbid. I went back in and re-bid, and eventually won the book. I thought it strange that I was outbid so fast, and with so much time remaining in the auction. Coincedence? Dunno.

[tth2]

When I complained, the only explanation I rec'd was that they 'discourage consignors from placing late reserves'.

 

Whatever that means...

 

STEVE

They really do. Ed will talk your ear off for about 30 minutes to try to persuade you why reserves aren't necessary.

[tth2]

Maybe a related story, maybe not.

 

Sunday night around 9:30 (8:30 at Heritage) I placed a bid on a book in the Amazing Auction. It was at 200, and I bid 350. I was high bidder at 225 or so. Within 5 minutes I got an e-mail that I was outbid. I went back in and re-bid, and eventually won the book. I thought it strange that I was outbid so fast, and with so much time remaining in the auction. Coincedence? Dunno.

The probability of someone else scanning through the listings at 9:30 on a Sunday night would be pretty high.

 

Factor in the additional possibility that the previous high bidder received an email when you outbid him, so he instantly went back in and put in a new bid. Hell, maybe he was thinking the same thing you are, when his second bid ultimately got beaten by you!

[Thegoldenage]

Good points. It is nice to get another perspective.

[tth2]

So, I'm tracking a number of items in the November Heritage Signature auction, including the two Sub-Mariner # 1s. Last night, after the Reserves post, both of the Subbys show up as "No Reserve" books.

 

This morning, they are still "No Reserve" books (albeit, with some fairly weak bids so far).

 

Less than an hour ago, I check them again, and now they have significant reserve amounts posted.

 

Now, I don't know who owns the books (whether they are Heritage owned or actual consignment books or both), and I can understand not wanting to risk taking a large financial hit, but if you want to place a Reserve on an item, do so from the get-go.

 

Don't change the rules of the game midway because the results aren't favorable to you.

 

And Heritage wonders why they are losing bidders/customers left and right?

 

I can`t speak for all the books where this happened, but I knew the consignor (it was not Heritage, and no, it`s not a euphemism for myself) of one of the books that had a late reserve appear. After I read your post, I sent him an email to find out the story. He said he in fact had a reserve agreed with Heritage, which was on the consignment agreement and consignment confirm that they sent to him just recently. When reserves were supposed to go into effect, he saw that his book said No Reserve. He notified Heritage, who said it was a mistake on their part. Heritage rectified the error, which caused the reserve to go into effect later than the scheduled time. Error, yes. Conspiracy or nefarious plan, no.

[FFB]

So, I'm tracking a number of items in the November Heritage Signature auction, including the two Sub-Mariner # 1s. Last night, after the Reserves post, both of the Subbys show up as "No Reserve" books.

 

This morning, they are still "No Reserve" books (albeit, with some fairly weak bids so far).

 

Less than an hour ago, I check them again, and now they have significant reserve amounts posted.

 

Now, I don't know who owns the books (whether they are Heritage owned or actual consignment books or both), and I can understand not wanting to risk taking a large financial hit, but if you want to place a Reserve on an item, do so from the get-go.

 

Don't change the rules of the game midway because the results aren't favorable to you.

 

And Heritage wonders why they are losing bidders/customers left and right?

 

I can`t speak for all the books where this happened, but I knew the consignor (it was not Heritage, and no, it`s not a euphemism for myself) of one of the books that had a late reserve appear. After I read your post, I sent him an email to find out the story. He said he in fact had a reserve agreed with Heritage, which was on the consignment agreement and consignment confirm that they sent to him just recently. When reserves were supposed to go into effect, he saw that his book said No Reserve. He notified Heritage, who said it was a mistake on their part. Heritage rectified the error, which caused the reserve to go into effect later than the scheduled time. Error, yes. Conspiracy or nefarious plan, no.

 

Another beautiful theory murdered by a brutal gang of facts.

[sacentaur]

Another beautiful theory murdered by a brutal gang of facts.

 

Hardly - one book does not an auction make.

 

And how many other "errors" from Heritage do we have to constantly deal with?

 

Their abysmal grading in the last auction should have been a clue.

 

STEVE

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

So, I'm tracking a number of items in the November Heritage Signature auction, including the two Sub-Mariner # 1s. Last night, after the Reserves post, both of the Subbys show up as "No Reserve" books.

 

This morning, they are still "No Reserve" books (albeit, with some fairly weak bids so far).

 

Less than an hour ago, I check them again, and now they have significant reserve amounts posted.

 

Now, I don't know who owns the books (whether they are Heritage owned or actual consignment books or both), and I can understand not wanting to risk taking a large financial hit, but if you want to place a Reserve on an item, do so from the get-go.

 

Don't change the rules of the game midway because the results aren't favorable to you.

 

And Heritage wonders why they are losing bidders/customers left and right?

 

I can`t speak for all the books where this happened, but I knew the consignor (it was not Heritage, and no, it`s not a euphemism for myself) of one of the books that had a late reserve appear. After I read your post, I sent him an email to find out the story. He said he in fact had a reserve agreed with Heritage, which was on the consignment agreement and consignment confirm that they sent to him just recently. When reserves were supposed to go into effect, he saw that his book said No Reserve. He notified Heritage, who said it was a mistake on their part. Heritage rectified the error, which caused the reserve to go into effect later than the scheduled time. Error, yes. Conspiracy or nefarious plan, no.

 

Another beautiful theory murdered by a brutal gang of facts.

 

I think you need to pack up your bag of blind naiviety and take it somewhere else Scott. I am tracking a mere 13 books, of which, 3 got tagged with these Late Reserves....that's nearly a quarter. How many more are there? Do you really care or is any explanation that diverts attention away from Heritage's practices good enough for you?

 

I know you like to explain/rationalize away every inconsistency by Heritage/CGC/"insert dirtbag dealer name here" as an innocent oversight, but on occasion, spare those of us with some intelligence, will ya?

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

So, I'm tracking a number of items in the November Heritage Signature auction, including the two Sub-Mariner # 1s. Last night, after the Reserves post, both of the Subbys show up as "No Reserve" books.

 

This morning, they are still "No Reserve" books (albeit, with some fairly weak bids so far).

 

Less than an hour ago, I check them again, and now they have significant reserve amounts posted.

 

Now, I don't know who owns the books (whether they are Heritage owned or actual consignment books or both), and I can understand not wanting to risk taking a large financial hit, but if you want to place a Reserve on an item, do so from the get-go.

 

Don't change the rules of the game midway because the results aren't favorable to you.

 

And Heritage wonders why they are losing bidders/customers left and right?

 

I can`t speak for all the books where this happened, but I knew the consignor (it was not Heritage, and no, it`s not a euphemism for myself) of one of the books that had a late reserve appear. After I read your post, I sent him an email to find out the story. He said he in fact had a reserve agreed with Heritage, which was on the consignment agreement and consignment confirm that they sent to him just recently. When reserves were supposed to go into effect, he saw that his book said No Reserve. He notified Heritage, who said it was a mistake on their part. Heritage rectified the error, which caused the reserve to go into effect later than the scheduled time. Error, yes. Conspiracy or nefarious plan, no.

 

Understood Tim, and I accept that explanation as a rational one. However, as you mentioned, it doesn't neccesarily account for all the Late Reserve books. Heritage is not doing itself any favors by either:

 

1). forgetting to assign reserves as agreed with consignors (an oversight like that shouldn't be on the consignor to notice)

 

or

 

2). Allowing consignors to place Late Reserves after the Reserves for all books have already posted, especially when its on books that have had very weak bidding. At best, its a PR problem when threads like this get started and people start to complain.

 

And Scott, you are now on this Board Committee...please, PLEASE approach every conoversial issue with a healthy dose of skepticism and an open mind. Your post was annoying because you seem so quick to write off every issue with Heritage as a non-issue before even bothering to consider all the facts. Tim offered an explanation that accounted for the reserve being added for one book, not all the books. At best, its sloppy administration by Heritage. At worst, its CYA in the face of weak bid prospects.

 

If neither is a problem for you, that's fine. Not everyone in this thread obviously feels the same.

[FFB]

So, I'm tracking a number of items in the November Heritage Signature auction, including the two Sub-Mariner # 1s. Last night, after the Reserves post, both of the Subbys show up as "No Reserve" books.

 

This morning, they are still "No Reserve" books (albeit, with some fairly weak bids so far).

 

Less than an hour ago, I check them again, and now they have significant reserve amounts posted.

 

Now, I don't know who owns the books (whether they are Heritage owned or actual consignment books or both), and I can understand not wanting to risk taking a large financial hit, but if you want to place a Reserve on an item, do so from the get-go.

 

Don't change the rules of the game midway because the results aren't favorable to you.

 

And Heritage wonders why they are losing bidders/customers left and right?

 

I can`t speak for all the books where this happened, but I knew the consignor (it was not Heritage, and no, it`s not a euphemism for myself) of one of the books that had a late reserve appear. After I read your post, I sent him an email to find out the story. He said he in fact had a reserve agreed with Heritage, which was on the consignment agreement and consignment confirm that they sent to him just recently. When reserves were supposed to go into effect, he saw that his book said No Reserve. He notified Heritage, who said it was a mistake on their part. Heritage rectified the error, which caused the reserve to go into effect later than the scheduled time. Error, yes. Conspiracy or nefarious plan, no.

 

Understood Tim, and I accept that explanation as a rational one. However, as you mentioned, it doesn't neccesarily account for all the Late Reserve books. Heritage is not doing itself any favors by either:

 

1). forgetting to assign reserves as agreed with consignors (an oversight like that shouldn't be on the consignor to notice)

 

or

 

2). Allowing consignors to place Late Reserves after the Reserves for all books have already posted, especially when its on books that have had very weak bidding. At best, its a PR problem when threads like this get started and people start to complain.

 

And Scott, you are now on this Board Committee...please, PLEASE approach every conoversial issue with a healthy dose of skepticism and an open mind. Your post was annoying because you seem so quick to write off every issue with Heritage as a non-issue before even bothering to consider all the facts. Tim offered an explanation that accounted for the reserve being added for one book, not all the books. At best, its sloppy administration by Heritage. At worst, its CYA in the face of weak bid prospects.

 

If neither is a problem for you, that's fine. Not everyone in this thread obviously feels the same.

 

I approach every Heritage issue as a non-issue? No, I just don't fly into conspiracy theory mode every time something happens and assume that Heritage is always trying to screw the little guy. If you had any real evidence of wrongdoing or nefarious motives, I would have responded differently. But as a short French guy once said, never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

 

As for my appointment on the board committee, people know who I am and what I am about. I'm not going to change that just because you think I should. Hey, I got 35 votes for being this way!

[1koko]

Guys,

 

I wouldn't be overly suspicious of Heritage's motives when it come to late reserves. It is at worst a bad marketing ploy. Low ball bidders think they have a chance of buyer the comic at a price well below market even though in reality this is not the case. They do thsi to encorage bidding wars so that the final aucton price in many cases performs better than e-bay (where reserves seem to discourage high prices as less people bid).

 

They allow the consignors to place reserves up to about 5 days from the end of the auction.

It is at this cut-off point that Heritage actually puts the reserves on the auctions. If an auction has already exceeded the consignor's reserve or he doesn't elect to have a reserve you see the no reserve lable on the auction.

 

Otherwise thebid is automatically raised to the reserve level and next bid will meet reserve.

 

Whether the comic is Heritages or another consignors the reserve is only included at the cut-off point.

[1koko]

later reserves appearing is usually due to errors. They have had inaccurate descriptions and sometimes failed to post reserves when required on my comics.

[sacentaur]

...never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

 

Scott, you read my mind as I was going to post the same thing before reading your reply.

 

The point is that neither malice or ongoing incompetence should be tolerated, and in my opinion I've seen too many conistent indicators of both from Heritage.

 

As long as collectors continue to throw money at them, there is no incentive to change.

 

STEVE

[tth2]

...never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

 

Scott, you read my mind as I was going to post the same thing before reading your reply.

 

The point is that neither malice or ongoing incompetence should be tolerated, and in my opinion I've seen too many conistent indicators of both from Heritage.

 

As long as collectors continue to throw money at them, there is no incentive to change.

 

STEVE

There are over 2000 listings in this auction alone. I would be surprised if no mistakes were made. Should Heritage be more careful? Absolutely. But I would certainly say that incompetence is the lesser evil compared to a grand conspiracy to defraud their customers.

[jkrk]

There are over 2000 listings in this auction alone. I would be surprised if no mistakes were made. Should Heritage be more careful? Absolutely. But I would certainly say that incompetence is the lesser evil compared to a grand conspiracy to defraud their customers.

 

 

A conspiracy? Probably not. I can't imagine the reward is that great? The story Certainly is not on par with who killed JFK?

 

How about disappearing feature listings like # 45291 WHICH SAYS---

 

"This lot has been withdrawn from this auction. Bids are no longer accepted and previous bids are cancelled".

 

The auction was for one of the feature listings and there is probably is a good explanation but agaiin we are seeing another mishap, with an auction cancelled in the middle of the bidding process. I guess next we will see an item sell at auction with no book in house to ship? Perhaps if commissions are raised we might see a smoother auction?