Wizard hypes the Bronze Age

[500Club]

It was treated as a typo the next issue, when it was corrected. Also, I'm not sure I buy the 'nuff said' angle. That event passed by with little interest in the stores and media I was exposed to.

[Aman619]

Ive seen #34 on the wall at the local store stickered for $35...and #36 for $20!...ungraded

[500Club]

Is it selling...? Or has it been there for four months?

[buena_vista]

See, the difference between the silver age and the bronze age is that most of the Marvel mainstream books in the 70's were really bad. The innovative creators were, for the most part, worked on the less popular books. Writers Thomas, Wein, Wolfman et al really reduced Marvel's top books to just plain silly. FF, Spidey, Thor, Hulk -- all of those books were so over the top. The good titles never really went anywhere pricewise (besides the X-men, of course). The Perez Avengers, Starlin's Captain Marvel & Warlock, Claremont/Byrne MTU, MOKF etc are really good books.

 

I hope the new interest will spark a higher value in the quality books.

[Foolkiller]

The Avengers is a Marvel mainstream book that was decent (at points) in the 70s... Marvel team up was a mainstream book (it starred spidey) and the claremont/byrne x-men... so I think there were some bronze mainstream books that were pretty good during the bronze (not as prolific as the silver age, I agree there)...

[blowout]

most of the Marvel mainstream books in the 70's were really bad

 

To say that all the Bronze mainstream books were really bad is way off the mark, there were some great mainstream runs in the Bronze age.

The ASM Bronze Age run from 96-150 is only surpased by the Lee/Ditko stint IMO.

[buena_vista]

most of the Marvel mainstream books in the 70's were really bad

 

To say that all the Bronze mainstream books were really bad is way off the mark, there were some great mainstream runs in the Bronze age.

The ASM Bronze Age run from 96-150 is only surpased by the Lee/Ditko stint IMO.

 

I can't believe you're actually saying that. Sure, there were a few good stories but overall, once Stan Lee left the title, it was really bad. The whole Gwen Stacy/Goblin deaths story was to help sagging sales. The Punisher seems to be the only good thing created in that run.

 

So, which stories did you like from that run? The first clone story? Maybe it was the great new villians like the Kangaroo, the Gibbon or the Jackal? No, I got it, it must have been the great dialogue by Gerry Conway & Roy Thomas. Those guys used melodrama like it was their middle name. I was never a real Ross Andru fan either. His figures looked stiff and his faces/closeups were ugly. (he had some good designs though).

 

You're telling me that was a better run than the Roger Stern run in the 80's?

[drbanner]

The Harry Osborne story that run through the 120's and 130's was cool, I liked the 1st clone saga, loved the art during this period...yep, I agree - Spidey 100-150 is a classic run of comic books.

[shadroch]

as someone who has read just about every Marvel comic from the start of the Silver Age thru about 1993, I would say that overall the mid-70s era may be the best in overall quality. The arc of Captain America where he becomes Nomad, the reintroduction of the Xmen,The death of Gwen Stacy, the Avengers-Defenders war,the Bryne Iron Fist,Starlins Captain Marvel and the Thanos saga,The Master of Kung Fu . Every month bought new surprises in an expanding universe that was not yet drowning in a backlog of continuity problems.

[awe4one]

as someone who has read just about every Marvel comic from the start of the Silver Age thru about 1993, I would say that overall the mid-70s era may be the best in overall quality. The arc of Captain America where he becomes Nomad, the reintroduction of the Xmen,The death of Gwen Stacy, the Avengers-Defenders war,the Bryne Iron Fist,Starlins Captain Marvel and the Thanos saga,The Master of Kung Fu . Every month bought new surprises in an expanding universe that was not yet drowning in a backlog of continuity problems.

 

I agree....and what made these issues as enjoyable as they were? Continuity. All the titles during that time used continuity to their advantage. You knew Gwen was dead but how could she show back up? You always had Harry's past drug problems in the back of your mind as he took up his father's mantle. Seeing what Captain America was going through when he decided to forgo his title and become Nomad. All of these stories (and the others you mentioned) stuck to what happened before to drive their stories.

 

I understand the anti-continuity crowd's complaint of muddled storylines, bogging down of titles, etc.....but boy...do I miss those days.....

 

 

Jim

[delekkerste]

I can't believe you're actually saying that. Sure, there were a few good stories but overall, once Stan Lee left the title, it was really bad...No, I got it, it must have been the great dialogue by Gerry Conway & Roy Thomas. Those guys used melodrama like it was their middle name...I was never a real Ross Andru fan either. His figures looked stiff and his faces/closeups were ugly...You're telling me that was a better run than the Roger Stern run in the 80's?

 

I don't even know where to start with this one! If you want melodramatic, hackneyed dialogue, Stan Lee practically invented it. If you want stiff figures, be honest with yourself and look at Ditko's work on Spidey. I applaud Ditko's genius in creating the characters and his innovative layouts, but I'm sorry, his figure work has not survived the test of time (his style is "classic", but far from "timeless"...a big distinction.)

 

The Roger Stern run of the '80s was pretty good overall, but the stories did not match the '70s tales and Ron Frenz, JR JR and the other Spidey artists of the '80s did not even come close to matching Andru's work. Andru is so underrated it's not funny...after Romita Sr., he's #2 on my list of all-time Spidey artists...I much prefer his appealing, generally realistic style over the likes of Ditko and McFarlane, which exhibit different variations of "cartooniness".

 

ASM in the '70s was an incredibly solid title...I can only imagine what it would have been like to read these amazing stories month after month with nary a disappointment in sight. The drug issues (#96-#98) are among my favorites from Stan Lee's run and the "death" issues (#121-#122) make up probably my favorite comic story of all time. People knock clones now, but the original clone saga (#144-#149) was one of the best comic stories I've ever read - it was just when Peter was starting to hook up with MJ, and then suddenly Gwen reappears? Professor Warren turns out to be the Jackal...outstanding!!

 

Gene

[underthebigw]

FF, Spidey, Thor, Hulk -- all of those books were so over the top.

 

You gotta be kidding me....

 

Man, am I glad some others have jumped to Andru's defense. His run on ASM is more than solid and underappreciated. In fact, in my mind, the book was never the same once he stopped working on it.

 

And, in my mind at least, overall, the books from the 70's blow away those from the decades preceeding of following. Do not underestimate how many truly bad and uninspired books were published, by all publishers including Marvel and DC, during the 80's.

[buena_vista]

I don't even know where to start with this one! If you want melodramatic, hackneyed dialogue, Stan Lee practically invented it. If you want stiff figures, be honest with yourself and look at Ditko's work on Spidey. I applaud Ditko's genius in creating the characters and his innovative layouts, but I'm sorry, his figure work has not survived the test of time (his style is "classic", but far from "timeless"...a big distinction.)

 

ASM in the '70s was an incredibly solid title...I can only imagine what it would have been like to read these amazing stories month after month with nary a disappointment in sight. The drug issues (#96-#98) are among my favorites from Stan Lee's run and the "death" issues (#121-#122) make up probably my favorite comic story of all time. People knock clones now, but the original clone saga (#144-#149) was one of the best comic stories I've ever read - it was just when Peter was starting to hook up with MJ, and then suddenly Gwen reappears? Professor Warren turns out to be the Jackal...outstanding!!

 

Yes, Stan did invent the melodrama in comics but most writers who followed him tried to do dialogue Stan's way -- and failed with awful results. Conway, Wein & Wolfman had so many stupid phrases that it wasn't even funny. Andru was at the end of his career --- his panel art became so stiff and predictable by the time he finished his run and handed the strip over to Keith Pollard, (another mediocre penciller) it was a blessing for the "webbed menace" . Espisito's inks didn't help any either.

 

I really like how you determine an entire decade's worth of books based on 11 books.The plots were awful, for the most part. Maybe it was Doc Ock marrying Aunt May saga that really turned me off. It could have been Green Goblin III or the aformentioned Kangaroo, Gibbon and Big Wheel that finally made me trade most of my Spidey 70's books.

[PovertyRow]

Anyone else see the article? Thoughts? Opinions?

 

Didn;t see article. Have only one thought and one opinion from knowing "wizard" from their beginnings and the ocassional peek at - why would anyone put stock in them?

[delekkerste]

I really like how you determine an entire decade's worth of books based on 11 books.

 

And I really like how you twist the meaning of my post...those are just my 3 favorite storylines, but there were plenty of other classics in that run (intro. of Morbius (#101-#102), intro and return of the Punisher (#129, #135), Harry Osborn becoming the Green Goblin (#127-#137), etc.) Many of the other stories were solid, if not spectacular...I personally loved the Savage Land two-parter from #103-#104, the Vulture storyline from #127-#128, the Shocker storyline from the early #150s, the Nightcrawler/Punisher issues from #161-#162...

 

Gene

[blowout]

I really like how you determine an entire decade's worth of books based on 11 books.The plots were awful, for the most part. Maybe it was Doc Ock marrying Aunt May saga that really turned me off. It could have been Green Goblin III or the aformentioned Kangaroo, Gibbon and Big Wheel that finally made me trade most of my Spidey 70's books.

 

I actually agree with you in that ASM did become quite pedestrian after #151 (late 70's) and didn't really get back to form until the Hobgoblin saga in the 80's.

 

I really think that you should go back and re-read issues 96-150 though, it was a classic run.

Some great stroylines and characters introduced: Morbius, Hammerhead, Punisher, Green Goblin II, Jackal. Even the introduction of characters like the Gibbon and Kangaroo were very tounge-in-cheek and offered some light relief and a change of pace from the much heavier stuff at the time.

Peter Parker also came to the fore as a character and there was huge drama/unpheaval in his personal life. Some really dark stuff involving Harry Osbourne and Gwen Stacy in particular.

As for Ross Andru's art, as others have said, he was truly underated and he added a much needed gritty realism to the title. I would rank him among the top 5 Spidey artist of all time.

[murph0]

I would chime in and say that I enjoyed just about every book between the start of the Bronze ASM run.. to the end.. but to be honest, there were a couple issues in the 160's, 170's, 180's and 190's that I didn't like..however if we're using CGC Modern submission requirements.. none of those issues fall under the Bronze Age

However, anyways.. I'd say there's at least 30-35 solid books (story-wise) in the ASM Bronze run.

 

Brian

[Darthdiesel]

Anyone missing Marvel Bronze Age titles nowadays can just turn to the Marvel MAX line and pick up a better revamp. Read Eternals, Cage, Fury, Howard The Duck, MOKF (was that MAX?)

[blowout]

MOKF (was that MAX?)

 

It was, but to say it was a BETTER revamp...Darth, thats sacrilege.

[Darthdiesel]

MOKF (was that MAX?)

 

It was, but to say it was a BETTER revamp...Darth, thats sacrilege.

 

Sorry, I'm of the camp that art and writing are better in Modern comics, but that is just my opinion. Gulacy was still involved in the MOKF MAX project too. He's had years to 'improve'...