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CGC deduction for a hairline spine split ...

Started by korax-migration,

27 posts in this topic

korax-migration

korax-migration

Posted
Posted

Hey All,

 

I've read and enjoyed this forum for a while, but here's my first post. Based on your experiences, how do you think CGC would treat the following: a copy of AVENGERS #100 which looks unread -- with a flat mirror-like cover and perfectly sharp edges and corners ... BUT has a hairline spine split on the bottom 3/4" of the cover. The split is so fine that I didn't even notice it for years -- but it does indeed go all the way through the cover.

 

So, assuming for the sake of argument the book was otherwise a 9.2 or higher -- how much of a deduction would the split likely cause? Automatic FINE? Obviously no one can predict with any certainty, but just based on your own submissions. Anyone?

 

Thanks all, great group.

Phil

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DiceX

DiceX

Posted
Posted

I'm not sure where CGC would place it.

But the new OS Grading Guide would put it into the Very Good 4.0 grade.

It is the highest to allow a spine split up to 1".

 

The VG/Fine 5.0 only allows up to 1/2".

 

Not any help, I'm sure. But it's a start.

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BachelorOfComix

BachelorOfComix

Posted
Posted
I hate to say it, but here goes (with a sheepish grin on my mug)...

 

Is it a P R O D U C T I O N split???

 

I ask, because if it's a production split, or can be blamed on the printer in any way whatsoever... CGC will still grade it NM 9.4 or better.

I've never heard of a production spine split. If such a thing exists, it would be far rarer than a production crease which is relatively more common among Silver & Bronze. Obviously, you like to hammer on CGC's grading method. Why?

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MrNice-migration

MrNice-migration

Posted
Posted

Obviously, you like to hammer on CGC's grading method

 

?????? confused.gif

 

In another thread, I posted a picture of a CGC 9.4 with a particularly nasty, very noticeable crease. I thought it amusing that a 9.4 could have a 3 inch long crease if it could be attributed to a production element, even though it looked nothing like your run of the mill printing fold or print line. It looked as though the book was vigorously creased at that point.

 

I thought this extremely contradictory to NM grading, regardless of whether the deep, flaked, wide, long ugly crease was a byproduct of the production or just general mishandling and wear and tear.

 

It was explained, basically, that there are good creases and bad creases. They're bad creases and you're supposed to detract from the overall grade only if they weren't put there by production. If they're production creases, you're supposed to ignore them...then they're "good" creases.

 

Jokingly, I made reference to a spine split only being a spine split if it can be attributed to wear or storage, because I would imagine that if it happened on the press, once again, you're supposed to ignore it, as if it does not exist and grade the book as if it weren't there.

 

So let me ask you a question Bachelor:

 

Why does CGC detract points for chips along the right edge of the comic??? Sure they're pieces missing from the comic but if this, "if it happened in production, ignore it" ideology is true, shouldn't it be true for all cases? Shouldn't we see alot more comics graded 9.4 and up with Marvel chips running along the edges?

 

Lastly, my apologies if you feel I insulted CGC for citing a double standard, or you for doing so in your mind. If I didn't ask these questions, I would never know that factory defects should be ignored in grading a comic.

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BachelorOfComix

BachelorOfComix

Posted
Posted

It's great you buy the book & not the label. I stress that all the time. Not all CGC 9.4s are created equal, but they're not all krap as some with an agenda would make it seem. Slabbed "double standards" are by far the exception rather than the norm. If you think otherwise, that is your prerogative to hammer on CGC's grading method. Kudos. sumo.gif

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dad-migration

dad-migration

Posted
Posted

Grading comic books is inherently subjective, and therefore will

always be a subject of controversy.

 

Having conceded that, I still believe CGC's system is flawed.

 

I pointed this out in a rather long, well-reasoned post:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=gradeandresto&Number=198826

 

I now have an additional concern.

 

The other day, I cracked open a CGC container on a book that

was described as having "white" pages. The pages were off-white. They

didn't even begin to compare to the books that I bought off the

rack (of the same age). The storage of my books was less than perfect, but they

are still white--not off-white.

 

Another CGC book I purchased was described as having "white

to off-white" pages. The pages in this book had undergone a marked

degree of darkening and aging.

 

How is it that CGC can be so exacting on their structural grading

and so lax on their assessment of aging detioration?

 

So far as I'm concerned, no book that does not have WHITE pages

is a near-mint, no matter how perfect the structure.

 

As I said before, it would be better if CGC corrected this situation

earlier instead of later. Right now, we have an entire community

of collectors and investors being misled. Some day, these people

who have 9.6 books with off-white pages will wake up and realize

that they have a less-than-desirable copy and the prices will collapse

the same way the price of Tulip bulbs collapsed in the year 1637.

 

 

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Tomega

Tomega

Posted
Posted
Hey All,

 

I've read and enjoyed this forum for a while, but here's my first post. Based on your experiences, how do you think CGC would treat the following: a copy of AVENGERS #100 which looks unread -- with a flat mirror-like cover and perfectly sharp edges and corners ... BUT has a hairline spine split on the bottom 3/4" of the cover. The split is so fine that I didn't even notice it for years -- but it does indeed go all the way through the cover.

 

So, assuming for the sake of argument the book was otherwise a 9.2 or higher -- how much of a deduction would the split likely cause? Automatic FINE? Obviously no one can predict with any certainty, but just based on your own submissions. Anyone?

 

Thanks all, great group.

Phil

 

If it is truly a 9.2 then it would pull a vf or vf-. I do not think CGC would automatically go to a low/ mid fine because there are not enough of other cumulative defects.

 

Tomega

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korax-migration

korax-migration

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Oops, I didn't mean for my thread to become a CGC vs non-CGC debate ... but there you go. Thanks to everyone who provided opinions. I think if this issue fell into the Modern service tier I would get it graded, even at the risk of wasting $15. But $30 is a little too steep for a less-than-popular $100 book that might draw a VF (which is my own guess for CGC's hypothetical grade).

 

And "production tear" ...? Hmm, it may be! grin.gif Looks like a miscalibrated cover wrapper to me. Anyone know what model number Marvel was using in the early 70's? I hear the ZX-7765 was WAY defective!

 

Phil

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Shield

Shield

Posted
Posted
Who cares what CGC would do? The first thing I do when I

receive a CGC-graded book is crack the holder open and

throw it away.

 

Does the book appeal to you? If so, keep it.

 

 

 

 

Dad I couldn't agree with you more. I've cracked open twice as many books as I've had graded. Free the books! Free the books!

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minutekev@50

minutekev@50

Posted
Posted
Who cares what CGC would do? The first thing I do when I

receive a CGC-graded book is crack the holder open and

throw it away.

 

Does the book appeal to you? If so, keep it.

 

 

 

 

Dad I couldn't agree with you more. I've cracked open twice as many books as I've had graded. Free the books! Free the books!

 

Let's form a posse, raid all the collectors' houses and crack their slabs!!! Let my people go!!! 27_laughing.gif

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