56K for first Superman and 83K for the reprint

[bluechip]

I guess we have a potential lead for that press release.

 

83K for a lower mid-grade Superman 1.

 

(while a similar graded Action 1 which looks far better and is the actual first appearance but also happens to be restored, goes for only 56K)

 

Did some bidder out there not know Superman 1 wasn't the first appearance?

 

Or did they buy into the notion that unrestored is better than anything, even better than being the actual first appearance instead of a reprint?

 

If it's the latter, give me their number. I have some 5.0 unrestored higher number Supermans (hey if first doesn't matter then neither should it matter whether it's 4th or 5th). And not onlly are they unrestored 5.0s but -- by virtue of not being "Nova Scotia" copies -- they look a lot better than that 5.0

[G.A.tor]

hello all..

yeah, pretty crazy prices...the NS supes copy sat on Clink for a while (and even went through their Nov auction), not making the cut, but on heritage, it did...

and, I was hoping to get that lower/mid grade restored "first" appearance copy for under $42500...that didn't happen (got blown out by $13K)...

c'est la vie...

rick

[CentaurMan]

I was the direct underbidder on the Action #1. I just wasn't going to let it go any cheaper than that, given what I paid for my restored copy and the offers I've received for it since. But to be honest, I really didn't need to spend that money on a 2nd copy, so things worked out.

[Aman619]

"gotta support your team."

 

its an uncomfortable position, to be into a book for x and see another copy ready to hammer down at 'less than x'.... double up? or watch it happen and say (repeatedly) "One sale does not a market make.". Of course the middle option you took by gambling by making that one last bid and hope not to get snagged is the best you could hope for, short of a miracle hot bidder at 2x at the last second.

 

cheers.

[bluechip]

"gotta support your team."

 

its an uncomfortable position, to be into a book for x and see another copy ready to hammer down at 'less than x'.... double up? or watch it happen and say (repeatedly) "One sale does not a market make.". Of course the middle option you took by gambling by making that one last bid and hope not to get snagged is the best you could hope for, short of a miracle hot bidder at 2x at the last second.

 

cheers.

 

I've bid on things I already that were going low and it's worrked both ways -- got outbid and lost it but also got snagged, as you say. But when it was a major book that I knew was underpriced, I was able to turn it around, sometimes for more than i;d originally thought. Sometimes I've turned it around for a small profit only to see it flipped again fror much more to somebody who you'd think could've simply bid on it in the first place.

 

Re: One sale does not a market make. Good point. If only there was a market guide that really guaged the market and the values,. attempted to be free of undue influence and was updated more than once a year....

[Aman619]

well, theres constant research to see whats what. But you never know when someone will pop for a record price for whatever reason...So its never gonna be possible to have a value record as up to date and liquid as say Wall St.

[thedude]

56K for first Superman and 83K for the reprint

 

ah yes, but don't forget, that reprint has a new two page origin..

[showcase4]

I guess we have a potential lead for that press release.

 

83K for a lower mid-grade Superman 1.

 

(while a similar graded Action 1 which looks far better and is the actual first appearance but also happens to be restored, goes for only 56K)

 

Did some bidder out there not know Superman 1 wasn't the first appearance?

 

Or did they buy into the notion that unrestored is better than anything, even better than being the actual first appearance instead of a reprint?

 

If it's the latter, give me their number. I have some 5.0 unrestored higher number Supermans (hey if first doesn't matter then neither should it matter whether it's 4th or 5th). And not onlly are they unrestored 5.0s but -- by virtue of not being "Nova Scotia" copies -- they look a lot better than that 5.0

 

Bob, I am not suprised at all at the prices on these 2 books:

Action #1 5.0 restored $56k

Supes #1 5.0 unrestored $83k

 

I believe you are being a little hard on Superman #1 , with the reference to it as the "reprint". It is one of the biggest and most important keys in the entire comic book world. Addtionally, the fact that it is unrestored adds a very handsome premium to its value and desirability. From reading your opening comments, it sounds like you believe its nuts that the Supes went for 1.5 times as much as the Action 1......but this is a sign of the importance of restored vs. unrestored in todays market.

 

If I were in a position to buy either book and had to pick one, I would be more interested in the Supes @ $83k then the Action @ $56k.( They are both wonderful books though )

I am confident the buyer of the Supes knows exactly what he's doing and what he's getting, and I think he made a great and sound purchase.

I hope my comments do not start another resto flair up....just sharing a differing opnion with you to contemplate.

[action1kid]

I do not agree. There was no question in my mind that a 5.0 unrestored Superman #1 is worth consideribly more than a restored Action #1.No question at all.I can honestly say that 83k is exactly where I would expect a 5.0 Superman #1 to fall in, This figure is supported in my mind by the 5.5 esquirer sale for 130k and an unreported 6.5 unrestored sale for 125k. The 7.5 sale 3 years ago at 275k [3 years] ago also supports this .I admit the book has an ugly spine but it got a 5.0 because the rest of the book is so nice[pedigree status helps too, but 83k is the books fair market value in my mind with no question.

 

The Action 1 at 56k is more than i thought and does relect at least an improvement

unrestored prices.But no way is it worth as much as the Sup #1 !

[action1kid]

I do not agree. There was no question in my mind that a 5.0 unrestored Superman #1 is worth consideribly more than a restored Action #1.No question at all.I can honestly say that 83k is exactly where I would expect a 5.0 Superman #1 to fall in, This figure is supported in my mind by the 5.5 esquirer sale for 130k and an unreported 6.5 unrestored sale for 125k. The 7.5 sale 3 years ago at 275k [3 years] ago also supports this .I admit the book has an ugly spine but it got a 5.0 because the rest of the book is so nice[pedigree status helps too, but 83k is the books fair market value in my mind with no question.

 

The Action 1 at 56k is more than i thought and does relect at least an improvement

unrestored prices.But no way is it worth as much as the Sup #1 !

 

In reference to the above. On the contrary, the buyers where obviously very knowledible. The numbers all fell where they should have. Nobody overpaid here.They all did well for a change and paid there true market values for these books which are naturally not relected in the Overstreet guide.

[bluechip]

showcase and action1kid, a couple things about the restored action 1 v unrestored superman 1.

 

first is that the superman 1 is important and that there are people out there who think it's the first superman. And even if they know it's not it still feels like it's the first to many people. Second is that a person "knowing what they're doing" when they buy a book doesn't mean that what he knows is a good thing. Sometimres when people make buys it's because they know the market's being manipulated. . Not necessarily the case here or in any given instance, but worth keeping in mind.

 

Finally, the grading on the two books appears completely foigen. If you look at both books they are both supposed to be equal in appearance. They are not. The CGC standard is purportedly telling you that the action 1 was restored to look as good as the superman 1 supposedly looks and that is just flat wrong. The action 1 appears much better. Sure there may be hidden defects but what about the non-hidden ones in the superman 1??? I'll take this one step further by pointing out that in my experience, the way CGC grades restoration, the Action 1 could have started out looking just like the Superman 1, and with the improvements made to make it look as it does, it would have gotten a an extensive restored grade. This is not just the market at play, here. What's at play is huge inconsistencies in grading and service heavily wegithed toward creating opinions. Is it worth menttioning that the Nova Scotia collection has been of particular and personal interest to a founder of CGC? And that it simply isn't possible for a person (or his employees) not to be influenced by that (even uintentionally). Is it possible they can ignore their attitude (or their employers') avowed discrimination against restored books? I cannot speak for what goes on in their heads,but if you put those two books side by side, and look at how they were graded, you cannot help but think the information provided is not completely pure of some degree of influence, interest or prejudice. As stated and repeated here -- it may be completely involuntary. But it's Impure information and that makes for an impure market,

[ft88]

The extensive restoration just kills it for me on an Action #1 - it screams frankenbook. With both types of books available in reasonable number, its the unrestored copies that are impressive. Superman 1 is probably the 4th best comic to own, having it unrestored is a knockout and worth the 50% premium over the Action 1.

[CentaurMan]

FWIW, I called for the graders' notes on the Action #1 and there were no hidden defects listed.

[CentaurMan]

Also, there was a 3rd bidder exactly one increment below me on the Action #1 (I barely cleared him with my late bid), so I feel pretty comfortable with market value for a nice-but-heavily-restored Action #1 in the mid-$50,000's.

[bluechip]

The extensive restoration just kills it for me on an Action #1 - it screams frankenbook. With both types of books available in reasonable number, its the unrestored copies that are impressive. Superman 1 is probably the 4th best comic to own, having it unrestored is a knockout and worth the 50% premium over the Action 1.

 

Not to denigrate superman 1, but first most important comic is one thing. And fourth most important is quite another.

 

As to the frankenbook remark -- That;'s just it!

 

If it's a frankenbook -- with fake pieces of art created and grafted onto missing chunks of the cover, that would be one thing.

 

But "extensive restoration" doesn't necessarily mean that.

 

It could just be a book that was complete and presentable but had a number of tear seals. It is so easy to get the extensive restored label that people end up feeling there's no point in limiting the amount of restoration you do. You may as well go all the way. You may as well create a frankenbook, because it will be treated just as well as a book that started out much better.

 

And when you see how they grade restored books it seems like there's an agenda to refuse to say they look decent. As if attempting to punish you for making it look better, they insist on saying it doesn't even look as good as it does.

 

Again, it's ultimately not about values or even opinions, but about opinions and self-interest leading to impure information. Keep the information pure, and the market will take care of itself. Perhaps if you knew what was really done to the action 1, you might not feel it screamed frankenbook. And perhaps if it was in fact a fraknenbook, then you'd know what there was about it which made it realluy different from the last restored one that sold on heritage (or anywhere), instead of relying on labels that are either vague or downright inconsistent.

[bluechip]

Also, there was a 3rd bidder exactly one increment below me on the Action #1 (I barely cleared him with my late bid), so I feel pretty comfortable with market value for a nice-but-heavily-restored Action #1 in the mid-$50,000's.

 

Everybody who bid on that book, including myself, knew that it was listed with a so-called "good" price of 39K. And they knew that if they should ever have to sell it, their potential buyers would also be refernecing and guided by the same fiictitous listing.

[CentaurMan]

Actually, I didn't know what "guide" was on the book, and I don't look at that piece of the auction description. I haven't bought a guide in like 7 years, and I don't where that copy is (probably in a box from my last move). Guide just screws me up.

[bluechip]

Actually, I didn't know what "guide" was on the book, and I don't look at that piece of the auction description. I haven't bought a guide in like 7 years, and I don't where that copy is (probably in a box from my last move). Guide just screws me up.

 

I applaud you, sir.

 

[ft88]

Simply based on the scan it looks like the entire spine was reconstructed, at the very least the corners of the spine definitely were done over. This means that the book was probably no better than a Good prior to work done. A cleaned cover is also a big problem for me as its irreversible. It has the same feel as a coin thats been polished - it's a stay away strike.

 

I just know that if we played the "which would you rather have" game, I'd take the (somewhat overgraded) Superman #1 that is unrestored. At least I have a pretty decent chance that this book wasn't sitting in front of Susan C. with staples removed pages seperated and a chemical bath nearby.

 

Bottom line there is a stigm to restored books and a huge one for Extensive work done. Once pieces are added and a cover is cleaned I'd steer away regardless. Based on the prices bid, the buying market tends to agree.

 

We may not like or agree with what the market is telling us but reality is staring at us straight in the face. Unrestored > Restored by heavy multiples. 9.2+ > 9.0- by multiples. Its the world we live in.

[bluechip]

I can appreciate anybody having an aversion just to knowing a book was once opened with staples removed. What you care for versus what you don't is your own business.

 

But does it make sense for a service to pride itself on evaluating books and charge for it, then put it in a slab so nothing can happen after they've done their thorough screaning ------ and then you, as a potential buyer or even just interested observer, are still having to GUESS whether the spine was rebuilt based on what it looks like??

 

Is the CGC about providing unbiased and agenda-frree information or not?

 

My concern is not for what people may think based on the info. That I am happy to leave to the market. I am concerned entirely about the misinformation and inconsistency. And impure info with an agenda is not something I'm comfortable shrugging off.

 

These two books are supposedly equal in apparent grade?